All Topics / Creative Investing / Figures Don't Add up

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  • Profile photo of New Age PropertyNew Age Property
    Participant
    @new-age-property
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 15

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    I'm racking my brain, trying to come up with an attractive price to offer a couple who own 4000 sq m of land on a main road in a fast-growing outer northern suburb of Adelaide.
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    An existing house on the land is worth around $275K.
    The average price of vacant land in the area is $275 per sq m, for lots of around 500 sq m.
    Based on this, an RE agent told the couple their land is worth $900K-$1M.
    A 3 br house and land package in the area goes for $275-285K.
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    I want to build a small, gated retirement village on the land, with 5 units that have a community title, not one of those wicked "license to occupy" set-ups.
    Trouble is, when I do the sums, it can't work if I offer the owners anywhere near what they are asking.
    How can I put it to them that the market value is way lower than what the agent told them?
    I want to do this project but obviously I need their co-operation.

    Here are my rough figures:
     Credits             
    Sale of 5 units @ $275K ea     $1,375,000

    Sale of existing house                $275,000

                                                Total $1,650,000 

    Debits

    Developer Margin  33%
    of Project Value                                                  $544,500

    Construction costs
    5 X $1,200 per sq m
    X 120 sq m.                                                       $720,000

    Subdivision of land
    ? 6 X $30,000 per lot                                          $180,000

    Purchase of land                                                 $205,500

                                                                        Total $1,650,000 

    I've thought about adding more units to the village, but keep running into the stone wall of the $30K per lot subdivision cost.
    and the smaller the units, the lower the price.
    There must be some way to add value to this land so that everyone is happy.

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
    Participant
    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    I have no idea why you are approaching the idea of a five unit mini-retirement village on this block of land.

    Firstly the specs for a retirement unit these days are usually first class anyway .. and you wont end up with a nice package for the amount you ask.

    Secondly any retirement unit worth its salt has facilities on-call or standby so that any genuinely retired person needing assistance has a competant nurse or handyperson available should they be required.

    Finally the obvious … why would you be looking at a bunch of gated units behind a fence? A retiree wants security sociability and safety in his/her retirement lodge. By just having a gated fence you are actually doing the opposite and isolating the retiree.

    I work with 4000sqm of land all the time and you cannot possibly be approaching it from the right perspective. 4040sqm is an acre .. so you are working with a sizeable block of land. I manage to get 24 units into a block that size .. with underground parking facilities and even commercial shopfronts.

    The answer is really simple .. you are producing way too few structures on the land at the moment to validate and justify your purchase RELATIVE TO PRICE PAID. For some reason you are creating your own market rather than actually looking at what the site value per unit and the OUTCOME per unit will be.

    A developer isnt usually a fool. A developer is out there to make money and do that through working the best deal out of the land.

    I've built on 200sqm with the aid of an architect .. and built 18 townhouses on a 5000sqm non rectangular block.

    So with what you've got .. the problem isnt the price of the land (which probably already takes in the existing price per unit block site and just multiplies it for the total land area) but the way you are about to utilise it with what your designs are on top of it.

    Answer is .. land is worth a million. You have to use it better to justify that million to your further use.

    Development is a risky game. You may overguess the market's needs and end up with a fabulous product that people will still only pay the standard unit price for regardless of quality. I have done that once or twice .. and you learn from that quickly.

    Your block you have suggested is big enough to produce more than you can currently financially manage. Instead of restricting what is a large block to your budget .. why not STAGGER your development with a larger project in stages? That way you can condition the purchaser to the idea of the site having multiple units on it .. you can supply a plan that covers a larger body of units .. and then represent the current stage only !! Your budget covers the current stage with room to move .. and from the profits you can build the other stages as they come to hand.

    A retirement unit site works best when you have lots of people who you can interact and relate with. Having a large amount of units on the site tends to keep the overall expenses required by the retirees to a minimum as the costs are shared over a larger group.

    The other thing is .. having come across lovely little 5 or 6 unit sites like you are talking about creating .. they were usually achieved on the purchase of young blocks (in other words fresh subdivisions with new housing and cheap land). So it is possible to do what you are thinking .. just on a 400k acre .. rather than a million dollar one.

    Profile photo of New Age PropertyNew Age Property
    Participant
    @new-age-property
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 15

    Thanks for your thoughts xdrew.

    I'm giving up on the retirement village idea and going back to the drawing board and spreadsheet.

    As a result of your feedback I can see that my romantic intention to help prevent the elderly from being exploited by ruthless profiteers will not be applicable to this site at the sellers' asking price.

    So now I'm thinking 2 storey courtyard homes or townhouses, as many as possible on the land.

    They can still be New Age, so the market will have something that no one else is offering, and at a competitive price.

    Thanks for putting me straight.

    There is no way I can talk the seller down to $400K, so it makes absolute sense to refocus on to what the market wants rather than what I want the market to have.

    Profile photo of New Age PropertyNew Age Property
    Participant
    @new-age-property
    Join Date: 2014
    Post Count: 15

    After further thoughr Xdrew, I am wondering how to achieve the $1M value for this land that you mentioned.

    I've since discovered this comparable property:

    http://www.realestate.com.au/property-residential+land-sa-willaston-200671327

    6000sq m that brought $320K – around $50 / sq m.

    I just emailed the owners  that a more realistic price for the above land is $350K. (4000sq m @ $50/sq m + $150K for existing house)

    No reply as yet.

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
    Participant
    @xdrew
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 479

    As discussed in the context of the 'market comparison' that you sent .. the property was DISCOUNTED by 200k before being sold at the price of 330k-340k (eventual sale price undisclosed)

    **************************************************************************************************

    17 Knight Street Willaston

    UNDER INSTRUCTIONS FROM MORTGAGEE! $330,000-$340,000

    UNDER CONTRACT

    MASSIVE 200K REDUCTION!

    This is your one and only chance to purchase prime residential land in heart of Willaston…Located on a magnificent street on a huge 6,640sqm allotment is this vacant parcel of land waiting to be developed!!!

    * All sub-division is at Council Consent

    * 6,640sqm

    * Zoned Residential

    * Hop onto the Northern Expressway

    * GST EXCLUSIVE

    * Minutes to schools, shops, transport and all that Gawler's Main Street offers

    **************************************************************************************************

    It was a one-off mortgagee sale and the discount of 200k on any price is very unusual without good reason.

    the property remains a poor market comparison for the property you've sought out.

    The idea would be to try to find out what is the agent's realistic value of the land, or another agent's idea of what the land value represents.

    There is no reason why you cant try to purchase a property advertised at a listed price at a discount from the vendor .. just think as to your approach and negotiations to achieve your discount.

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