All Topics / General Property / Avoid the property Investing rip

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  • Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
    Keymaster
    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 1,763

    Hi,

    Please use this thread to discuss or post comments about the ‘Property Investing rip’ as featured in the November edition of Insider (which will be sent out over the next few days).

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of AUSPROPAUSPROP
    Participant
    @ausprop
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 953

    first it was interest rates must rise due to booming conditions, now it seems things are rapidly coming off of the boil. From todays AFR:


    “Taken together, the numbers suggested to most market economists that the RBA is highly unlikely to act on its long-declared threat to raise interest rates further, while the forward-looking futures market thinks a cut is in the cards.

    “They are shocking numbers and point to downside risks to growth next year,” said TD Securities strategist Stephen Koukoulas. “At the least it means there is absolutely zero chance of the RBA raising rates.””

    Confusing signals!



    Extensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.

    John – 0419 198 856

    Profile photo of scotty3scotty3
    Member
    @scotty3
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 54

    I watch what they banks offer with fixed interest rates – they don’t get it wrong too often. Right now, that would suggest there is still some breathing space before any great interest rate hikes- though they have to come some time, so there’s no room for compacency!

    Cheers,
    scotty3

    Profile photo of AUSPROPAUSPROP
    Participant
    @ausprop
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 953

    actually I don’t know the exact ins and outs of this but I believe the banks couldn’t care less about where interest rates are going (from the point of view of pricing fixed rates) – they just raise the money fromn the bond market and add a margin to it. Can anyone confirm if this line of thinking is correct?



    Extensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.

    John – 0419 198 856

    Profile photo of shaunwalkershaunwalker
    Member
    @shaunwalker
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 403

    personally i just dont know about this “rip”
    part of me says to form an opionion and stick to it, my gut instincs tell me to wait and see.
    so wait and see it is. with all the mish mash of information out there at the moment its hard to tell what to believe. i have however figured this much out.
    CG will be slow for a while (several years?)
    go for cashflow that makes you money from day one, add value and hold (unless you get a good offer).
    triple check all your numbers, make sure that they are up to date, not last years numbers. this means more time on the ground getting a clear understanding of whats actually happening compared to what the agents are saying.
    make up a business plan, and work out the worst scenario you can think of, that way should it happen you will (should?) be ok.
    consolidate your loans, add value to your property where you can, make sure you have a good cash reserve “just in case”
    if the rip gets you unexpectantly at least you will be as prepared as possible. remain unaware of it, and it may be too late to do anything.
    just my thoughts.
    cheers all
    shaun

    Lead, Follow or get out of the bloody way

    Profile photo of milzymilzy
    Member
    @milzy
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 9

    High guys
    Whilst reading what you have written I do agree that there are some conflicting results with regard to market indicators. The conflicting results in my opinion are mostly in the news papers and TV. Steves book is pretty clear, the book written by Olly Newland regarding the economic clock is very clear cut. There is the book called the “barefoot investor”- all are talking of market turning. The “rip” to me are those real estate agents playing the market down to investors who are new or inexperienced. The best gains will be clinched by those who are cashed up ready to make great purchases from the downturn. The market correction that is coming I believe will affect each state differently, NSW and Victoria being the hardest felt. WA has huge projects and industrial investments about to kick off and even though there will be a correction (my oppinion) I feel only those who have over extended themselves in borrowings will feel the pinch.

    I am not an expert , I wish I was. My research indicates some conflicting results regarding market indicators. However the nuts and bolts of it all I conclude that the market is turning and it will be to the benefit of those who are on top of the game to capitalise on this.

    Take care
    Milzy
    ps-I am cashing up (probably should have 3 months ago already) and I will be reinvesting straight into POS Cashflow through Steve’s X by / strategy bearing in mind the interest rates and worst case scenarios.[cigar]

    Profile photo of redwingredwing
    Participant
    @redwing
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,733

    The Barefoot Investor [biggrin]

    Had a quick ‘flick’ through the book whilst Christmas Shopping…nothing New apart from photo’s of todays Film stars etc(Will SMITH etc) in the book to try and entice the younger crowd.. i’d rate it pretty low..

    If rates go up or down at this stage doesn’t worry me as our loans are fixed, rents have again increased and equity is still growing, IP’s are Nuetral.

    And i’ve just been consolidating things and sorting out things ready for the next purchase when the timing is right.

    My foray into the stockmarket some time back has proved fruitfull and i’m learning from the site at aussiestockforums.

    2005 should be a good year [inlove]

    REDWING

    “Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
    Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow Calculator

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
    Member
    @robbie-b
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 2,493
    Originally posted by scotty3:

    I watch what they banks offer with fixed interest rates – they don’t get it wrong too often. Right now, that would suggest there is still some breathing space before any great interest rate hikes- though they have to come some time, so there’s no room for compacency!

    Cheers,
    scotty3

    Why do you believe that interest rate increases “have to come some time”?

    Has everyone forgotten that rates have come down over the years and were cheaper than they are now not so long ago?

    With the Reserve Bank inflation rate targets being a relatively new thing, is there really any reason for interest rates to sky-rocket again? (unless Labour wins an election of course! hehehe)

    Have a look at the CASH RATE since January 1990 and you decide.

    Robert Bou-Hamdan
    Mortgage Adviser

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    Comments made are of a general nature and should not be construed as individual advice.
    © 2004 Mortgage Packaging Pty Ltd

    Profile photo of obiwanobiwan
    Member
    @obiwan
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 75

    the bond market indicates that rates will stay flat or go down next year. They are usually right. This indicates the expectation of a slowdown. The yield curve is very flat at the moment but not inverted so I don’t think anyone is expecting a recession (yet).

    The big unknown is where US rates will go as it is hard to see how we can attract capital to pay fo a CAD with lower rates that them. The price of US treasuries seems to have topped out and is possibly going down (ie yield going up). The cash rate is set by the RBA/fed reserve, but they only control the short end. Look at the 10 year notes to figure out what the market expects.

    If the chinese revalue the yuan due to inflationary pressures, it is likely interest rates will rise globally. It is more a case of not if but when. They will keep the yuan pegged until it burns out their economy. The mercantilist model is to have low interest rates and accumulate foreign currency/ assets. To this extent the chinese have been successful in lending the US debt, selling consumer goods to them and buying the farm. Unfortunately in every case in the past of this – result has been inflation in the foreign country followed by asset bubble and crash. Same happened with Japan, emerging asian countries. If it happens in China we will see 1) inflation in China 2) USD collapse 3) higher rates in US and globally 4) recession in non asian countries initally then elsewhere : the US is currently only allowed to devalue against every other country except the one it needs to (china). Hence the european and floated asian economies will really bleed until the chinese revalue the yuan. Higher growth in US than elsewhere, eventual collapse in China.

    The situation we currently have of a develloping country having a current account mega surplus (china) and a developed country with developing country CAD (US) is unusual. It is also inefficient, capital should be going to china to fund investment rather than to the US to fund housing and consumption (also applies to australia). I think it is an unstable situation. It would not surprise me if this was the turning point of the interest rate cycle.

    We either go to inflation from here or deflation. Neither is very positive for asset markets. But then people have been thinking this for ages so who knows how long it will take to pan out.

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
    Member
    @robbie-b
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 2,493

    Obiwan,

    So basically, you believe interest rates will decrease or remain steady?

    Robert Bou-Hamdan
    Mortgage Adviser

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    http://www.mortgagepackaging.com.au

    FREE Finance-Related Newsletter – Click Here

    Comments made are of a general nature and should not be construed as individual advice.
    © 2004 Mortgage Packaging Pty Ltd

    Profile photo of obiwanobiwan
    Member
    @obiwan
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 75

    I think they will go down or nowhere in the next 12 months but when Chinese inflation rockets and they revalue the yuan in the next 2-5 years rates will probably increase significantly.

    Consumers are very levered and account for 2/3rds of economic growth. The RBA is aware that the economy is very sensitive to rate hikes and presumably would not shift the short end up any further unless forced to (by an external shock). They may even reduce rates if growth has tanked due to the small hikes we have seen.

    This is just my opinion. A stagnant rate environment or small cut would also suck out all the residual buyers in the property market and set the scene for a correction.

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