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  • Profile photo of Tony FlemingTony Fleming
    Participant
    @the-dark-knight
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 396

    Dont worry I'm not talking massive amounts of money! I have a joint venture partner who is itching to get into the property game. Unfortunately they have just changed jobs and the bank doesn't seem to interested in allowing for them to borrow until they have worked for 3 months. We have found a few studio apartments that are cash flow positive for quite cheap low 40k's. I have my half in cash and they have 12k so it would only be a small personal loan. Obviously we would prefer to get a home loan for deductions and to invest more of our money elsewhere but the banks aren''t to favourable on studio apartments anyway. If they were to get a personal loan would it still be tax deductible and any issues they may face apart from high interest?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

    Tony Fleming | Triumphant Property Group
    http://www.triumphantpropertygroup.com.au
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    NSW Buyer's Agent specialising in Western Sydney-Blue Mountains-Orange-Albury

    Profile photo of TheFinanceShopTheFinanceShop
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    @thefinanceshop
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,271

    There are at least 3 lenders that don't have an employment duration policy. Tackle that option first before venturing into personal loans. 

    Personal loans can work but they also do hurt your application strength. Again re-visit the possibility of your mate getting a loan.

    Regards

    Shahin

    TheFinanceShop | Elite Property Finance
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    Profile photo of wilko1wilko1
    Participant
    @wilko1
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 510

    Yes still tax deductible. But correct me if I'm wrong finance gurus. If your friend took a 20k loan and spent 15k on the house and 5 k on say a new tv he would have a harder time claiming the interest as a tax deduction, it could be apportioned but would prob get messy 

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Is a 3 month wait really that bad? 

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
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    Profile photo of DerekDerek
    Member
    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544
    JacM wrote:
    Is a 3 month wait really that bad? 

    Agree with this – patience grasshopper.

    Being a studio apartment (bad investment in my opinion) chances are there will be plenty available over the course. If you are going down this pathway make sure NET cashflow is extremely strong.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Wait – are these good investments? What is the return after expenses. Would you be better off  putting your money in the bank?

    What is the CG or loss potential? Think of the opportunity cost. tying up your money. Could you use a SMSF?

    Think about other entities lending you the money too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of N@thanN@than
    Participant
    @n-than
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 241

    Agree with Terry on the return after expenses, especially with properties with such a low cost base and low rents. A couple of hundred dollars in unexpected expenses could eat away a couple of weeks rent and turn it from positive to negative cashflow.

    I am guessing the unit may be in Cairns? Just be careful up North, the insurance's seem to be rising from all the cyclone damage claims and could easily eat up your cashflow.

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    My suggestion…

    Borrow a couple of good novels from the library to pass the time for the next 3 months.  Borrowing books from the library is free.  At the same time, it will give you something to do so you don't go out on the town and spend money.  Save save save.  In 3 months time, look at buying something that is actually worth buying.

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
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    Profile photo of BigCubezBigCubez
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    @bigcubez
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 48

    I think I saw those ones in Cairns your referring to. Small studio apartments on the outskirts of a small, tourism based city. Wouldn't like to spend my money there.

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    @nigel-kibel
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,425

    I agree with Jacqui

    Studio apartments are a bad investment if they are in Cairns then they are a bad investment in a bad area. Whoever is recommending them I am sure is making a big commission. I think you would be throwing your money away. The market is at the bottom it will take time but there is no need to rush. 

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    Profile photo of Tony FlemingTony Fleming
    Participant
    @the-dark-knight
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 396

    No its not in cairns and its not a on site managed property. Long term tenant close to shops. I’ve done some numbers and if i were to pur hase my share with no loan it would be cash flow positive by $33pw i underatand peoples concern about capital growth but i have the foundations of my portfolio as capital growth and neutral cashflow im just trying to generate a bit more cashflow. Good to hear some negative feedback but lol :/

    Tony Fleming | Triumphant Property Group
    http://www.triumphantpropertygroup.com.au
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    NSW Buyer's Agent specialising in Western Sydney-Blue Mountains-Orange-Albury

    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    Hi Dark Knight

    Have I understood correctly… you are prepared to put two hundred thousand of your chips on the board for a return of only $33 a week?  That is a return of less than 1% per year.  (33 x 52 / 200,000) * 100  = 0.8%.

    You would be substantially better off simply putting your money in a term deposit or high interest bearing bank account, if your aim is cash flow.

    Alternatively you could split your $200k into three piles, buy three houses (with say an 80% bank loan) that are cash flow neutral or thereabouts in year 1.  In year 2, whack the rent up say $20 each per week.  That's a $60 per week return.  Already better yield than the studio apartment.  In year 3 what do you do?  That's right, you put the rent up again.  And so your yield goes up.  This is just a glimpse of the cashflow side of the argument.  Not even bothering to look at the capital growth situation or the re-saleability of the dwellings (you can resell houses to investors or proud home owners that are foolish enough to overpay because they just love the place.  A studio, you can pretty much only sell to hard-nosed investors who are never interested in overpaying).

    Definitely don't mean to offend with my points… just to be blunt enough to get you thinking outside the current frame of thought and consider the other options wink

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
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    Profile photo of Jacqui MiddletonJacqui Middleton
    Participant
    @jacm
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 2,539

    ah just noticed the buy price was in the $40ks, not $400ks. Apologies Dark Knight !  Oh well, my post is vaguely educational for someone to read one day, and there is no delete button for it, so it will remain in place.

    However.  a place you can buy for $40k today… unlikely to go up in value much given it is a studio.  I remember looking at studios and thinking oh wow, goldmine, I could get one of them without much bother.  The darn things are worth less today than they were 8 years ago.  Glad I didn't jump the gun and buy one.

    So this $33 per week yield then. Let's talk about that.  That's $1716 per year.  Just to get a visual on how much of that can erode, let's look at some of the holding costs an investor can come up against.  Dripping tap results in plumber call out and he deems new taps are needed and however much of his time is needed to sort it out.  There goes a few hundred bucks right there.  A hot water service bursts… new one plus install labour required.  There goes $1100.  Something wrong with the crappy standalone oven.  Sparky attends only to announce there is no point fixing it as the cost of doing so would exceed that of a new oven.  So now you pay sparky callout fee plus another $650 for an oven.  You get the idea.  Your so called return can evaporate very easily.

    You want property in which at a bare minimum you can hike the rent by at least $500 a year, almost what it costs to replace an oven, but you also need the property to be going up in value.  This would enable you to sell it for profit or at least break even if you had to, or better still, do a refinance job on it to enable freeing up of funds for other purchases or to assist with maintenance costs.  But you don't want to borrow against an asset that is not at least rising in value in line with inflation!

    Jacqui Middleton | Middleton Buyers Advocates
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    VIC Buyers' Agents for investors, home buyers & SMSFs.

    Profile photo of N@thanN@than
    Participant
    @n-than
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 241

    Could be wrong but I am pretty sure the apartment is only $40k and using 20k of his own money?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    If there is no growth potential there is no point.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of mattstamattsta
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    @mattsta
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 604

    I would not recommend you to invest in studio apartments. I doubt you will get a good cash flow from this investment and studio apartments usually do not go up in price due to low interest in this kind of rental. Did you consider investing your money in houses? 2-3 bedroom house would generate better cash flow.

    Profile photo of tlm1987tlm1987
    Member
    @tlm1987
    Join Date: 2013
    Post Count: 31

    To broaden the scope;

    Would it be worth borrowing 10k to buy an IP if you had say the other 10k

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
    Participant
    @nigel-kibel
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,425

    Thats still $120,000 for no growth and a low return. We develop property for investing that sort of money you would make $36,000 without having your money tied up in a second rate investment. Or use the $120,000 and then the $36,000 to buy a property to renovate or just buy a high growth property. The over $150,000 that is going to make the property you buy either positive cash flow or at least revenue neutral and have solid growth.

    You need to think outside the square, if you tie up all your money in something without growth you also have to consider the.opportunity cost. In other words if a great deal comes up you have all your recourses tied up in three duds.

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