PropertyInvesting.com | Investors Zorba | Activity https://www.propertyinvesting.com/members/investors-zorba/activity/ Activity feed for Investors Zorba. Tue, 14 Apr 2026 21:21:44 +0000 https://buddypress.org/?v=2.8.1 en-US 30 hourly 2 8461aaf531fde43758702b5b67827aeb Investors Zorba replied to the topic Flooding and the affect on House Prices in the forum General Property https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4402436-flooding-and-the-affect-on-house-prices/#post-4639550 Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:34:35 +0000 Courtesy of Your Property Investor Forum:Property valuation in flood-ravaged areas to be permanently lowered: Fitch17/01/2011While the full extent of the damage is yet to be quantified, Fitch Ratings said the flood currently affecting South East Queensland is expected to have a negative impact on mortgage borrowers.The ratings agency noted that…[Read more]

]]> 7978c9d6fce7e7a48fe88fe8311f1b69 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Gladstone in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4402157-gladstone-3/#post-4637952 Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:39:15 +0000 Has  gladstone got flood history. also what is gladstone's cyclone history?

]]> d099eb770afc92f5887876f35d894f4e Investors Zorba replied to the topic Which City/Suburb you live? in the forum Forum Frolic https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4369744-which-citysuburb-you-live/page/17/#post-4442525 Fri, 08 Oct 2010 01:32:13 +0000 Best area in australia – East Freo(WA)

]]> 56b36b42d7602e0427dc67f996ced754 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Accountant in Perth in the forum LIlian fisher at chan & https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4400942-accountant-in-perth-4/#post-4630270 Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:56:46 +0000 LIlian fisher at chan & naylor hay st east perth

]]> 88416f29268faa005fa9ff8582bcbcfa Investors Zorba replied to the topic RBA trying to manipulate property markets? in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399360-rba-trying-to-manipulate-property-markets/#post-4620995 Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:51:11 +0000 DW you're on the money about the"keeps the construction industry going too". I think you'll find when the economy is humming along so is the "home building industry." If the RBA is going to keep rates climbing then obviously the amount of people borrowing will diminish ie less houses being contructed.

]]> 9c55cec49cccc1f58811d33fbc372613 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Tarneit - Melbourne in the forum General Property https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399346-tarneit-melbourne/#post-4620852 Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:42:15 +0000 people spruiking caroline springs and west  melton as "good" investments for rentals as wellthoughts?

]]> 3b082d4993a9876a15e6a4e221a1ffec Investors Zorba replied to the topic Recently Divorced, how do I rebuild with $100K? in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399274-recently-divorced-how-do-i-rebuild-with-100k/#post-4620381 Sat, 27 Mar 2010 12:19:40 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
Buying 3-4 properties worth 100K is financial suicide even if they are positive cash flow today.Firstly at those prices financing them would be difficult and remember even property you buy irrespective of the yield will reduce your borrowing capacity.Keep some of your funds back for contingency or maintainance, vacancy etc and…[Read more]

]]> cffc6310a4f851bcbe368a512ded25e5 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Should I buy 1st IP under my personel name? in the forum MichaelGG wrote:Dan, Thanks https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399147-should-i-buy-1st-ip-under-my-personel-name/#post-4619477 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:52:59 +0000 MichaelGG wrote:
Dan,Thanks a lot for clarifying your previous reply. I found it really helped me.Ryan,Love to read your posts. learnt many things from your other threads. ThanksBTW, I think i will set up an appropriate structure before the 1st IP.Number 8,I think the property investment trust (PIT) can distribute losses. I am still struggling…[Read more]

]]> c7cdb3c64040c0897c84012e43d9dca6 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Asset Protection loooong term!!!! IS a trust the way to go? in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399128-asset-protection-loooong-term-is-a-trust-the-way-to-go/page/2/#post-4619383 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:50:00 +0000 Terryw wrote:
ChizUnits and hybrids technically also quarantine losses. ie losses from a trust cannot be used to offset personal income (A trust is a different entity for tax). But a way around this is where an individual borrows money to buy the units in the trust and the individual claims the interest on this loan.

CHIZ i have purchased a…[Read more]

]]> 902ec9330b940893f2211ec226064648 Investors Zorba replied to the topic 100% offset account- clarification in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399120-100-offset-account-clarification/#post-4619334 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:28:53 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
I would have an interest only loan even if the loan was for owner occupation.

Why? I thought conventional wisdom suggests one tries to "own"   their PPOR.

]]> 3c7ed3ff0e5cb081f4229be1e3d58604 Investors Zorba replied to the topic 100% offset account- clarification in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399120-100-offset-account-clarification/#post-4619332 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:56:07 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
Hi IZYes to both but of course you wouldn't have one where you still have some non deductible debt.

So if you have a PPOR with an P&I loan but have to rent it out because you have moved to a regional centre due to a promotion and you are sure you won't be living back in this house BUT won't be selling it so……..you convert the…[Read more]

]]> 48adba1470155a906e3a5a04228390da Investors Zorba replied to the topic New to PI in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399063-new-to-pi-2/#post-4618974 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:01:50 +0000 another thing to consider is your appetite for risk. If you can't sleep at nite worrying about the debt you have on your IP(s)then forget it.

]]> 5118875a30394132b5fb4fabecfa022e Investors Zorba replied to the topic New to PI in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4399063-new-to-pi-2/#post-4618971 Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:49:28 +0000 deb2010 wrote:
Tempted as I am to answer that with a facetious reply, I shall keep to the intended purpose of the forum. In your professioanl capacity, when would be the time to contact a Broker? I have a P&I loan over my PPOR with one of the 4 big banks and assumed that I would approach them first for an invesment loan. (Pre approval had been…[Read more]

]]> 3a09b314e3eb0b842dab5a87a0ac739d Investors Zorba replied to the topic Multi Property Finance problem in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398731-multi-property-finance-problem/#post-4616797 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:30:01 +0000 kkatlea wrote:
Does anyone a good broker they could recommend in Perth?

Yes please!!  very frustrated in trying to grow portfolio.

]]> ad2b8f6f28357c59682587795254f9fc Investors Zorba replied to the topic Benefits of Cross Collateralising in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398989-benefits-of-cross-collateralising/#post-4618455 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 06:41:45 +0000 Two interesting articles in "your investment property" June 2009 on this topic. one article  from Bill Zheng founder of Investors Direct why punters should reconsider Cross- Collateralisation.second article was from an investor (Rob williams) who had hit the "servicibility wall" and need to do it to get a deal done.

]]> a6039e483e7b824a579a500c90d36172 Investors Zorba replied to the topic How to get the finance and accounts setup right? in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398961-how-to-get-the-finance-and-accounts-setup-right/#post-4618222 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 06:25:40 +0000 Terryw wrote:
1. Tax benefits depend on the use of the property and not the security.2. Yes. You could make some improvements and save more tax.3. You would need a few different ones. IO for the investment, IO/PI for the main residence with a 100% offset account attached. An interest free credit card with points and a LOC for spare equity on the…[Read more]

]]> 6c60c8dfd9feac5f977d841ffec0ae60 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Which are the best growth location in Sydney to buy first home under $400,000 in the forum General Property https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398821-which-are-the-best-growth-location-in-sydney-to-buy-first-home-under-400000/#post-4617421 Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:48:30 +0000 shahabr wrote:
also if you are looking for good yield worth looking at lakemba, you can still get units for around the 250k mark with a pretty good return.  i read somewhere that the liverpool area is forecasted to grow by somthing like 90% in the next 15 years…could have been from the council website

I went to the Liverpool City Council…[Read more]

]]> ffd31f8b0bee88f1bb04015e07fc198b Investors Zorba replied to the topic Finance for IP number 2 in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398909-finance-for-ip-number-2/#post-4617928 Wed, 03 Mar 2010 04:15:39 +0000 Terryw wrote:
What the broker is suggesting is cross collateralisation.I am located in Sydney, but don't take on new clients anymore. I can refer you to someone if you send me your email.

Can you refer me to a broker in perth terry it would be greatly appreciated.

]]> ee656e0300cb6b7bd418a8f32ef63785 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Buyer agents in Melbourne in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398919-buyer-agents-in-melbourne/#post-4617962 Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:53:02 +0000 Try metropole

]]> 87b60859434fe0365d0749e6c37184e6 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Is Australian property sales data reliable and accurate? Find out? in the forum General Property https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398922-is-australian-property-sales-data-reliable-and-accurate-find-out/#post-4617966 Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:51:16 +0000 I have a wry smile on my face when RP data, australian property monitors, etc have varying "medians" for each capital city.Here in perth recently (Jan) had three different organization quoting 3 different "medians" for perth.Then REIWA brings out their quarterly report based on actual sales figures (From Dept Land Admin)- different…

]]> 8369f8a6423ae69943328a0c63babe01 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Family Trust in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398840-family-trust-5/#post-4617494 Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:31:19 +0000 MAQ-WET wrote:
Hey guys I already own a house but am looking to set up a family trust and transfer the finance to the name of the trust. I am in Perth and looking for a good accountant, not knowing too many people that invest in property in Perth im after a point in the right direction

Welcome MW try Chan & naylor do alot with various trusts.…[Read more]

]]> b5df8bb083a4dc7474339e7ac3a8bdb2 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Asset Protection Structures in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398805-asset-protection-structures/#post-4617338 Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:50:48 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
Dan is bang on.Firstly Stamp Duty will certainly be paid on the purchase and CGT on the assumption the asset had appreciated.I cant think of 2 many lenders who would even touch a PIT or HDT in the current climate and the odd or two that do will not be attractive in terms, conditions or interest rates.

Richard last sept(2009)…[Read more]

]]> 46182382176741d6ab7b98294d208d99 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Multi Property Finance problem in the forum Mike Lewis wrote:Hi https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398731-multi-property-finance-problem/#post-4616792 Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:20:03 +0000 Mike Lewis wrote:
Hi everyone, Im new to the forum… hoping someone can shed some light as I've hit a brick wall. I have 4 properties with one of the major banks and want to buy another IP. I have been knocked back for finance which to me is a bit of an insult really, I've got a solid income plenty of equity and they say I have reached my…[Read more]

]]> 9470fcc64bd31bf1b0ebc4b8885abe5b Investors Zorba replied to the topic Best wealth creation books? in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398697-best-wealth-creation-books/#post-4616629 Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:52:05 +0000 Ed chan's "Wealth for life"

]]> c1336fe3bc2f63cacd4408dfae0f83c5 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Spruiking your wares is not welcome! in the forum Opinionated! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398682-spruiking-your-wares-is-not-welcome/#post-4616534 Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:07:40 +0000 Hear hear

]]> a3a63cd171c5e5e489111105d4843842 Investors Zorba replied to the topic How do I become a Property Invester? in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398680-how-do-i-become-a-property-invester/#post-4616503 Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:05:39 +0000 Peter you might want to check out this threadhttps://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/help-needed/4330324

]]> 9cd54ec45c3bb108b31504caa6c91600 Investors Zorba replied to the topic living off equity in the forum Living off the equity is the https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4395880-living-off-equity-2/page/2/#post-4601866 Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:46:29 +0000 Living off the equity is the mantra of the Investors club? 

]]> 04dca7c2c3f1f9165c80307b83fb8f82 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Bank Valuations in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398457-bank-valuations-3/#post-4615255 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:27:07 +0000 Fredo you could have them privately valued. I did this here in perth in oct 2008 CBA were happy to accept them.

]]> 29cdd2cc5e31a74e30883cb746c3696c Investors Zorba replied to the topic FREE Residex Property Reports for VICTORIAN, TASMANIAN, and SOUTH AUSTRALIAN properties - Investment or Owner Occupied in the forum Value Adding https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396010-free-residex-property-reports-for-victorian-tasmanian-and-south-australian-properties-investment-or-owner-occupied/page/12/#post-4602715 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:22:19 +0000 Hi mike thanks for your prompt reply. great service. also cheers for tip on getting a bit more off on the SVR than my already discounted rate.

]]> 1437ef2c2229f176555a7ece6fcf2438 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Depreciation Schedule in the forum General Property https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4398456-depreciation-schedule-15/#post-4615237 Wed, 20 Jan 2010 08:18:52 +0000 Deprro have done ones for me in perth and melb. I think they are Aust wide about $400

]]> 9103ea2a11a0ff4752b8eedfe7345ca9 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Using equity to invest of buy another IP in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4397469-using-equity-to-invest-of-buy-another-ip/#post-4610083 Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:42:22 +0000 cheers richard. I am I being cheeky by asking which lenders allow "cash out"?

]]> 832d5811896474d4d9177ac45b0159b5 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Using equity to invest of buy another IP in the forum Qlds007 wrote:Denny i think https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4397469-using-equity-to-invest-of-buy-another-ip/#post-4610081 Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:48:16 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
Denny i think you are getting slightly confused on the situation.You would look to take out a line of credit sitting in behind your current loan (and Yes Westpac offer LOC's) and use this to fund the 20% deposit plus costs.Then on a standalone basis would secure an interest only on the new investment property.As both the interest…[Read more]

]]> b300bcc92082fb9285fc0d3a4e2a8e47 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Deprecation Schedule – If and from where? in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4397172-deprecation-schedule-if-and-from-where/#post-4608731 Sun, 06 Sep 2009 03:53:16 +0000 Deppro do agreat job and I think ar ebased aust wide

]]> f2de589e8b9f0089570640477c3b4df7 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Should I consider paying LMI to extract Equity? in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396963-should-i-consider-paying-lmi-to-extract-equity/#post-4607830 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:55:17 +0000 I have a three  IP's with very healthy equity ie $200k ,$170K & $55K repectively. (we have 4 IP's, 3 standalone) the strategy in the past has been to cross-colateralize with other properies(mainly PPoR )until the particular IP reached the required LVR then the additional security was retired.I'm interested in this notion of "refinancing" to un…[Read more]

]]> 9fec2b93f70cb3bc6c6d2943bc308ac6 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Withdraw super to buy investment property in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396852-withdraw-super-to-buy-investment-property/page/2/#post-4607037 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:21:25 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
Yes and charge you and arm and leg for that advice.

You have been to C&N for this advice??

]]> c3d6748c995c961ba933feb61aef165b Investors Zorba replied to the topic "interviewing" accountants in Perth in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396873-interviewing-accountants-in-perth/#post-4607109 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:01:34 +0000 Talk to Chan & Naylor – property investment specialists

]]> ff26594ec6f31f3002070d40cd291139 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Withdraw super to buy investment property in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396852-withdraw-super-to-buy-investment-property/#post-4607031 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:31:22 +0000 suehe wrote:
My husband is aged 57 and has $620,000 in super, working parttime and salary sacrificing $1000 per month, we can withdraw $290K from our super now and are very keen on buying a unit here in Perth ($260k) while the prices are still down. Our main reason is having a place for our daughter who cannot afford a mortgage by herself, so t…[Read more]

]]> ad59861964cf2fec038f65069bcf1fe9 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Investing in tasmania in the forum General Property https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396595-investing-in-tasmania/#post-4605853 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:54:16 +0000 wuzziemoo wrote:
HelloI looking at buying an investment property in Rokeby in Tasmania. Does anyone have experience in this area or elsewhere around Hobart and are willing to share their opinions or thoughts.Thank youkane

check out  mypropertyhunter.com.au – buyers agent for Tassie

]]> 62295a73d38ae769fb46d5405693163a Investors Zorba replied to the topic Looking for a new apartment in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396608-looking-for-a-new-apartment/#post-4605890 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:44:25 +0000 leok31 wrote:
Does anyone know where I can get info on new apartments being build in Melbourne?

HockingStuart ask for Rosie Dabic

]]> 64904470a7253f87b4bdf6ceee179cbe Investors Zorba replied to the topic Accountant / Perth in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396609-accountant-perth/#post-4605895 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:43:04 +0000 Fitzer wrote:
Hi guys,Can anybody reccommend a good accountant in Perth? What I'm looking for is someone who shares a passion for real estate and is a seasoned investor. I have been investing for a few years now but still need direction in the form of trusts etc. So far most of the companies I have contacted either have a very laid back approach…[Read more]

]]> 5f84c297cae84a71e007a39ec6c65282 Investors Zorba replied to the topic To Trust or not to Trust: that is the question. in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4394947-to-trust-or-not-to-trust-that-is-the-question-4/page/6/#post-4596880 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:09:09 +0000 Qlds007 wrote:
VicThere is no CGT on the sale of a PPOR to a Trust however Stamp Duty is payable on the full Transfer value.

Oh yeah we sold our PPOR into our PIT and the downside was the Stamp duty!!

]]> 10d1ea83168886debf5d3232031342b5 Investors Zorba replied to the topic good places to look for trusts ect in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396348-good-places-to-look-for-trusts-ect/#post-4604607 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:22:36 +0000 failure is no option wrote:
Hello to all,I have a small IP and am looking to buy more over the next few years, and i want to set up asset protection from gold diggers as well as start building a long term asset base for my future generations to lean on. Can any one point me in the right direction for a place to start reading about the right s…[Read more]

]]> 347f702cd65188a2d3b233d578f2fc1e Investors Zorba replied to the topic Using Equity In Your PPOR As A Deposit in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396510-using-equity-in-your-ppor-as-a-deposit/#post-4605406 Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:06:02 +0000 gezzy wrote:
Hello All,I am really eager to get into the investment property game and purchase an investment property while interest rates are still low, but saving up for a deposit seems to be taking forever (I know Steve McKnight recommends saving 20% as a deposit to avoid LMI etc) so I was just wondering if there was anybody out there who…[Read more]

]]> 7cb54775ba435d4b88440c28d6078b64 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Stamp Duty in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396486-stamp-duty-23/#post-4605301 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:41:32 +0000 FinSpec wrote:
People buying newly constructed property in NSW valued up to $600k will get a 50% stamp duty cut.The changes come into force from July 1, 2009 and will be reviewed December 31st.I'm not sure about other states, but I'll be looking into that in the morning.  For more information on the NSW cuts,, v…[Read more]

]]> e4247d627e460a57721f258d7a1efcfb Investors Zorba replied to the topic Landlords Insurance - Any recommendations? in the forum Finance https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396183-landlords-insurance-any-recommendations/#post-4603713 Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:30:53 +0000 duckster wrote:
I am with CGU and I have claimed through them and it was ok but now they have an excess of $500 to pay on a claim. not sure if they cover flood damage.

Aon who are agents for CGU are very good. hads cause to claim a couple of times for rent default, damage etc. came thru okay.

]]> 41a0cbb79b99afcf42d149ecb35fc4a7 Investors Zorba replied to the topic property discuss group in melbourne in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396461-property-discuss-group-in-melbourne/#post-4605157 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:54:52 +0000 Are there any property discussion type groups in perth meeting on aregular basis. it would be great to mix and bounce ideas off like minded  people/investors.

]]> 262d0b5f3b999950f1cdbe976806aa1e Investors Zorba replied to the topic Equity Issues in the forum Help Needed! https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396460-equity-issues-2/#post-4605146 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:01:08 +0000 Scott No Mates wrote:
Equity = Property value – borrowingsProperty value is what the bank's valuer has assessed the property to be worth.What sort of valuation has a 'use by date'? Valuations are done on a specific day based on current market evidence, it is not valid for a period of time.Hence if you bought for $350+ sd and the bank has valued…[Read more]

]]> d853700b6879f9b083ae0dd80dded551 Investors Zorba replied to the topic Perth Market in the forum propertunity wrote:I'd https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396455-perth-market-2/#post-4605108 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:56:20 +0000 propertunity wrote:
I'd advise against any investing strategy – property or shares – based on 'hot-tips'.My hot tip:Mandurah – sea side location (water always good for CG)Perth-Mandurah Rail Link. $1.7b, completedDo your own research.

I do. just asking for thoughts from other investors.

]]> 996911496f9f133364949383dd36503c Investors Zorba replied to the topic Family Trust Confusion in the forum Legal & Accounting https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4396451-family-trust-confusion/#post-4605075 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:38:35 +0000 Luke get advice from Chan & naylor re their Property Investment Trust(PIT) specifically designerd for property investment and nothing else.

]]>