All Topics / Help Needed! / First Australian property!

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  • Profile photo of Gazza21Gazza21
    Participant
    @gazza21
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 54

    Any help greatly appreciated,

    I'm looking to buy my first Australian property. If I buy a PPOR first as a PR I can qualify for the FHOG and stamp duty concession, which if I buy a $500k PPOR will help me out with (correct me if I'm wrong) ;

    $7k + $17,765 = $24,765 towards the purchase. Brilliant.

    The problem is I'm not afraid of a little delayed gratification and am happy to stay in my rental (or move to a cheaper one because the freakin landlord keeps putting the rent up!) I wouldn't mind buying a positive cash flow IP first, and sub-letting a room in my rental. This will slightly increase my income, reduce my expenses and mean I should easily save enough to purchase another property later in 2013. I know the best strategy at the mo is probably forced equity/increasing value but I've done a huge reno in the past and am over it for now  :-) 

    So my questions are to do with what the implications of buying an IP before an PPOR are;

    1: Is the stamp duty higher for an IP (in WA)?

    2: Is there any way I can still get FHOG and stamp duty concession if I buy IP first, then PPOR next year or later?

    3: Although It won't help buying in a trust if i'm a trustee, what about if I buy an IP in a trust, with a company as trustee and me as director or is that just as useless? Any estimated annual costs for related accounting etc?

    4: If that does help, are fees, interest rates, stamp duty, land tax, and any other costs higher when lending to /buying in a company/trust structure? By roughly how much? That could soon turn positive cashflow upside down!?   

    I guess i'm being cheeky and asking if I can have my cake and eat it but if there's any way I can buy the IP i've seen, keeeping the costs low enough for it to remain cash+ and still qualify for those concessions next time life would be pretty sweet!! Otherwise I may build a PPOR.

    Again any answers/help greatly appreciated :-)

    Gazza

    Profile photo of Gazza21Gazza21
    Participant
    @gazza21
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 54

    Any ideas anyone?

    Profile photo of jclimiejclimie
    Member
    @jclimie
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 10

    Gazza I'm pretty inexperienced myself so I don't want to tell you something that sounds like wisdom when it's not but as nobody else has answered you yet I may as well get the ball rolling. 

    In relation to the FHOG, I looked into this in Tas a few years ago. Back then the rules were that you could buy an IP if it remains as an IP and you don't claim the FHOG for it. Down the track when you do buy a PPOR you can then claim the FHOG. Doing that though is counting on the fact that the rules will be the same at that time down the track when you do buy the PPOR. There is no guarantee that the rules won't have changed by that point. I just contacted the State Revenue Office in Tas and asked them about it. There were a few people there who gave me vague answers to the effect that it was not possible, so I kept contacting different people until I got a clear answer ie someone who clearly knew what they were talking about, cited the relevant legislation etc. I suggest you call the equivalent office in WA and ask them about it, and don't accept vague answers from the receptionist who thinks he knows what he's talking about. Some mortgage brokers may have a bit of an idea too.

    At the end of the day though, not taking any stamp duty implications into account (which I don't know about anyway), it's only $7k, and a well chosen IP should make up for this. 

    There is a discussion somewhere on this forum of buying PPOR v renting and putting the money towards IPs. I can't find it now but it's on here so have a bit of a look. Basically though, most people agreed that renting and buying IPs is the way to go. 

    In regards to the question of buying in a trust/corporation setup is this to try to help you claim the FHOG? I don't know how it would affect you in that sense – take it up with the State Revenue Office. There are different tax rates for companies than for individuals, but there are also implications for asset protection. People often use a trust/corporation setup to protect their investments so that if someone breaks their neck on one property and sues the landlord for all he's worth, they can only actually get at the one property. If you're planning to build a big portfolio it is very smart to think about it from the beginning because it is much harder to change the structure later on (and can cost you money). If that's the way you're going though you really need to see professionals who are familiar with that area, ie a lawyer and an accountant who understand property investing. Perhaps some of our WA friends can give you a few leads. 

    Hope this helps, good luck. 

    Profile photo of Gazza21Gazza21
    Participant
    @gazza21
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 54

    Thanks jclimie.

    I figured it probably had been covered at some point but couldn't find the thread when I searched.

    I have been told since that I can still qualify for FHOG later but will lose the stamp duty concession by buying IP before PPOR. However, according to http://www.finance.wa.gov.au/cms/content.aspx?id=2011 if you qualify for the FHOG, you qualify for the stamp duty concession. I think like you say I need to contact them in the morning and see if I can get this confirmed and see it in writing (fingers crossed it won't change before I want to buy again).

    The plan is 10 more properties in the next ten years so really I should be setting up a trust structure to purchase them in. I also thought that if a company was trustee and I was just a guarantor for the loan then it wouldn't affect me qualifying for the FHOG / stamp duty concession. Setting up a trust is something that is easier to screw up than buying a IP from what I've gathered reading this forum almost daily.

    No matter how good the IP is I've seen it seems insane to lose out on 25k worth of incentives towards a purchase if I can help it! Surely someone has found a way to achieve this? I'll keep digging..

    Thanks for your help :-)

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Hi Gazza

    Couple of comments as follows:

    1) Is the stamp duty higher for an IP (in WA)?

        No the rate is the same although their is a concessionary rate where the property is your first home.

    2: Is there any way I can still get FHOG and stamp duty concession if I buy IP first, then PPOR next year or later?

        No regretfully not. FHOG = Yes S/D = No.

    3: Although It won't help buying in a trust if i'm a trustee, what about if I buy an IP in a trust, with a company as trustee and me as director or is that just as useless? Any estimated annual costs for related accounting etc?

       No quite sure of the actual question. If you are asking whether you can get the FHOG / S/D concession where you have  

      purchased an IP in Trust initially then regretfully no. In regards to annual costs the Trust needs to lodge a Tax Return and you will need to pay the Annual ASIC fee for the Company. Bit more Accounting costs and possible Land Tax  consideration but need to also think of the longer term asset protection benefits and income distribution benefits.

    4: If that does help, are fees, interest rates, stamp duty, land tax, and any other costs higher when lending to /buying in a company/trust structure? By roughly how much? That could soon turn positive cashflow upside down!?   

    See above. In relation to additional borrowing costs in general No but some lenders will charge legal fees for assessing the Trust Deed.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of Gazza21Gazza21
    Participant
    @gazza21
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 54

    Thanks for your help!

    I appreciate I only get the FHOG & stamp duty concession when buying first ppor, so I guess the only question remaining is how can I buy an IP now, without fhog but I will have to pay stamp duty and also without forfeiting my eligibility for those two concessions when I buy a ppor later next year!?

    Surely there must be a structure/entity I can set up to purchase the IP in now so i'm not strictly/personally the owner. That way when I purchase a ppor next year it will as far as the taxman goes be my 'first' property and I can qualify for FHOG and stamp duty concession for that one?

    Sorry if I sound stubborn (& annoying) i'm just confused!  If a certain type of trust set-up helps with asset protection if someone tries to sue me because I wont technically own the property how does it stop me qualifying for the stamp duty concession, but not the FHOG (with my situation)?

    For example: I set up some sort of trust, and company. I'm director of the company that is benificiary of the trust. The trust buys an investment property (paying stamp duty) and i'm guarantor for the loan. Next year I personally buy a ppor, and receive fhog and qualify for stamp duty concession? 

    Thanks,

    Gazza

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