All Topics / Overseas Deals / Just a thought and possible future exit strategies For USA properties

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
    Participant
    @alex-sc
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 585

    this was posted here a few months back and I just reprinted this in my newsletter  thought I would share this.

    After numerous conversations with International and National  clients the last few weeks, we are looking at viable exit strategies with the USA properties down the road. I am not sold on the 5 year return that a lot of other investors are speaking about ( I am seeing prices rise faster in all markets faster then we anticipated ). I am also concerned about us turning retail areas into glorified rental markets ( I still see this as a concern but that is where the article below would come in). This is a big concern for me, as I see some international clients thinking in 5 to 10 years they can sell these deals that they are purchasing, in hopes of capturing appreciation.( Which I can see happening now but selling to investors or funds buying these deal ) My first concern is that Americans in general  do not move to rental areas. This could change with the new nicer rental homes that we and other companies are now dealing with. Again, this is purely speculation for down the road. I do see most of these renters will not get loans in current situations but 6 to 10 years from  now could be different story .

    So if one is buying for buy and hold  (cash flow) and not really concerned about future appreciation, this should not interest them. If one is looking at being able to sell in 10 – 12 or 15 years, this could be a viable option. Again, this is just my opinion, but I am not sold on appreciation coming back in 5 to 7 years( changing daily ). The USA is going through some problems that are new for us. I do see us as a strong resilient nation, and expect things to come back to a reasonable pricing point.  To me, this 5 to 7 year plan is more of a marketing strategy for the sales teams when they say buy now and in 5 years, the market will rebound. Again, I am not saying anyone is wrong, I am  just saying I am not sold on this concept.  At least not for the markets I have been to, which include all USA investment markets except Texas (I have not been there).

    Just some background information: the phrase 'lease option" in the USA. To me this is really just another false phrase (just a marketing ploy). Property management companies use it to hopefully bring in a better tenant. Besides putting some extra cash in your pocket as the investor with a slightly larger down payment, I don't see this set up as a win-win situation. Investors might win with extra cash, but tenants are not being taken care of. Yes, the tenants are the most important factor (besides property management for investors in today's real estate market). Our property management company sets most lease options (rentals) for our tenants. I know in the beginning very few will buy. Not to sound repetitive, but this is more for our marketing end to keep properties filled.

    Now again, in the end this will really come down to each individual investor's game plan or investment strategy when they get started. This below is what we are looking at in the markets, in which we buy and sell homes. Again, these are for cash buyers only. One cannot truly owner finance an existing property with financing on that property. Some people will do this (sub lease and creative financing)  but I think they are playing in a gray area where loans can be called "due". Our thinking is for cash deals only. This would only work for investors who purchased cash

    Owner Financing is what we are talking about here.Let's start off talking about the advantages of owner financing. Everyone has this high expectation that in 5 years or so the homes they are purchasing today in the U.S. will be able to be sold at this high retail price. The only true way to do this is to Owner Finance the property. You can sell the home to a buyer at tomorrow's value today (Which is a risk for the back end buyer).  Here is the way that it should be done to give you, as the owner, the most security as possible. You would do owner financing for the person looking to purchase your home (current renter). This is done just like any other Real Estate closing, through an attorney. You would want to set this up in the beginning, the buyer will be paying a balloon note. This can be set up we are thinking on an 8 – 10 – 12 year mortgage note.

    This will put them in a position to where they need to refinance to pay off the investor. Secondly, every home should have a deed in lieu signed at closing. This will circumvent any costly foreclosure fees and the lengthy time that is involved. If the buyer does go into default, it is a $30.00 fee to file the deed in lieu and the home is returned to you. Now keep in mind, that when you do owner financing, the buyer is now responsible for the taxes, insurance and any HOA's. You will be named as the insured on the insurance policy. This is another advantage of doing the owner financing, as everyone knows property values in the US have fallen greatly. Most of your retail neighborhoods have fallen victim to this and have started turning into rental areas. Rental neighborhoods will take much longer to recover. By doing owner financing you and other investors are actually helping to prevent these neighborhoods from turning into rental areas and bring the home values back up, or at the very least keep the values in the area sustained. Of course, you can only owner finance if you yourself or company own the property free and clear. This is a major benefit for you the owner, the home buyer, and the actual neighborhood.

    Again, this is our company looking at viable options for getting out of properties a few years from now. With  subprime not coming back we are working on rolling this into the lower end homes as well. You just got to be realistic on keeping payments affordable for the back end potential buyer. Looking at cash flow here and how to capture this part of the buyer spectrum that lost in the USA

    Profile photo of SAHSAH
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    @sah
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 28

    Alex interesting post….

    You noted in your post “My first concern is that Americans in general  do not move to rental areas” What is your definition of a rental area? Would a 70% owner occupant, 30% rental fall into this category? What percentages are we talking about where by your definition a property would be considered to be in a “rental area “

    With the “lease option” strategy  in todays market, what do you feel would be the option exercise “buy price” (if we are talking in percentages). Say if the property was worth 70k today what would you be looking at offering it at as the option buy price in say 5 years?

    My concern with this strategy is that you are capping growth potential. Say you set the buy price at $100k in 5 years (worth 70k today) and in 5 years time the property is worth $150k. It is likely the occupant WILL exercise the option and buy the property at 100k. If on the other hand there has been no growth and the price is still 70k in 5 years time it is unlikely the occupant will exercise the option.

    So the way I see it if you view that we are going to experience strong growth then the lease option is probably not a good idea if on the other hand you think we are not going to experience much growth then there could be an upside with immediate cashflow using this strategy. For international investors another consideration is the exchange rate and where it will be in 5 years time. If the option is exercised in 5 years and we are forced to "sell" what do we do with the US dollars if its not a favourable time to exchange the currency to Australian Dollars? Remember we are selling a 150k property at 100k, its not like we can buy another property valued at  150k with the 100k we have just received.

    I personally feel we will see some good growth over 5 years on well selected properties purchased at the right price. I prefer the flexibility of being able to time the sale and price based on market conditions at that time.

    Alex, I would just like to add that  my comments above are based on owner financing / option strategy's as we understand them to work in Australia, perhaps what you describe is a little different.

    Karina Perez Ronderos

    Phone +61 412 900 111

    http://www.selectamericanhomes.com

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Hi Alex

    I must admit i totally agree with you about the strategy going forward and something i have been saying for years as the only way for international investors to get involved with the US market given the difficulties with property management.

    I have been involved in Vendor Finance here in Australia for 15 years and built my property portfolio on the back of such income producing strategies.

    With your model can you tell me who would find and assess the potential new purchaser ?

    Be interested to hear from you in this regards.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
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    @alex-sc
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 585

     Karina it has been a long time we did speak about year ago but as I recall good conversation .Hope all is well for you and I did see some of your homes your sourced in Atlanta ( nice )

    You noted in your post “My first concern is that Americans in general  do not move to rental areas” What is your definition of a rental area? Would a 70% owner occupant, 30% rental fall into this category? What percentages are we talking about where by your definition a property would be considered to be in a “rental area “ I would say any area that is 50 to 60 % rental and that continues to produce more rental homes  with in that area .In Charlotte  NC I call them vinyl villages.

    With the “lease option” strategy  in todays market, what do you feel would be the option exercise “buy price” (if we are talking in percentages). Say if the property was worth 70k today what would you be looking at offering it at as the option buy price in say 5 years?Lease option is a scam in the US and was never set for the buyer to buy . It  was more for the investors to make down payment money and evict. Owner Financing is much different , as they is actual close and recorded at court house . Now  TRUE LEASE OPTION is and can be done with 3 forms in NC and SC . Tenant is a renter, with rental agreement , then there is an option contract, followed by a purchase contract.

    My concern with this strategy is that you are capping growth potential. Say you set the buy price at $100k in 5 years (worth 70k today) and in 5 years time the property is worth $150k. It is likely the occupant WILL exercise the option and buy the property at 100k. If on the other hand there has been no growth and the price is still 70k in 5 years time it is unlikely the occupant will exercise the option. You are 100 % correct but this is where it has to be a win win situation for every one involved. We want to set this up so they can buy and hopefully there will be some equity in for the back end buyer. Again this is a chance we are willing to take to turn more renters into home owners.

    So the way I see it if you view that we are going to experience strong growth then the lease option is probably not a good idea if on the other hand you think we are not going to experience much growth then there could be an upside with immediate cashflow using this strategy. For international investors another consideration is the exchange rate and where it will be in 5 years time. If the option is exercised in 5 years and we are forced to "sell" what do we do with the US dollars if its not a favourable time to exchange the currency to Australian Dollars? Remember we are selling a 150k property at 100k, its not like we can buy another property valued at  150k with the 100k we have just received. This will increase cash flow now as taxes and insurance would be paid by the  new home owner . I think there will continue to be homes available but not like the Atlanta prices when you got in. The markets are all seeing prices rise in the USA. I do not things this is true appreciation but more investor speculation driving the prices up. There is other opportunities like land w, we are buying 31 lot development buy price is $15k a lot . ( cant say more or I would be advertising LOL )

    I personally feel we will see some good growth over 5 years on well selected properties purchased at the right price. I prefer the flexibility of being able to time the sale and price based on market conditions at that time. Who would be the buyer  for you at the time is what worries me , again most USA buyers would not go to a rental area to buy. Not saying your houses are or would be in rental as you sourced and purchased nice homes. I am looking at about 30 to 40 % of mine and my real estate partners homes to do this with.

    Alex, I would just like to add that  my comments above are based on owner financing / option strategy's as we understand them to work in Australia, perhaps what you describe is a little different.

    Yes owner finance is selling a home at set price in today market 125k and set interest rate say 6 % ( fictitious numbers ) I would set on 6 , 8 10 year note.The tenant now has pride in home ownership while also paying taxes and insurance. There is an actual close ( lawyer closing ) recorded at court house as a sale.( Simple version )

    I am doing three things first setting comps in the area I just sold the home so now I have a comp to help furtue sales in area.I raised my cash flow no longer paying taxes , insurance. I created a home owner who other wise most likely be long term renter. Changing that area one house at a time .

    Talk soon trying to finish off the the year on strong note while closing next week. We have completed 93 homes in NC and SC this year with 9 more in rehab currently and 4 more to close before year is out.

    Sorry for any grammar or spelling as typing and spelling is my worst areas.

    Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
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    @alex-sc
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 585

    Hi Alex

    I must admit i totally agree with you about the strategy going forward and something i have been saying for years as the only way for international investors to get involved with the US market given the difficulties with property management.

    I shut down our property management over 6 months ago as we were losing money every month.Its some thing I have been struggling with opening up again. So we been working on ways to over come that option.

    I have been involved in Vendor Finance here in Australia for 15 years and built my property portfolio on the back of such income producing strategies.

    With your model can you tell me who would find and assess the potential new purchaser ? My real estate partner has 20 years in the Mortgage side of things here in the USA. We still put renters in homes looking for DTI about 30% to 36 % .  So we have a hand in the process.We are looking at the lower end homes which we own many. The old subprime market here in the USA we figure some of these are good potential clients for this.  Our Mortgage lender in NC is looking at these clients at potential closing down the road. So we would still run them to see where they are at financially before we made any decision. Again this is not a total answer just one of many potential exit strategies.

    Be interested to hear from you in this regards.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    One of the policies which i believe sets us out from the others who offer VF in Australia is that we allow the purchaser to choose their own property.

    We take applications from potential buys who go thru a process of making an formal credit application to us and we then issue a Conditional letter of offer giving them a maximum purchase price to go to.

    We state that if you locate a property for XYZ we will buy it and sell it to them for XYZ + 20K (or whatever profit figure we want)When they find a property we negotiate with the vendor / agent and then issue them a new letter of offer depending on the actual purchase price.

    The property might be listed for say $108K and we negotiate a purchase price of $100K.

    We may have told them they would be paying $130K assuming $108K purchase price. 

    I assess the credit worthiness of all applications for First Home Owners Group as well as deals we do for investors etc.

    Works well as they have a property they want to live in and are keen to keep up the repayments.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    @zmagen
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 523

    Thoughtful and comprehensive post, Alex, thank you. diverse exit strategies are a must in any market, and should never rely on whether speculations become reality or not – giving this issue the ample consideration it deserves separates the professionals from the fly-by-nighters, in my opinion.

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
    http://www.nippontradings.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Partner & Executive Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

    Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
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    @alex-sc
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 585

    Good Points

    I want to do this with homes we purchase $250k to $2m I know this is a different market then most here speak about. Before the crash in 2007 I was dealing in $1.5m to $2,5 m dollar homes in charlotte. Alot of this inventory still out there that can be picked up cheap but no value in it today. As what you buy is what it is worth but looking downt he road is the potential.

    Then the low end $75k and under this is only way that part of the market will buy again for long time.I do not see subprime coming back any time soon .

    Talk soon

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Hi Alex

    Are you going to find many Australian Investors purchase for cash properties in the US for $250 – $2M bracket that they then are happy to on sell via Vendor Finance.

    They can do the same thing in Australia without the issues of currency movement and gear to 80% with the lenders consent.

    At the lower end of the market they could see capital gain by way of an increased end sale price which i could appreciate.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of PrimePropertyInvestorPrimePropertyInvestor
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    @primepropertyinvestor
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 48

    I agree with Qlds007, 

    Why would you do something abroad in USA what you can do at home? I agree some people get bored and want more risk and unknown – then this might be a good option.

    All the best Alex.

    Regards,

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    @nigel-kibel
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,425

    The best exit strategy to buy in the USA is not by crap in the first place

    If you buy $40,000 single homes in bad areas you have a problem

    I like commercial properties and that can include small apartment complexes because you can borrow up to 60% oif the value. So clearly the banks see these investments as safer, plus we are at the bottom of the market so there are great opportunities for growth as long as you are selective.

    However if you want to buy cheap properties in America because you cannot afford to buy in Australia then please stay out of the US market

    Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
    http://propertyknowhow.com.au
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    We have just launched a new website join our membership today

    Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
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    @alex-sc
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 585

    Richard comment was in general speaking.

    Lower end homes for me are priced here in charlotte from $95k to $160k yes appreciation factor

    we got away from buying low end homes 50k And under not worth the headaches.

    Even know this is an Australian forum I connected with the following countries off this site.,

    London, Kuwait , Singapore , Malaysia , Hong Kong , Dubai , and Now South Africa and many cities in Australia  

    So I speak in general not just for Aussie investor

    Talk soon

    Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
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    @alex-sc
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    True but most people here are not buying commercial and most are just starting out .

    Advice is simple there for a reason take it or leave it …

    Commercial is the way to go but not for the newbie.

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