All Topics / Finance / Redraw conflicting advice

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  • westsubshuttles
    Participant
    @westsubshuttles
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 2

    Hi My banker and mortgage broker say that consolidating a redraw when refinancing does not contaminate the original loan.
    Another MB says it contaminates.

    Situation is IP worth 350k.
    Mortgage owing 150k.
    Redraw 50k.
    Want to refinance to buy ppor, keeping IP . Banker and first mb say consolidate redraw, so refinance 100k.
    Second mb says that will mess IP loan.

    Hope i explained properly and didnt leave some vital detail out.Anyway what do you think?

    westsubshuttles | westernsuburbshuttles
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    Profile photo of BennyBenny
    Moderator
    @benny
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 1,416

    Hi westsub,
    WHat I think I am hearing (reading) is that you wish to borrow against the IP to provide a deposit for a PPOR.

    To many, a redraw means to ADD to an existing loan (i.e. you pay down a loan, then borrow it back via a redraw). In that case, only one loan exists. If that were the case, you would be mixing personal borrowings (for a PPOR) with the rest of the loan for the IP). That DOES create a mess.

    However, if you were to draw on the Equity in the IP using a SEPARATE loan (for your personal purposes), then the original IP loan remains an investment loan, and is not “mixed with personal borrowings”.

    Keep the loans separate and distinct, and there shouldn’t be a problem. But I am not an accredited adviser – so do treat my answer as opinion only. There are others on here who are accredited advisers (see their signatures) and can comment with authority,

    Benny

    Profile photo of danwattodanwatto
    Participant
    @danwatto
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 9

    Did your banker and mortgage broker show you their membership in the institute of chartered accountants? Are they licensed tax advisers?
    My girlfriend told a banker she wanted to open a line of credit with her equity to buy an investment property. The next day the banker called her and said congratulations I opened a personal loan for you, with 12% interest!

    Some bankers have no idea even about their own job, don’t trust them with tax advice please :)

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I think you shouldn’t be taking tax advice from either a mortgage broker or a banker.

    Cancel the redraw and Borrow against the equity in the IP as as a separate split, using this for the deposit on the new PPOR.
    2 benefits
    1) no contaminating of the loan
    2) avoids cross collateralising securities

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Did your banker and mortgage broker show you their membership in the institute of chartered accountants? Are they licensed tax advisers?

    DW only those with tax agent registration or lawyers can give tax advice. Even CAs can’t unless licenced.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of danwattodanwatto
    Participant
    @danwatto
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 9

    True

    Some CAs are auditors etc and not tax agents.

    westsubshuttles
    Participant
    @westsubshuttles
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 2

    Hi Benny ,You are correct the setup for refinance will be 3 separate loans not x colled.
    Existing IP loan 100k
    Topup loan against existing 100k
    New ppor loan 400k
    All loans i/o and offset against ppor

    The existing IP loan has 50k in redraw . So i have a choice of payout 100k (consolidate redraw) or 150k ( and use redraw money for investment purposes) which im leaning toward.
    Seems from what your saying consolidating loan is ok. Thanks

    westsubshuttles | westernsuburbshuttles
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    Profile photo of lexdlexd
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    @lexd
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 5

    Hi all,

    sorry to bring up an old thread, I am also having the same question as the OP.

    Currently I have an IP and about 6 months ago I have refinanced it thinking to purchase another IP, however things have changed and I am now looking to purchase a PPOR instead.

    Current IP Loan: 350k
    Current offset amount: 100k (including my savings)

    Since the refinance, I’ve been putting all my savings into the offset account (to reduce interest).

    So my question is that now I have my personal savings and money from the equity sitting in the offset account, will I be able to use all that 100k from the offset account to purchase my PPOR? or will I only be able to use what I’ve put in since the refinance?

    Say if I am able to use that 100k from the offset, this will obvious increase the amount of interest I pay for the IP loan, will I be able to claim this extra interest as tax deductions?

    thanks in advance!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Dinh, did you increase the investment loan and place any of this money into the offset?

    If so you have contaminated your borrowed money, and you have also contaminated the investment loan.

    See my other post which I just wrote where I warned about this.
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/5025544-need-advise-cash-in-equity-through-loan/

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of lexdlexd
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    @lexd
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 5

    Thanks terryw,

    That is correct.. I had refinanced the loan and put the extra borrowed money into my offset account..

    Is there a way to fix the contamination? It’s only been less than 12 months so if I look back into the offset account, I can easily determine how much I’ve been putting in since the refinance..

    By the way, this loan+offset account is purely for investment only, so i have never withdrawn any money out from this account for personal spending.. I hope this can also make it easier to untangle the mess?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Its like unscrambling an omelette.

    it depends on the situation actually. You might be able to pay off the loan and then reborrow. But if you increased and existing loan you would need to split it first.

    Seek tax advice.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of lexdlexd
    Participant
    @lexd
    Join Date: 2015
    Post Count: 5

    hi terry,

    never knew what I’ve done by refinancing and parking the money in the offset would’ve created such a mess..

    say if I am able to postpone buying my ppor for another year, can I now use my offset (borrowed + personal money) to buy another investment property instead?

    if I can buy another ip without tax issues then hopefully after 1 year I’ll get some capital gains and I can refinance and split the loan on that instead.. I spoke to a friend of mine and he goes because my money is now contaminated, I may have issues.. I just want to be sure before I use that money to reinvest..

    thanks again!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    lexd

    Don’t see how delaying things would change anything.

    I suggest you seek tax advice as you could probably pay off that loan, using the offset money, and start again. but before you repay the loan you must split it so you can repay the relevant portion. Splitting it can unmix it.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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