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  • Profile photo of sciencesurfsciencesurf
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    Agree, education, exposure and time. We tackle our third reno project in 3 weeks now.. The more I learn though, the more I realise there is a lot more at play than one first realises. Not rocket science but still not child’s play.

    I have to say the bartering is my favourite part of the process. Psychology and money. Technically you do charge a fee then.. The list price never equates to the ‘real’ price unless buying in heated markets.

    You would have made some good coin if you’d helped clients round my parts a year or so ago…

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Profile photo of sciencesurf sciencesurf.

    sciencesurf
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    Profile photo of superAndrewsuperAndrew
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    Technically you do charge a fee then.. The list price never equates to the ‘real’ price unless buying in heated markets.

    Yes of course I charge a fee but my goal is to get the lowest price possible for the buyer. Fee is capped at 5-10k depending on the property price. The rest is passed on to the buyer. Profit is made when you buy so it’s important to get the best price possible.

    superAndrew | Property Analyser and Finder Tool
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    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    For Gods sake find a videographer who can teach you some basic video compilation skills because the ones you make suck! I absolutely hate the slit type view. They invented panorama for a reason!! Everything I and others view on these days is 16:9. Why oh why would I want to waste 2/3 of my screen view to blur and its ten times worse on a phone screen…doh! The other thing that sucks, and I think you caught it off your mate Nathan, is your always in the middle of the shot. Your not the subject so get out of there. Shot your focal points and then clip them together and voice it over(You get better sound wink wink). If you want your mug in the thing do an intro or summary.

    Now Grasshopper you know you’re my favorite young gun so if you don’t start listening to your elders I’m going to have to come over and slap your ears. Hint; listen to Jay. Get out of Pitsville and go do some serious entrepreneuring like your capable of. Right now you remind me of those 3rd world kids picking over the local rubbish dump.

    Guys like Trump didn’t make their coin picking over left overs in a dying rust belt town.

    Hi Catinthehat,

    Thanks for your comment and your critique is taken on board. I have actually printed your comment out and will review and address in more detail.

    Keep costs at a minimum and drive revenue was advice I was given a while ago. This is the main focus at the moment.

    Once the revenue kicks in it won’t be a problem to do the all the things you mentioned.

    I am looking to get 3 new more people on board as soon as possible and one of them will need to be able to look after everything tech related.

    Once again thanks for your critique and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    PS

    You started this thread and wrote a blog about it ‘Don’t Put Lipstick on a Pig’

    https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/4990568-dont-put-lipstick-on-a-pig-2/

    Toledo is a ‘pig’ as far as US cities go. It’s been dying a slow death since the GFC and has little to zero hope of coming back in this lifetime.

    Your only hope is that Toledo has some king of positive aberrant event that transforms it somehow but there’s as much chance of that as being run over by stampeding unicorns.

    Take your own advice (and lipstick) and find something better to put it on.

    Sorry to be harsh Grasshopper but you needed a kick in the butt.

    Catinthehat,

    Thanks for your comment.

    I don’t agree with your view on the US real estate market and economy.

    It would be a pleasure having you here in Toledo and showing you first hand what is going on and what I see.

    IMO Ohio and Michigan are the 2 most undervalued real estate markets in the world right now.

    There are some amazing things happening especially in Ohio state.

    Thanks and have a great day.

    ps. I haven’t felt this excited in a while as I actually see people posting on the overseas section :)

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    Engelo – good stuff mate, keep on being aggressive with the marketing and communication, stay aussie and try to take the above from whoever he is constructively.

    My only constructive feedback is button up the shirt bro!

    Whether Toledo is right or not, i’m not right to comment.

    Cheers, Ivan

    Thanks for your comment Ivan,

    Your comment is much appreciated.

    Nothing beats hard work, sacrifice and persistence. I thrive on criticism as it molds you to do better.

    There is an old European saying

    “When a good horse gallops, it leaves a lot of dust behind it.”

    Thanks and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    Interesting vid Engelo. I tend to agree with some of the feedback but certainly not all.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Catinthehat wrote:</div>
    For Gods sake find a videographer who can teach you some basic video compilation skills because the ones you make suck! I absolutely hate the slit type view. They invented panorama for a reason!! Everything I and others view on these days is 16:9.

    For $500 Australian get yourself a gopro and shoot in 1080P or 4K (will be slow but well worth it as video processing technology catches up). They would have to be a hell of a lot cheaper in the US??

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Catinthehat wrote:</div>
    The other thing that sucks, and I think you caught it off your mate Nathan, is your always in the middle of the shot. Your not the subject so get out of there. Shot your focal points and then clip them together and voice it over(You get better sound wink wink). If you want your mug in the thing do an intro or summary.

    I completely disagree. Do you honestly think people want to stare at white walls?? What makes property investing so interesting is the human component. Real people making real money. Nathan gets so many ‘likes’ because people find him engaging. Without him on the screen the true value would be lost – and no-one would bother watching. I can imagine how my students would react if I stood at the back of the classroom, while they looked forward, and I clicked away at a Powerpoint and spoke. Poor teaching. Learning occurs through connection. Engelo, I think you’ve done a great job at achieving that in the vid.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Redwood wrote:</div>
    My only constructive feedback is button up the shirt bro!

    How long have you been in the states? It seems to be rubbing off a little!

    Hi sciencesuf,

    Thanks for your comment.

    Go Pro’s are $199 here :)

    I actually looked at one yesterday.

    As mentioned in a previous post that all these things like the Go Pro camera and a more automated database system for example will come with time. My main goal is to drive the revenue for this new venture and build the brand as much as possible even if that means shooting with a mobile phone. Once the revenue is there I have an office full of things to spend it on to make us more efficient and professional.

    If I told you what our projected annual operating expense is I think that most wouldn’t believe its possible.

    I have been here for 2 years now and it sure has been quite a journey. Loving every moment of it.

    Thanks for your comment and please continue posting.

    I will do my best to post more “amateur” video’s haha

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>sciencesurf wrote:</div>
    I completely disagree. Do you honestly think people want to stare at white walls?? What makes property investing so interesting is the human component. Real people making real money. Nathan gets so many ‘likes’ because people find him engaging. Without him on the screen the true value would be lost – and no-one would bother watching. I can imagine how my students would react if I stood at the back of the classroom, while they looked forward, and I clicked away at a Powerpoint and spoke. Poor teaching. Learning occurs through connection. Engelo, I think you’ve done a great job at achieving that in the vid.

    People who really want to learn want to see the progress.

    The rest just want to be entertained and want to feel the speakers excitement and energy and immerse themselves emotionally. Which is fine too if that is what you want and that’s how you can learn.

    Hi superandrew.

    Thanks for your comment.

    People who really really want to learn should go out and do it themselves lollol

    That’s the best way to learn. Make mistakes and learn from them.

    Thanks and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>sciencesurf wrote:</div>
    This is business, and Engelo is trying to promote himself just as much as the progress of the reno.

    Horses for courses. You don’t do naff 5 min vids that try to achieve too much. The last thing I would be doing to promote my business and image is these sorts of low grade sloppy slapped together videos. Birch has spent the last several months cleaning up his YT mess that exposed his over inflated claims. He was popular based on the human interest story… a young go get’m teen making good not his videography skills because they obviously sucked.. Poor publicity, customer service complaints and poor presentation have left a video trail of questionable practices, ethics and honesty. He’s now trying to launder and re-present his brand.

    Engelo’s making the same mistakes.

    Hi Catinthehat,

    I don’t just consider Nathan as one of the most honest real estate gurus in Australia but also a friend.

    Very down to earth genuine guys that was always willing to assist. Believe it or not he where he is today due to the video’s he was doing all those years.

    My intentions with the video’s are to showcase the properties and areas we are investing in and also to continue building the brand and be consistent.

    By writing daily blogs, posting on social media, having stands at expo’s and doing regular video’s are all just numbers that need to be done on a consistent basis to get results. Its amazing to see how many doors start opening 6-12 months of doing such things. I would be happy to privately share some amazing opportunities that have come our way from “measly” strategies similar to this video.

    I love what I do and that’s whats counts.

    Thanks for everyone’s comments and I am looking forward to more of them.

    Have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    Too many property gurus targeting everyday Australians who want to get into property investing.

    Most of them don’t make money from investing but from “teaching” or selling their overpriced/turnkey investment properties. They spend too much time on their image and their brand.

    I mentioned this on another forum.

    Successful investors don’t have time to teach. They spend their time investing, buying, selling and managing their properties.

    As the saying goes: Those who can do, those who can’t teach.

    No offense to real teachers.

    Thanks for your comment superAndrew,

    I will reply to this post as I feel it was directed my way but I refuse to get into any Argy Bargy with you.

    Just as an FYI our group does not sell to Australian’s and I wish more would jump on board instead of buying overpriced Australian properties. Its sad as most did get heavily screwed over by shady US turnkey operators.

    I found myself wearing a white short and red cross on my back when I assisted (many from this forum) to get their properties back on track.

    No $$$, fees where charged or requested.

    Also, believe it or not most of the sales we make these days are to owner occupiers wanting to live in Toledo and the investors we work with tend to be from the East or West coast of the US. This model would be our core but we also do other things.

    As for the time factor. If you “like” Trumps page on Facebook you will find the odd video even from him. In his book “The Art of the Deal” it outlines his daily schedule and its crazy busy yet he still has time to do a video.

    At the moment I still go and look at properties and I might as well take a video while I am at it. The after process of editing and uploading is outsourced.

    There you have it. I am trying to prove to you that I am successful and still have time to do a video and post a blog hahaha

    Excuse my fascination with Trump lollol

    Thanks for reading and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of superAndrewsuperAndrew
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    I will reply to this post as I feel it was directed my way but I refuse to get into any Argy Bargy with you.

    I’m not trying to get into any Argy Bargy with you. It’s none of my business what you do. I am just pointing out something that people who are getting into investing should be aware of.

    As for the time factor. If you “like” Trumps page on Facebook you will find the odd video even from him. In his book “The Art of the Deal” it outlines his daily schedule and its crazy busy yet he still has time to do a video.

    Do you know how many times Trump has gone bankrupt? He has to do those video, write the books etc to build up and maintain his image so people can continue lending to him. That’s where his value lies: his image and name.

    When he files for bankruptcy he doesn’t loose any of his wealth that is protected through his legal structures. But someone is losing in the process.

    He said one time: “Many “great entrepreneurs” have used bankruptcy to restructure debt, free up capital and improve their businesses.” (Btw I wouldn’t call him an entrepreneur)

    Sometimes the best option is to file for bankruptcy but making it part of your business model and using it as an exit strategy is a different thing.

    This seems to be his business: Start a project, inflate it in value, file for bankruptcy, move to next project.

    However people continue to do business with him because of the value of his name and brand.

    Just as an FYI our group does not sell to Australian’s and I wish more would jump on board instead of buying overpriced Australian properties. Its sad as most did get heavily screwed over by shady US turnkey operators.

    Why don’t you sell to Australians? Also why does it matter who you sell to?

    There you have it. I am trying to prove to you that I am successful and still have time to do a video and post a blog hahaha

    You have to do it mate. It’s part of your business. You need to market your business, your image and brand otherwise no one will know about you or trust you. Like you mentioned in your previous post. There is nothing wrong with that.

    People who really really want to learn should go out and do it themselves lollol

    That’s the best way to learn. Make mistakes and learn from them.

    That is a good way to learn. The best way to learn is to learn from mistakes of others first then go out there and try not to repeat those mistakes at least.

    FYI on your website you have this written:

    “A successful property investor that quit school at the age of 14 and built a property portfolio valued at over $1,000.000 in 6 months.”

    Is that supposed to be $1,000 or $1,000,000?

    superAndrew | Property Analyser and Finder Tool
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    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>EngeloRumora wrote:</div>
    I will reply to this post as I feel it was directed my way but I refuse to get into any Argy Bargy with you.

    I’m not trying to get into any Argy Bargy with you. It’s none of my business what you do. I am just pointing out something that people who are getting into investing should be aware of.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>EngeloRumora wrote:</div>
    As for the time factor. If you “like” Trumps page on Facebook you will find the odd video even from him. In his book “The Art of the Deal” it outlines his daily schedule and its crazy busy yet he still has time to do a video.

    Do you know how many times Trump has gone bankrupt? He has to do those video, write the books etc to build up and maintain his image so people can continue lending to him. That’s where his value lies: his image and name.

    When he files for bankruptcy he doesn’t loose any of his wealth that is protected through his legal structures. But someone is losing in the process.

    He said one time: “Many “great entrepreneurs” have used bankruptcy to restructure debt, free up capital and improve their businesses.” (Btw I wouldn’t call him an entrepreneur)

    Sometimes the best option is to file for bankruptcy but making it part of your business model and using it as an exit strategy is a different thing.

    This seems to be his business: Start a project, inflate it in value, file for bankruptcy, move to next project.

    However people continue to do business with him because of the value of his name and brand.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>EngeloRumora wrote:</div>
    Just as an FYI our group does not sell to Australian’s and I wish more would jump on board instead of buying overpriced Australian properties. Its sad as most did get heavily screwed over by shady US turnkey operators.

    Why don’t you sell to Australians? Also why does it matter who you sell to?

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>EngeloRumora wrote:</div>
    There you have it. I am trying to prove to you that I am successful and still have time to do a video and post a blog hahaha

    You have to do it mate. It’s part of your business. You need to market your business, your image and brand otherwise no one will know about you or trust you. Like you mentioned in your previous post. There is nothing wrong with that.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>EngeloRumora wrote:</div>
    People who really really want to learn should go out and do it themselves lollol

    That’s the best way to learn. Make mistakes and learn from them.

    That is a good way to learn. The best way to learn is to learn from mistakes of others first then go out there and try not to repeat those mistakes at least.

    FYI on your website you have this written:

    “A successful property investor that quit school at the age of 14 and built a property portfolio valued at over $1,000.000 in 6 months.”

    Is that supposed to be $1,000 or $1,000,000?

    Hi mate,

    Thanks for your reply.

    I didn’t know those few things you mentioned about Trump. Thanks for sharing.

    Australian investors have very much died down regarding US property mostly due to monies lost working with sharks and a booming market back home.

    The same old philosophy “buy high, hope to sell higher”. This same greed brought the USA to its knees also.

    You have to do it mate. It’s part of your business. You need to market your business, your image and brand otherwise no one will know about you or trust you. Like you mentioned in your previous post. There is nothing wrong with that.

    I’m glad we agree on the above :)

    Also, thanks for visiting my website and pointing out the error.

    It has now been corrected to $1billion lollol

    I wish hehe

    Thanks and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    Sorry Grasshopper but Toledo is a pig I’m afraid. Ohio and most industrial based midwest towns have been in decline for some time and there’s absolutely nothing coming that will turn that around.

    The Toledo population was 287,208 in 2012 compared to 313,587 in 2000. The Toledo, OH population has decreased by 8.4% from 2000 to 2012

    graph

    The 2010 Census produced mixed results for America’s “legacy cities,” that is deindustrialized cities located primarily, but not exclusively, in the Midwest and in the Mid-Atlantic states. While east coast cities like Newark and Philadelphia actually posted population gains, Midwestern Rust Belt cities generally continued their long slide down in terms of population growth. This proved especially true in the state of Ohio, formerly a key manufacturing hub and once arguably the heartland of Industrial North America. For not only have Ohio’s major cities continued to shrink, their population loss actually ACCELERATED from 2000 to 2010. The same largely holds true for the shrinking counties that are home to Ohio’s seven withering major cities.

    All of this leads to a central question: How long will it be before Ohio itself loses population? Much is at stake. Not just tax bases, representation in the house, and federal funding, but national relevance. With the decline of the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes region, Ohio’s internal decay is even more of a pressing issue.

    The state has been traditionally known for its “Big Eight” cities: Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Dayton, Canton, and Youngstown. All of these cities, save the capital city of Columbus, owe their existence to the explosion in manufacturing in the nineteenth and early twentieth century. Cleveland was an early leader in automotive production before diversifying into other manufacturing sectors as the twentieth century wore on. Youngstown was a steel center, known as “America’s Ruhr Valley.” Dayton’s manufacturing muscle grew on, among other things, automobiles, foundries, and printing plants. Toledo was also known for auto manufacturing and the glass industry.

    Suburbanization in the post-war era and deindustrialization hit Ohio’s cities as hard as any in the nation. From the early 1970s to the mid 1980s, Ohio’s manufacturing employment dropped by nearly 20 percent. Simultaneously, Ohio’s metropolitan areas decentralized. Seven of the Big Eight began to crumble, albeit at various speeds. The deterioration in the economic and social fortunes of Ohio’s cities through the 1980s has been well covered in a variety of venues. What has been less mentioned is that, unlike east coast legacy cities, the decline of Ohio’s major cities accelerated from 2000 to 2010. And according to 2012 U.S. Census Bureau estimates, the decline continues.

    Watch EconCat88 on YTube. Boy does that guy bag Toledo. The sad part is he’s a born there resident who actually tells it like it is.

    Then you go to RealtyTrac and do a search on Toledo forclosures for sale

    http://www.realtytrac.com/mapsearch/oh/toledo-foreclosures.html?sortbyfield=featured,desc

    ..now that blew me away. 270 pages with 10/page..Jeez and that with a city with only 280k

    This stat is worrying

    #28 on the list of “Top 100 cities with declining populations from 2000 to 2008

    Hi Catinthehat,

    Thanks for the information.

    Your missing something tho. Ohio Cashflow is here now.

    You should have seen the people celebrating in the streets throwing rose petals as we were driving in lollol

    Jokesss aside

    After living and breathing US property over the last 4 years and actually living here for the last 2 I have seen most of the “lower end” markets nation wide.

    None of them can compare with certain zip codes here in Toledo. The prices are very similar but the quality of area/schools/medical-shops in Toledo is top class. As mentioned in a previous post most of our sales are to owner occupiers.

    I am actually buying a house for my family and myself to move into in the same area we invest in.

    I am quite sure we are not “PIGS” lol although my nose is a little big (broke it 3 times playing soccer).

    Thanks and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    Profile photo of sciencesurfsciencesurf
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    Nathan is up to his old tricks again. Don’t think he got your memo, Catinthehat!

    His mug features more than the building. No logos. The usual thong get-up.

    The appeal lies in the laid-back approach. Yes it strays away from traditional business models (of which I know minimal about), but then again this is 2014….

    Keep producing the ‘amateur’ vids Engelo! haha

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Profile photo of sciencesurf sciencesurf.

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    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Catinthehat wrote:</div>
    Your missing something tho. Ohio Cashflow is here now.

    You remind me of my youngest son…. persuaded by passion and what’s happening in the moment and unable to see where trends and less visible markers are likely to take you.

    Old dogs like Jay and I have seen much of this stuff before and have a pretty good idea of how it ends. That doesn’t mean you’ll fall on your arse but it does suggest you’re hoeing a much tougher road than you need to.

    Life’s short and you’re a long time dead. Toledo has zero sex appeal for me and I much prefer sexy ;-)

    Thanks catinthehat,

    I wouldn’t say you and Jay are “old dogs” just slightly pruned hahahahaha

    Love your work mate and it would a pleasure meeting you some day. Maybe your son and I cross roads sometime ;)

    Have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    Keep producing the ‘amateur’ vids Engelo! haha

    lollol

    Thanks sciencesurf. I’ll do my best :)

    Ill give Nathan a call and tell him I look prettier in my videos hahahaha

    Thanks and have a great day.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of sciencesurfsciencesurf
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    From time to time I challenge them to point to a time I ever gave them bad advice. If they can I’ll stop giving it. They haven’t succeeded so far and even though they often ask for advice they seldom take it and prefer to do it their way. Oh to be young, ten foot tall and bullet proof again.

    Gotta be a fair bit of competition for drinkers out Thailand way? Sometimes its easier to take advice from someone who is not right all of the time! No offence to your parenting skills Cat :) I’m betting they’re a chip off the old block and just as stubborn and opinionated.

    And as super said before. Your failures make you stronger. As long as theres something left in the ashes to resurrect yourself!

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    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    lol

    Thanks Cat

    Its all good fun :)

    We all end up in the same place when all is said and done and we can’t take anything with us either.

    Thanks

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    Hey cat,

    Are you still flogging property in Florida and Texas? I thought your old mate would have jumped in by now. ;)

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    hey’re worse!!!Hard to get a word in edgeways and the buggers know-it-all (think they do)

    haha I can just imagine the dinner time conversations.

    Are we not due a dose of ‘reality’ Cat? I know your on the tools but with so many international doomsday markers popping up I’m sure your tempted to throw out a few stats. Seems that even with plunging iron ore prices, IMF downgrading, manufacturing losses, we seem to be absorbing any impact..

    sciencesurf
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    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    Hi Cat

    I could not agree with you more. They have just raised interest rates in New Zealand because property prices are now on a par with Sydney which is nuts. However the economy while the Australian economy is struggling. Thats what 6 years of mismanagement can do.

    I am seeing great opportunities in the United States because the economy is improving and with a lot of Americans moving to states like Texas and Florida those economies would seem to have a bright future.

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