Hi everyone
I was in a property recently, taking photos of items I felt needed renovation and taking dimensions, to be asked by the REA not to take photos, and they appeared rather put out that I was taking some time investigating the property. They explained that they didn't like people taking photos as it was someone's private property.
This made me wonder how other investors inspect properties that require renovation to determine the reno costs (and the final buying price). I realise over time, experienced renovators can look at a unit (be it kitchen, bathroom, painting etc) and guesstimate a figure fairly accurately, however, do you also take photos of the items and and take these photos to tradies for their quote? I am not sure if tradies would like to walk through an open house to provide quotes on the spot on the off chance that you will purchase the property and contract them to do the renos?!? Other ideas?
What happens if the property is highly competative (good price, tight market) and you you need to make the decision quickly. Do you guesstimate the renovation costs during the inspection to incorporate into your buying budget? Take photos and send to tradies for a closer approximation then make the offer?
ChrisA1
Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'
It depends I inspected 3 properties yesterday (reno delights) for my own portfolio and I took plenty of pictures. It really depends on the agent.
My advise is get yourself a builder. Build (sorry for the pun) a relationship with him and for real opportunities take him with you on site. I have my builder and take him to sites but only if im genuine about purchasing the property as I dont want to waste his time.
Regrds
Shahin
TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
http://www.elitepropertyfinance.com
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What items are you talking bout taking photos of?
We strip the kitchen and bathroom so it doesn't matter what it looks like (it's going in the skip bin).
A kitchen price won't change in price much f it's a bit bigger or smaller. Same with a bathroom. The extra cost comes if you want to change the layout.
So pretty standard with pricing once you've done one or two. We budget $15,000 for a standard 3 bed reno- new kitchen, new bathroom, polished floors, carpet in bedrooms, lino in laundry, paint. Then just add extra's if necessary eg driveway, paint roof etc. Things that aren't standard to all. Our last one was a burnt out so added some for new gyprock and I paid someone to paint the outside.
Hi Catalyst
Just to clarify for Chris the $15,000 estimate doesn't include labor, as I have noticed from your previous posts you do your own work, and I would be very happy to see so much achieved for $15,000.
Regards,
Tony
Hi Catalyst
What are the labour costs around on a standard 3 bedder?
If they say no to taking photos then I don't get annoyed. I usually set my iPhone to film mode and just casually walk around pretending i am typing a message to my partner about how bad this house is.
Your are there first and foremost to gather as much information to make a business decision which would financially impact you in a negative way if you couldn't gather the information you need to make such a decision. So to the REA i pay no mind. come take my phone away. I have respect for peoples personal belongings I'm just here to make a business decision.
and yes I 100 % guesstimate my figures because I already know from previous experience what its going to cost. My partner and I try to play games with each other for renovations. Looking at properties that we know would require a 20-30 k renovation and we say… Lets do this for under 10K. Makes it pretty clear cut what the most important items are to renovate and also stimulates your brain to think, i Have 1500 to finish this kitchen (with labour) how am going to do it for that price.
Suddenly your on ebay, auction sites, ex kitchen suites. You might spend 15k on the renovation but thats a lot less then the 20-30k you actually thought it would take because you actually challenged yourself to find the best deal.
I cant understand some people when they just get one quote for something and accept thats the price. I spend 5 minutes on the phone and find somebody who would do it for 100 dollars less. Thats 100 dollars in my pocket.
I think a big cost saver is to just get trades to quote for labor only. not supplying the material. example for a house thats getting carpet laid this week for me. First quote 1500 supplied installed. Second quote 1400 supplied installed, went back to first quote said how much for supply only they said 850 pick up from the warehouse, called 2 of my carpet layers, one said he would do it for 300 and he would pick it up.
so 1500 down to 1150 same product within a hour, You could say i earn 350 bucks a hour.
Hi Catalyst,
Can you please provide some sample breakdown of cost for your Reno including labor costs. Also tell us if this cost is going to be UP or down, if we do the same thing in regional NSW like Hunter region or other places. assuming your Reno is in western Sydney.
Thanks
Just to clarify the $15,000 was an all up cost. Yes we do a lot ourselves. First 2 days strip everything out (kitchen, bathroom etc). We strip gyprock if necessary, strip wallpaper, carpet, prepare walls, paint. We put gyprock up, and cornices and set.
Friend (electrician) does electrical. We pay a plumber (mates rates). We also pay my BIL for about a week (this includes him and my hubby installing the kitchen). We also pay a tiler to waterproof and tile the bathroom. We also pay to get floors sanded and of course carpet laid.
So there is labour included in that cost.
Our last one (burnt out) cost $25,000. We paid someone to paint the outside of the house and to spray the roof.
It's on youtube if you are interested. http://www.youtube.com/user/LovetoReno/videos just under 5 weeks, nights, weekends (a few sick days off work sshhh) $25,000 total spend. Estimated equity gain $90K.
Labour costs vary depending on area and how busy they are. Once you get a good one, hang onto them. If doing regional and not willing to go there for a week or two your costs will be up.
The big things most people overspend on are kitchens and bathrooms.
Yes our last 4 reno's have been in Western Sydney.
Thanks Catalyst for the detailed information. Will you help out Renovation projects in Hunter area
Many thanks for your knowledge and comments here Catalyst.
Your comments have made me think that I need to be your shadow for a while…. (ok possibly joking, but behind every joke there is a serious side…. great way to learn is to follow someone who is successfully doing it!)
ChrisA1
Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'
Chris funny you say that. In 2011 I asked if anyone wanted to come and see our reno (and maybe pick up a paintbrush) but no-one was interested. I would have jumped at the chance had someone offered that a few years ago when we started full renos.
We haven't bought an IP for 12 months but are over renos at the moment with our new PPOR. Really lookinmg forward to a holiday then start looking in the second half of the year. Possibly buy/reno/sell a I don't want any more hold properties. We are going to start selling down in 2 years (come on Sydney boom). LOL .
Sydey- normally be glad to but STUFFED with our current huge project and don't want to touch anything until after our holiday. Then we need to put a new kitchen in and then look at buying.
Good luck with the renos. If you love it, it's great. We love it but have done a lot in the last 3 years and now need a rest. But we'll be back. We have to, we have a huge garage full of reno stuff.
Doh!!
In 2011, I may not have been ready to absorb all the info I'm sure you would have passed on, but if it was today, I would have jumped at the chance! It would be great to talk with people, walk through projects etc and see on the ground what is being chosen, why, what calculations are done (and more importantly the magic figures) etc. Will keep reading and looking for opportunities to look at and talk through reno projects.
The current house prices in Sydney are stalling progress a little (harder to find those low priced gems – bottom end of the market seems to be moving quickly).
Enjoy your time off, certainly sounds as though it's well deserved and hope to keep hearing your great insights on the forums during/after your break.
ChrisA1
Persistence is 'to keep on keeping on, no matter how hard the going may be'
From past experience of over a few hundred renovations that we have designed, budget on approx $2000 to $2500 per sq.m. for the extension area. Depending on the extent of renovating to the existing area , budget on approx $1800 to $2000 per sq.m. Naturally the larger the renovation and or extension the less it will cost per sq.m. Good access will help with the costs. If you are adding in an en-suite or bathroom, add an addition $15,000. For roofed decks budget on approx $750 to $1000 per sq.m. If are raising the home add approx $10,000 to $20,000 depending on size. We have found using our concept design sketch from the on-site meeting, we can obtain a estimate from a builder and then by adding 5% to 10% will bring you close to the final costs depending on the quality of fittings.
Catalyst – just checked out your YouTube vids. Very nice!
Looks like you had to replace flooring in the hallway – was that difficult to do?
Thanks,
babyflynn
Thanks. We are very happy with the result. Good equity gain and CF+
Normally we would have polished floorboards but because of the damage we just carpeted. Just cut back the burnt floorboards and replaced. Not too bad.
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