2019 Money Magnet Symposium - Discover how to make, and keep, more money and achieve a financially empowered future
Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • Profile photo of LiamLiam
    Participant
    @lblanden
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 17

    I have recently (6months) take a strong interest in property investment and was wondering if it bothers anyone else how much negativity there is surrounding the topic. I LOVE every aspect of what I am learning and I am eager to discuss with everyone I meet being family and friends etc. I am repeatedly faced by scoffs and warnings and head shaking. IT DRIVES ME NUTS.

    Another example is when I told my family and friends I am attending a investor seminar in Melbs, they begged me not to go and told me about how i am going to be sold dodgy property etc.

    Oh mate i am fuming hey.

    TLDR Why is there so much negativity surrounding property investing?

    Anyone else experience this, perhaps in their early days?

    Profile photo of RedwoodRedwood
    Participant
    @redwood
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 340

    What does TLDR mean?

    Redwood | REDWOOD | SMSF | PROPERTY | FINANCE
    http://redwoodadvisory.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    SMSF - PROPERTY INVESTMENT - WEALTH CREATION AND FINANCE SOLUTIONS

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    What does TLDR mean?

    C’mon Redwood – all the kids are using it these days :-)

    Too Long, Didn’t Read.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    I am repeatedly faced by scoffs and warnings and head shaking. IT DRIVES ME NUTS.

    Hey Liam

    Best to surround yourself with like minded people (such as those on this forum) rather than discussing with family/friends.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Corey BattCorey Batt
    Participant
    @cjaysa
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,010

    It’s a natural part of human psychology to justify your existence – not by external facts but your own interpretation. Unsuccessful people generally believe there is no opportunities in the world and risks are dangerous, whilst you’ll find many successful people will say the exact opposite.

    In the end you need to run your own race and associate with like minded people. Fundamentally even if you know what someone says is wrong, it drags you down – you’re better off having people who uplift and encourage you with your challenges and goals.

    TL;DR Australians in particular are heavily risk adverse and like to tear anyone who goes outside of the norm – be it business, investing etc.

    Corey Batt | Precision Funding
    http://www.precisionfunding.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Investment Focused Finance Strategist - servicing Australia-wide

    Profile photo of LiamLiam
    Participant
    @lblanden
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 17

    Thanks for the re-assuring words guys. Its just very odd to see the people you surround yourself with being so content with everyday life. Mortgage repayments, car loans, job advancement etc etc and they complain about how tough it is without lifting a finger to change anything.

    My mothers partner is a business director for a school in Adelaide and an ex-accountant. He is the worst of them all. Telling me over extend myself on my first purchase and move back home so rent not as high.

    I find everything about property investing so fascinating and for others to poo poo it so fast is infuriating.

    Sigh

    You will be seeing a fair bit more of me around the place i reckon.

    Cheers again guys

    Profile photo of MoggyMoggy
    Participant
    @lordmoggy
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 24

    Everything In life is a risk …. In the end you have two choices be in debt or not! After reading so many finance books I tend to believe it’s best to stay away from debt that’s what drags you down to the point of no return. Many Australians even the world is smothered in shit loads of it you only have to look at Greece to see that …. But if you are wise save your money ! Let’s just say of all the books and knowledge I have gained Throughout my life all say very much the same thing save your money ,if you don’t when retirement comes and you can’t work anymore were will the money come from if you have no passive income or Centrelink pension? If the government take the pension away and it’s quite possible where will we turn to for survival? Somehow we must look after ourselves. I see the big picture and it doesn’t look pretty let me tell you!! I see the world for it is and what it’s not!!
    I now have the final piece of the puzzle I have Been searching for….

    “The answer is having enough money to keep you alive long enough.”

    Investing is the passive income needed to survive to the end

    It’s not about owning everything.

    I will not be fooled into borrowing to buying property as this only makes the banks richer …. You can try to out run the debt, but lose your job and the bank comes knocking for the keys. Never let emotion rule your head. Don’t buy anything unless you can pay cash for it including a house. Renting suits me just fine. The sharemarket is one source of passive income so long as you can amass a huge share portfolio. But risk is there too. You can combine the two sources of passive income but still problems will come….. It’s all about income….

    Moggy

    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,366

    Hi Moggy,

    I will not be fooled into borrowing to buying property as this only makes the banks richer …. You can try to out run the debt, but lose your job and the bank comes knocking for the keys. Never let emotion rule your head. Don’t buy anything unless you can pay cash for it including a house. Renting suits me just fine. The sharemarket is one source of passive income so long as you can amass a huge share portfolio. But risk is there too. You can combine the two sources of passive income but still problems will come….. It’s all about income….

    Wow, that is an interesting take on things. I have heard of people who only ever rent, but also own IP’s or shares to offset the rent. In your case, you are saying “only pay cash for a house” – and I was wondering how you go about that? Are you looking to grow a share portfolio until it is large enough to sell to buy a house?

    I do recall a time (about 10 years ago) when one could buy a house on a credit card in Broken Hill – there was even a story where a widow bought her “first home” with the Owners Grant (then $18k) AND GOT CHANGE !! But that is a long time back now.

    Anyway, I am interested to hear your side of things Moggy – care to share?

    Benny

    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,366

    Hi Liam,

    I LOVE every aspect of what I am learning and I am eager to discuss with everyone I meet being family and friends etc. I am repeatedly faced by scoffs and warnings and head shaking. IT DRIVES ME NUTS.

    First thing I would suggest is that you don’t give them the power to affect you so badly. There is an old saying – something like “No-one can make me feel bad unless I give them permission to”. Often, the permission you give is tacit (unspoken). It is up to you to revoke that permission and claim your right to your own views without feeling bad because others don’t agree.

    Like you, they have a right to their opinions, and it is likely fear on THEIR parts (and thus concern for you) that has them “warning you”. See, everyone has a story of someone who tried (insert favourite subject – let’s say, property investing) and met a bad ending with it.

    Your family/friends know no different unless THEY have also tried the Property Investing path themselves. And yes, there have been plenty of media reports over the decades about “sharks” ripping off people by selling them over-priced property. So you don’t have to look far to see “danger signs” around property investing.

    On the flip side, you will get to read of many in here who have created their own successes. There are also those who can become part of your team that you gather around you to grow your success. Lots of hints and tips and warnings in here too – to keep you safe. Make the information yours, then formulate your plan based on you and your goals (not family and THEIR goals).

    Stick around grasshopper – much to learn there is…. :p

    Benny

    Profile photo of BuyersAgentBuyersAgent
    Participant
    @knightm
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 317

    @lblanden As you can see even from a few posts above people have very different viewpoints. Personally I am in love with property and it SUITS ME JUST FINE that many folk aren’t. If everyone was into property the competition in the market would be so much fiercer. If you stick something (anything) out for long enough you become better than all the jonny come latelys and making profits get so much easier. For me property is that thing and after 15 yrs it gets to be more fun every year. @benny has got good advice above too so read that twice!

    BuyersAgent | Precium
    http://www.precium.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    South Coast NSW Independent Buyers Agent - Wollongong to Batemans Bay and Regional NSW. DOWNLOAD OUR FREE 14 POINT PROPERTY BUYER'S CHEATSHEET to avoid painful mistakes at precium.com.au

    Profile photo of wChawCha
    Participant
    @wcha858
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 5

    Keith Cunningham once said at a seminar I attended recently – “Live like no one else, so later you can live like no one else”

    Profile photo of MoggyMoggy
    Participant
    @lordmoggy
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 24

    Benny: yes you can do it 3 ways through shares or property or savings to make money to buy the house for cash(both passive income creators good for those that can’t work and those that can). But shares are cheaper. Or through saving year after year depending on your income. And as we know through mortgages. But I wouldn’t hold the mortgage for the full 30 year loan term. Only 5 years and no greater than 10. After that time to check the equity level, if the level is high enough to buy the home you want, then sell the invest properties(2 or 3 should be enough) and buy the house for cash the same for your share portfolio once it’s reached critical mass then pay cash for the house. The same for the savings road once reached then pay cash for the house.

    Profile photo of PetePete
    Participant
    @pjewitt
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 50

    Don’t let anyone hold you back Liam, as time is something you can’t get back. The earlier you start the better. And having the right people around you makes all the difference. The relationship I’ve built with my mortgage broker over the last 10 years has been an integral part of my success.

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
    Participant
    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    Liam .. in one of my most vulnerable times .. and when I was most highly geared .. I nearly threw my hopes away …

    Because of a newspaper headline.

    It was 2006 .. and I was earning well .. and reaping my rewards .. and making my investment judgements. I remember it very well because in August 2006 a very well known broadsheet .. not mentioning any names but it is a lot thinner now .. released some doom and gloom statistics about how the market was oversaturated and there was a correction due any day now.

    Now I turn with this headline to my father .. who has lived longer and seen a couple more markets than I have and is also a successful property investor ..

    He says .. ignore it .. they come up with these headlines every couple of months.

    I stuck to my guns .. highly geared .. and in that year to end .. spring season .. property marched up 33-38% in my area of investment.

    You either listen to the headlines .. listen to the naysayers .. or get on with the doing, using your best judgement to value your cause.

    I keep doing the latter .. even in markets where other people are running from them. I have invested in Florida .. Detroit .. Atlanta and now am starting my first projects in New York. Its taken time but the rewards have been worth it .. and with my experience I never doubted my actions again.

    Even in this current climate in Australia (which I will rate as VERY average) there are still goodies coming up for sale .. and if you raise your hand at the right time .. you too can be there to invest.

    Improve your judgement calls so you can turn around to any naysayers and just say .. WELL I WENT AND DID THAT RIGHT.

    I did.

    Profile photo of JohnJohn
    Participant
    @blackhat80
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 6

    I had the same issue with family and friends when I started 15 yrs ago, I put it down to culture and their education. The Aussie way is to buy your house and work hard to pay your mortgage off and that’s about it with some shares on the side. I think its the idea of debt which scares people. If I had ever listened to friends and family, I would have probably only paid off 60% of my mortgage in the last 15 yrs and I would be sweating worrying if my superannuation would cut it when I retire, instead I have no mortgage, ten investment properties (two within a SMSF) and no concerns about if and when I can retire.

    If they don’t support you, that’s fine, go to the seminars, learn as much as you can and surround yourself with like minded people and never stop learning.

    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,366

    Hi John,
    (and all others reading this into the future)

    If I had ever listened to friends and family, I would have probably only paid off 60% of my mortgage in the last 15 yrs and I would be sweating worrying if my superannuation would cut it when I retire, instead I have no mortgage, ten investment properties (two within a SMSF) and no concerns about if and when I can retire.

    You said a mouthful there. No, let me take that back – those few words said a BOOK-full.

    Let’s see now – based on your experience, do I :-
    1. Pay off 60% of my house mortgage over 15 years by just making P&I payments, OR
    2. Pay it right off, AND be holding 10 IP’s after 15 years?

    Tough choice !! Can I phone a friend? *rotflmao* Of course, one way requires a bit more input than the other – in cash and in education. But hey, what a good result. Well done, John.

    I hope Moggy is still around and taking this in!!

    Benny

    Profile photo of brecciasoundingbrecciasounding
    Participant
    @brecciasounding
    Join Date: 2016
    Post Count: 18

    Hi Liam. Others are correct here, instead of thinking the negatives about your property issues then why not talk to brokers or professionals who could help you with it. I think, they know better about properties. I just thought they could help you find others means to solve your problems.

    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,366

    Hi Liam,

    On a reread of this, it struck me – when hearing “tales of woe” from others, they are usually all about someone being “ripped off” when purchasing a house. As I mentioned earlier, marketeers would fly folks “FREE” to the Gold Coast to stitch them up on a poorly built new property at an inflated price.

    Always too, the “clients” would be flown from either Sydney or Melbourne – so that the “clients” would be heartened by the low(er) prices and be thinking “This CAN’T be a rip-off – these new properties are so CHEAP!” It was all cleverly thought through by the marketeers, and they would supply lots of urging, and provide a solicitor to “advise” the clients on the day too.

    Well, those of us familiar with investing have known of such things since OUR early days. The thing that strikes me now, and should give you HUGE ENCOURAGEMENT to keep going, is to note that these rip-offs are all SOLUTION properties.

    Steve says “Buy PROBLEMS and Sell SOLUTIONS”. Don’t go BUYING solutions.

    i.e. Don’t buy H&L packages as investments. Instead, look for situations where YOU can add value to a property once you have bought it. It might be an unloved house in a nice street that needs some $$ (and time) spent on it to bring it up to par. Or it might be a “Renovate or Detonate” purchase that you might rent out while you plan to demolish it and develop the block down the track.

    Then again, it might be that you find someone who just NEEDS to sell – e.g. they have already signed up to buy another house, the sale of this one has fallen through, and you can help them to move on – they will cut you a discount just to be free of the problem.

    There are many more angles – but I hope that gives you the idea. Always buy problems, and create solutions.

    Of course, you need to school up on just HOW to do this so that your “problem house” doesn’t eat you up and spit you out – that is where education comes in. This forum goes some way, as do others you meet, or else find a mentor.

    Or, spend some $$ on learning HOW to do all this the proper way, and then just go do it !!

    Rock on Liam,
    Benny

    Profile photo of Anthony ZanattaAnthony Zanatta
    Participant
    @azanatta91
    Join Date: 2016
    Post Count: 25

    Hey Liam,

    I haven’t actually bought my first property, I’m jumping into it for the first time and learning as much as possible like yourself.

    The one thing I’ve noticed about life in general, not just property investing, is that when you engage in a concept with which people aren’t familiar, an innate fear of the unknown leads to them hurling a whole host of negative comments your way to try and get you down. In their eyes, they’re “helping” you because it’s the “safe” thing to do, they don’t want to see you go through tough times because of perceived “silly” decisions. Thing is, when you make it out the other side having kicked ass, they sing praise to everybody they know about how successful you are etc.

    I’m an asset management consultant/engineer in my day job, and I’m carrying that mentality into property investing (whether it works or not – I’ll let you know in a few years!). Build up a business plan identifying your tangible goals and how you’re going to achieve those goals within your given timeframe. Include a risk matrix, which identifies all possible risks, how likely they are to occur and what measures you’ve got in place to mitigate those risks if they look like they’re developing into a real issue. Proper planning prevents piss poor performance! If you conduct your due diligence and consider the advice of the great folks on these forums you’ll definitely reduce your chances of falling into a nasty situation. At the end of the day, we’re still taking an educated guess – things could still go pear shaped due to factors out of our control – that’s just life :P

    People are going to criticise you when you break the mould. I love proving them all wrong and reaping the rewards!

    If you’re in the Sydney area hit me up and we can bounce ideas over drinks if you’re keen.

    Anthony

    Profile photo of WoodlinWoodlin
    Participant
    @woodlin
    Join Date: 2016
    Post Count: 2

    Hi Liam,

    I’ve got a slightly different spin to add to this thread. In the past, I’ve been a fraidy cat. Not an outright naysayer, but often confused by the different concepts involved in property investment, and struggle to wrap my head around numbers.

    Partner and I have been together for just over 10 years, we have 12 yo and 3mth old daughters. Its the birth of our youngest that has kickstarted a “Right, let’s do this thing!!” interest in investment property.

    But its taken 10 years to get to that point (and I have been apologising so much this last month, its not funny).

    My partner is generally more financially savvy than me – he was using margin loans to build deposits from when he was about 16 years old. I saw my parents lose 4 properties in a year when I was a kid due to the sky rocketing interest rates of the late 80’s. Any time my partner would raise the discussion around investment property, I would be anxious – which wasn’t helped by his tendency to use hypothetical figures to justify his strategy! I attended a property investment seminar (OTP scam) and figured if that was what all they hype was about, I’d better find another way to financial freedom. It didn’t occur to me that there could be more than one way to invest in property – so maybe change your phrases – “Cashflow positive property investment” has been a good one with me and some of our family members to get the distinction across on how what we’re doing is different. I’ve also welcomed one especially anxious family member’s comments and questions – it forces me to take off my sometimes rose coloured glasses and find answers that satisfy the concerns raised (or at least address them to my satisfaction).

    IF you want to convert those around you to being more positive – ask them what they’re afraid of. What worries them about property investment? Specifically! Ask them what they’ve read, and point them to better information. Ask them how they plan to be financially free – and if they scoff at the notion, let them go. If they look slightly desperate, keep pointing them to more information.

    For my partner, he’s been patient while I’ve read, and read, and read (!), asked noobie questions, read some more, in between been flat out working and trying not to spend all our hard earned on “make me feel better” stuff (holidays, furniture – parental guilt is expensive in more ways than one). I really feel for him, and wish we’d been able to have more constructive conversations on property investment much sooner. But we’re here now, and I’m determined to make this work!!

    And I’m education our eldest as we go – keep an eye out for her success story in about 10 years ;)

    Hope this helps!

    Woodlin

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