No, it’s not the boy who ate his own foot in a fridge and died, only to thaw out years later to discover that due to his unethical shares (which against ‘some forum users better judgment’) he purchased in a “Chinese Biotech Cryogenetic” company made him a massive capital gain in future dollars!! My problem is different. My property manager has really done nothing to manage my IP over the past four years. I had to go over to the property recently and I met the tennants who were lovely and told me that when they first moved in they had to take a day off work to clean the crap off the walls (stains, etc.) I’ve just also found out that my property manager has blatantly lied to me when I asked her if a property valuer had contacted her as I am currently refinancing. Once again my good friend and broker Steve went and chased everything up and sorted the mess out (refer to Toga Party Post) This delay could have cost me/someone a property loss. My question is do I tell her in a polite way she’s sacked or can I after screening for a new property manager let them deal with it? Any suggestions, advice or even crappy jokes like mine would be most appreciated.
Gatsby.MonopolyMember@monopolyJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 1,612
Either way is fine; depends on whether you want the “pleasure” of telling her to her face that her services are no longer required, or you can ask your new (once selected) PM to organise the handing over of keys, info etc relating to the property from “ex” PM.
Been there before!!! Good luck with your new PM; hopefully he or she will do a better job than the last (put it this way, they couldn’t do any worse, right?????) [blink]
JoDerekMember@derekJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 3,544
Read your property management agreement to see what is involved in ‘sacking your PM’ there may be some conditioons attached. I receommend a call to your state REI to see where you stand. Be aware soem PM agreements have a little clause stating they will receive their due management fees for the remainder of the lease even if you sack them – needless to say I delete this one.
Once you get all the information required then do ahead and sack them.
Recommend you do this all in writing to make sure you are clear.
I would also question (in a polite way) how much managememt of your PM have you done.
It would seem to me that you needed to get a little more involved as you may well have picked up the poor service.
Whenever we receive an inspection report we compare this with the previous and get in touch with the PM to discuss any differences and/or similarities. This way the PM knows I am checking their work too.
Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.
You can sack her if you like, but it seems like some responses to you are about taking the pleasure in sacking someone, rather than dealing with the issues of the poor property management (possibly the investors see sacking people as a fun power trip?) From your post, it seems like you don’t have much engagement with the PM. Can you have a long phone conversation with her and tell her what your expectations are? I think PM’s deal with so many *types* of investors, that sometimes they are not sure about our expectations. Given that your PM has been looking after your property for 4 years, perhaps there needs to be a conversation with her to refresh her about your needs. I think most people are amenable to such things. Express your current concerns and your disappointment, and then see how she responds. If she’s defensive, then it may be that the problems will never be resolved, because she might be unlikely to take responsibility for future problems.
I just don’t see the fun in sacking someone. I think mostly that relationships and expectations can be sorted out between people.
If you do feel a need to use a different PM, then I’m sure you’ll treat your ex-pm respectfully when you let her know.
Dear Jo, Derek and Kay,
Thanks for your replies. As Julius Caesar once said to Brutus, “The fault dear Brutus, Lies not in our Stars,
But within ourselves”.
I should have been more diligent from the word go. But as I have gained more momentum from this site, etc, I continue to learn. I don’t see any benefit in exspousing the flaws in the PM, as her faults as a PM are a reflection on my failures as a landlord (hate that word!). None the less all your points are valid and rather than give her a serve or leave her high and dry and let my new PM take over, I think it’s more prudent to actually make an appointment and sit down with her and discuss where I’ve felt dissatisfied with the service and offer some constructive criticism on how I feel things can be improved in the future for herself, myself and above all, the tennant. I don’t feel there’s anything to be gained by adding animosity into the equation. If I get into ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ scenario then it just drops down to a no win all round situation. Hopefully she will come out of it with a better understanding and service for the next landord on her books as a result and I will hopefully have learned by my lack of being more involved in the responsibilty of PI. Thanks again for the melting pot of ideas.
Gatsby.glenettiMember@glenettiJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 44
I’m interested in hearing the general opinion on this issue of poor PMs in general. Being on foreign shores, I’m intrigued that in the first world economy of Oz there seems to be a problem with PMs, or am I mistaken because we only hear of the complaints.
I have my own poor PM problems here and it is a case of the better the devil you know. I was a PM myself for 8 months and was not too good at it, so left.
So,….. some of my queries are:
Are PMs in general bad? If so, why?
Do investors have too high or differing expectations?
If good PMs are in short supply, surely a market exists for good PMs? So then why is that market gap not being satisfied?
How many folks are there that are happy with their PMs? Any praise and happy stories?
Perhaps there are some PMs out there who could enlighten us on their problems with service delivery?
Looking forward to many opinions on this one…
GlennDDMember@ddJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 508
Gatsby, i had a similar problem. Selling a house srecently that also had a pool the then managers told me everything was ok.
I took their word for it until trying to sell it thru a real estate closer to the property for other reasons, I was told the pool was green, the lawns were not mowed and it looked untidy. Add to this a waft of stale cat food on opening the laundry door, needless to say selling was difficult. Several “what the hell is going on” messages later I realised that 2 staff changes had left me with an “I dont care” managerial approach which had to stop.
Recently up there on business I negotiated with another agent for management, gave them my 9 Ip’s to manage, then walked into the other real estate and told them to give the keys to the new guys when they called.
I gave my reasons face to face and always do things this way as it is only fair so hopefully they can deal with the problems in future. They had several small incidents like not passing on urgent messages to others in the office, and on the sales side as well the main agent that all of my clients I had been comfortable to refer people onto due to his professionalism, had misteriously disappeared from the office too.
These sorts of things lost my confidence and now I’m with another agent. It is not a blind decision though, they had already managed one of my properties for a year.
Don’t sweat the small stuff,and it’s all small stuff!!
You asked about the experience of PM’s. I see PM’s as like any other profession- sometimes people make mistakes. I imagine it’s a really hard profession- what if tenants don’t pay rent? It’s hard to get blood out of a stone. Sometimes tenants have been known to trash places. I don’t see this as the fault of PM’s- it is just events that happen. PM’s are not only sometimes dealing with difficult tenants- they are also dealing with difficult landlords. PM’s probably have no better or no worse conflict resolution skills than we might have ourselves- go figure, they’re only human.
I have had mistakes made by PM’s, but I have also had them made by accountants, solicitors, banks, and – you name it- everyone makes mistakes! Usually, these can be fixed up with a phone call, and a bit of calm… The day I expect RE to be “set and forget” is the day when I forget that RE is all about humans, with all our foibles.
I like to maintain good relationships with my PM’s, but I don’t want to hear from them that often- because the only time you hear from them, there’s something wrong.
But I still think they are dealing with two often *difficult* client groups- tenants and owners- I think I’ll keep my day job [biggrin]
kay henryglenettiMember@glenettiJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 44
I think you put your finger on it, Kay.
This is exactly why I only lasted 8 months as a PM. I tried really hard, but dealing with the “public” and being between owners and tenants – both complaining, was tough. Good experience gained though.
The tenants felt the rent was too high, the place needed renovation, paid late. The owners needed their money yesterday, tenants trashing the place, expecting PM to be a handyman too etc.
You need a really thick skin to be a PM. However, a good PM will do well.
Kay I think your quite right. I guess the best analogy of a PM is the meat (or vegie burger) between the sandwich. You’ve got the tenants on one side at times possibly complaining about a problem, while on the other side they have the landlord demanding (‘I’m paying you to deal with it, etc.). The best property managers I’ve had only lasted with me for a year at best. Maybe they saw the light? Also Kay do you know where PropertyGuru is? I finally got the guts up and emailed my photo a week ago for the gallery. I thought, what the hell what I look like. At least people can get an image of who they’re posting to.
I think PG is still overseas. He pops around occasionally, and I’m sure he’ll put your pic up as soon as he gets it :o)
PGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! Come back- we miss you!!
kay henrysalaciousMember@salaciousJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 373
Great idea sack the wench. If you dont do the job properly dont do it at all.Buisness is buisness
Dom[biggrin]FixitMember@fixitJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 20
Sounds like you need to manage your manager. I see them basically as contractors. They take your hard earned and in return they are supposed to provide a service. You have every right to expect them to properly do the job for which they are being paid.
In my role as a commercial property maintenance manager, I have found that Communication is the key. A good regular two way flow of honest communication usually works well and lets the contractor, in this case the PM, know that you as the client have an active interest and that they are not just running their own race.
You need to clearly define your expectations and requirements, (albeit they should already have a fair idea) and also encourage the PM to provide essential and timely feedback so that any potential issues can be nipped in the bud.
It can be beneficial to foster a “strategic partnership” type relationship. As others have said, PMs are the meat in the sandwich (or vegie burger)and we are all are only human,(including PMs – they too have feelings) so if they feel that they can have a good relationship with the landlord, without unnecessary grief, they are more likely to do a better job for you.
It’s all about managing people.
RonthecrestParticipant@thecrestJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 992
Been a PM, it’s a tough spot between the rock and the hard thing. Licencees are reluctant to overstaff in this area, but demand regular increases in total managements, so PMs are usually stretched, and on a treadmill. I would hesitate to place a property in a PM’s hands where the property ratio to personnel exceeded 140:1. Ask them how many staff and how many properties they manage.
Better to retire your PM gracefully I believe.
The end result is the same and your new PM will see how you do business, and respond accordingly.
Less hassle to ask the new PM to make all the arrangements, starting with a copy of your existing managing agency agreement, you can be sure the new PM will enforce the earliest transfer possible. Hope you get a good one. good luck
crest133SonjaMember@sonjaJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 338
I only have one IP and guess that I’m very fortunate at the PM team (two people) that look after it are fantastic. We have been with them for about 4 years and they are like friends.
As we live about 6 hrs away they send us photos with their inspection reports. With the monthly statement they send us a newsletter updating us on their office, the local RE market in their area and with the most recent one also an outline of the effects that the NSW mimi budget will have on their landlords. These people go way above and beyond their call of duty.
Like I said, they are the first and only PMs that I have dealt with as a landlord (yes I do hate that word too – does anyone have an alternative?) and I assumed that this was normal. From now on I think that I’d better let them know how much I appreciate them!
SonjaCeliviaParticipant@celiviaJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 886
I ring my property manager about once a month- just for a short chat. I don’t like the idea of only ringing them if there’s a problem or something to complain about. I ring them just for no reason other than to say hello. They always sound very happy to talk.prattmanMember@prattmanJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 3
We had a fantastic PM, who burned out after about a year. She handled everything, and we spoke once a month. She told us as she was leaving that she was just too tired of being abused from all sides. She also said thanks for not being ‘one of the usual landlords’. Her replacement is still learning how to push the buttons on the phone… [blink] We are sadly looking at moving to a different PM.freedom5Member@freedom5Join Date: 2003Post Count: 10
I have 2 PM in NZ. Both in the same town, but managing properties in different towns. The 1st one I have had for quite a while and has finally realised that I need more information from her than just letting things slide until something goes wrong. But I also have quite a good relationship with my tennant.
The other 1 I have only had for approx 18 months, and she has a long way to go to meet my expectations, which I was quite plain about when signing up with her.
However, I rent myself in Aussie and find that both of my PM’s are far and above anything that I have had to deal with over here (3 different ones/companies so far). But on the other side of that, the landlords dont tend to take any interest until something has fallen over also, and thereby they are forced into paying for something that should have been done a long time ago to keep the tennant hapy (mainly me, lol).
I like to keep my finger in so that nothing goes astray and I dont lose good tennants, but it also keeps the PM on her toes. It doesnt take much to keep good tennants happy.
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