All Topics / Help Needed! / Vacant Possession denied

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 22 total)
  • Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    Hi Guys,
    First post and first property! My partner and I have put in an offer on an apartment in Wollongong, where we live and it has been accepted. Last Monday, we signed the contracts though we requested vacant possession as we want to move in for 12 months and renovate before renting it back out. The vendor is refusing to agree to vacant possession even though the current lease expires at the end of this week. As it stands, he will not sign the contract if we want vacant possession as he is concerned that he’ll be out of pocket for a few weeks, should the tenants find something before settlement. We want vacant possession because we want to do the final inspection on the day of settlement and not have to worry about getting rid of tenants. We’ve paid well over his asking price, (As has been the case in Wollongong over the past 12 months), so surely our request for vacant possession isn’t unreasonable?
    Thanks in advance.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, souds reasonable.

    Why not offer to ‘rent’ the place prior to settlemennt if the tenants were to move out.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    We’re actually renting at the moment ourselves Terryw so we’ll also need to give notice (We’re currently outside of our lease). I understand that the Vendor is wanting to minimise any financial loss but surely it isn’t our problem that he has tenants in there?

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    Hi Misswilko

    How bad do you want the place? Is it worth jeopardising over something so minor?

    It seems pretty straight forward to me – have your lease end on the same day you’re due to settle……unless I’m missing something here.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    We’re actually renting at the moment ourselves Terryw so we’ll also need to give notice (We’re currently outside of our lease). I understand that the Vendor is wanting to minimise any financial loss but surely it isn’t our problem that he has tenants in there?

    yes as Jamie says how bad do you want the place – a few weeks paying double rent would only cost around $1k extra??

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    Thanks for the suggestions guys, he says he still can’t be sure the tenants will have moved out by the date of settlement, so if that’s the case, we’ll have given notice for our current place and have nowhere to go…

    Profile photo of Sam WSam W
    Participant
    @sam-w
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 7

    Just curious, wouldn’t it make better sense tax wise to renovate it straight away and get tenants in as soon as possible? 12 months to renovate a unit is a long time, a lot of missed rent and tax deductions.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Sam, if they moved in straight away the property could be CGT exempt, and they could use the 6 year rule to continue with the exemtpion once moved out.

    Wilko – that is a good point. I have seen people in the past who had to move out of their house on the day of settlement, but the tenants of the house they were purchasing had failed to find a new place to live and had refused to move out.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of BallerinaBallerina
    Participant
    @ballerina
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 63

    If you are prepared to walk away from this purchase, ask for another condition: if current tenants do not move out on the settlement, seller would pay your rent till property is ready for you to move in. Agreed amount to be taken out of the settlement proceeds.

    Your seller can not have all in his favor. He also has to give something back.

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    He’s baulking at possibly losing $600? in 2 weeks rent.

    Obviously doesn’t really need the sale. He has to give 30 days notice so they’d have to be pretty organised to be out before that time.

    So he says they may leave early, then he says they may be there longer as they won’t have time to move out?? Maybe you din’t pay as high as he thinks he can get??

    Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    This is our first purchase so we’d like to move in for lifestyle reasons for the first 12 months and renovate as we go but it seems a little like the vendor wants to protect his own interests no matter what which I guess is fair enough, but so do we. I sent the solicitor an email this morning saying that Vacant Possession is a must for us, though we are willing to negotiate on extending the settlement if the tenants don’t find anything within the 42 days, we are flexible with that because being renters ourselves, we understand that these things take time sometimes… Within reason. He had the property listed for 380k, our first offer was 400k and as with a LOT of properties in the Illawarra over the past 12 months, there was a bidding war and he accepted our offer of 420k. We’ve had 12 months of missing out on properties and this one was again only on the market for not even 10 days so we’re hoping he comes to some sort of reasonable agreement.

    Profile photo of BuyersAgentBuyersAgent
    Participant
    @knightm
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 338

    As mentioned a few weeks rent is a ridiculous reason for either party to back out. As Terry said I would offer to cover any lost rent for the few weeks if they leave early.

    BuyersAgent | Precium
    http://www.precium.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    South Coast NSW Independent Buyers Agent - Wollongong to Batemans Bay and Regional NSW. DOWNLOAD OUR FREE 14 POINT PROPERTY BUYER'S CHEATSHEET to avoid painful mistakes at precium.com.au

    Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    I just heard back from the solicitor and this was her response:

    ‘They still haven’t agreed to mark the contract ‘vacant possession’, but will issue the notice to the tenant to vacate on the expiration of the lease, being 26 February 2015. Should the tenant still be in occupation of the property you will not be entitled to delay settlement. ”
    The vendor is not willing to budge on this one and hopefully the tenants will vacate on time, however there is certainly no guarantee that they will be out in time for settlement.’

    The fact that he is not at all willing to even accept our offer of a delayed settlement really irks me. We want guaranteed Vacant Possession as we do not want to wear the costs of any damage that these tenants may do (Intentionally or unintentionally) when they finally do move. I’ve seen this happen to friends and it is a nightmare for them. We would like to do a final inspection also and we can’t do that if the vendor still has tenants in there.
    I think the vendor has made his mind up though and we may just walk away…. Pain in the backside when we’ve paid for pest and building, strata reports and solicitor fees etc

    Profile photo of BonhamBonham
    Participant
    @bonham
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 18

    Sounds like the vendor may have “family” as tenants. Just a hunch.

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    Good point Bontham and if that is the case I would be walking. If there is not a lease in place you will have LOTS of trouble trying to evict.

    Check to see if there is a lease in place and if it is rented through an agent.

    If it is not then walk away. I nearly bought a property like this. I walked away. Took the guy who bought it months to get the tenant out.

    Next . . .

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I think the vendor has made his mind up though and we may just walk away…. Pain in the backside when we’ve paid for pest and building, strata reports and solicitor fees etc

    Yes, but you would have known from the beginning that there was no vacant possession as this is part of the contract. Is there a lease in the contract?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    The first we heard about No Vacant Possession was when we went to sign the contract and we signed it on the condition that we are given Vacant Possession, which is when the Vendor came back and said he won’t agree to that. The marketing and adverts all stated ‘This property is currently leased until the 26/02/2015 at $370p/w’
    What’s promising though is that it’s the same agent leasing it and she emailed last night saying that she is doing everything she can to find them another property…. But is that enough reassurance? My line of thinking is that if she is so certain that there will be no problem finding them something else, then why not just agree to Vacant Possession or at the very least, an extended settlement?

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    It does seem strange. I would assume that if you give someone notice they will move out in the given time. That’s what usually happens.
    Or do they know something we don’t ? You’ve got to wonder.

    Profile photo of DeanCollinsDeanCollins
    Participant
    @deancollins
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 376

    So what was the outcome…..enquiring minds want to know…..did the vendor deliver vacant possession
    or
    did you sue them for costs for not delivering as per contract
    or
    did you screw up and assume vacant possession and not include it as a condition of deposit in your offer?

    Profile photo of MissWilkoMissWilko
    Participant
    @misswilko
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 7

    Hey Guys,
    So we exchanged today and we weren’t given vacant possession, instead the vendor agreed to issue a 30 days to vacate notice to the tenants so we just have to hope that they’ll go. I still have no idea why he wouldn’t budge but our solicitor seems to think that it’s not uncommon? All in all, our first purchase and it took 3 and a half weeks to exchange. Too long if you ask me!

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 22 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.