No that isn't the case. US Bank accounts can be opened without a SSN. The issue most face is that unless you physically go to the US and have them sight your ID you won't be able to get a bank account opened. I can't say who's right and who's wrong. Nigel is correct to my understanding…under the Patriot Act you need to be physically present at a bank branch to open it. But….it can be done. I only got one opened for a client of mine from Japan but that was going through some attorneys so it cost the buyer $250-00 for them to do the into to the bank etc.
No, The Australian, that's not correct. Easy way to do it is establish an LLC (Limited Liability Company) and open a business account in the name of the LLC. In our book we have two personal contacts at US banks that will open accounts for foreigners, as well as heaps of info about setting up LLCs.
Oh, and for the original poster, Steve Bland is an Australian operating in Las Vegas. I can't vouch for him as I haven't dealt with him, but it's a possible point of contact for you.
Thank you
Peter is right I have been told you can open an account outside of the US however there have been a number of recorded cases where Homeland security have been closing down accounts that cannot show evidence that the accounts were opened in person. You do not need a social security number to open a bank account.
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Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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Wells Fargo is becoming much tighter on foreign ownership of bank accounts. Easy to walk to into a branch with your passport and do it. Not so easy if you live in Australia.
LOOPHOLE 1 –
Some US Property Firms can open up the account on the owners behalf, (the US Property Firm manager will have minor stake in the LLC to make this happen and then the LLC is amended so the original owner has full control again)
LOOPHOLE 2 –
Our banker at Wells Fargo is still accepting applications and usually takes around 14 days to process. Can only set up an LLC account and must have an LLC prior to setting up. Not sure how much longer this will last. The FEDs are cracking down on this
Thats because Wells Fargo have had more accounts shut down than anyone else. If you have opened an account through a secondary person there is a good chance your account will be closed down.
Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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Just to reply to some of the comments here, according to the Patriot Act, yes, there are strict laws that apply.
However, when I mentioned that you need the right contacts, it's still holds true.
So far, i haven't had any issues with opening an account for buyers, I work with senior people and some managers, and the ones I work with have all had legal advise within the bank, otherwise they certainly wouldn't and couldn't entertain opening an account without the applicant being present.
Sometimes, when reading various comments, it seems that everyone is an expert, but the facts are the facts.
I had buyers that were originally with Wachovia, a remnant in a lot of cases from the MYUSAPROPERTY days, and the problem there was that the lady that was opening accounts, retired, and the lady that took over didn't want to know and just referred everyone to the Patriot Act, so many found they had a big problem, I had to get some buyers to start a new account at Wells Fargo, which went fine.
And one of the big problems is staff turnover at the bank, as the person that can and does open them, leaves, no one can take over unless they have been shown and are willing to do the same, but if you work with long established and senior contacts, it solves a lot of those problems.
Normally you would open a personal account first, then a business one, you have the EIN and LLC or whatever entity you have, and it takes a longer period of time to get the ITN.
Yes, the banking system can be frustrating at times, and has caused some issues, but nothing that can't be resolved if you have the right contacts at the bank to sort things out.
They have the Bill Pay System, that still uses cheques in most cases, and as it's not as online advanced as Aussies are used to, it can be a source of frustration, but again, with the right help, everything can be resolved, and accounts opened.
Hope this helps for what it's worth.
Jeff
Agree. Billpay (send electronic check) can be frustrating having to send checks all over the country but it is the only way for most foreigners to pay your manager or contract worker.
To bring money back to Australia, you can send a billpay check to your currency provider, and then they credit the money back into your account. The most effective way as most banks will not allow a foreigner to send money internationally without all of this annoying security checks that just make it not worth it.
It can be done! I have done it for 4 years straight, however, cultural shock until you get used to it
I think this subject has been done to death and there are some so called experts giving there opinion or advise on this thread, so i asked my contact to give me the correct and legal advise for opening accounts without being there in person ( I have a few, but my main contact is a senior banker and senior business manager, so I think he knows a little more than most ill informed information being bandied around ) so I have included part of his reply for all to see.
Do you think that a major bank would or could, open accounts in contravention of the patriot or any other legal act? Of course not, if it can't be done legally, then they wouldn't do it. It can be very frustrating at times, when dealing with those in the US that will use the Patriot act or some other reason why something can't be done, it's normally due to their own ignorance or just not knowing, and that's the same as many over here in Oz, that simply don't have the right information, the right contacts, and don't do the right research, whether you go over all the time to the US or not.
This is the message from my main contact at Wells Fargo….
'As for this patriot act and closing of accounts. This is not coming from a creditable source. Wells Fargo is not closing oversea accounts. The way that I open your client’s accounts is as good as being here in person anyway. That is why I have to fax signature cards to the clients to have them sign and return to me. All accounts are opened follow Wells Fargo’s policy and procedures and your clients will not have any problems with the accounts that I open fro them. Please assure them of that and if they need it directly from me then give them my contact info and I would be happy to relay this same information.
Hope all is well on your side of the world!'
Hope this helps.
Jeff Lewis
Jeff
Perhaps you should go to the states and actually see the information rather than just talk about it. It is much better that people should go there and see the markets for themselves rather than take some ones word for it
You are incorrect
Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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Nigel,
As we have met on occasion, and know each other personally, i know of your background as well, so please don't get personal on this forum, it belittles you.
This thread is for information, and to offer help and advice, and although you might travel to the US all the time, you are mostly in the commercial property area, not residential, and didn't have the contacts that i developed over time.
And how can you say the advice I'm providing is wrong, when it comes from the mouth of a senior Wells Fargo banker himself, and is also a Senior Bank Business Manager, who has helped many Australians to open secure accounts, all with their own internal legal advice.
So unless you are a US Banker yourself or a US attorney working at Wells Fargo, please don't tell me I'm wrong, or give misleading advice to promote yourself.
Again, let me say, that there are a number of others on this thread that are also saying you can open US Accounts, not just me, and if things do change, then we will all know about it, not just in little tidbits of information that uninformed people seem to throw around.
Opening a US Bank Account can be, like everything else when doing business in the US, a source of frustration, mainly due to the communication and understanding of how they work, as opposed to how Australians perceive them, and also being wrongly advised by many selling US property over here. their systems in many cases are quite different, and you don't have to travel to the US every month or so to know that, it's just how it is.
I have personally had contact with numerous banks both local ones and all the majors, in many different States in the past, and i know from experience, that many staff that actually work in the banks don't have a clue when it comes to working with foreign nationals wanting to open an account, if i had a dollar for every time someone told me to just come into the bank the next day or so they will be happy to open it for me, or for my clients, when I mention that Australia is actually the others side of the world, they just don't seem to understand, and then say they can't open the account as we are not US residents or some other silly reason.
So when you actually do the research as many have done on this thread, you will actually find the true information, and if you do have the right contacts in senior positions in some of the banks, you will get even more credible and valid information.
So again, this is not MY ADVICE, but is fact.
Jeff
Guys, I'm on the ground here in the US and have teams in 6 different states in America. I can give you my two-cents in this argument which appears to be going round in circles… Firstly, it comes down to the bank and no-one else. After the GFC, compliance at banks became a major issue and the majority of them are just too scared to set-up accounts for people that are not appearing face to face in America. Jeff, some banks are doing it by way of scanned documents and phone interviews, but they are getting away with it because of their own internal compliance rules at a branch level rather than federal or state. The Patriot Act does in fact state that you have to appear in person at the bank, however, as I mentioned, the level at which this is policed varies from bank to bank and from branch to branch. I know, that Wells Fargo in Florida, NJ, California and Georgia will not open accounts for foreign nationals unless they appear at the bank. Citibank was doing it for a while but Compliance has since knocked that on the the head too.
Long story short, it can be done and if you have a banker willing to open accounts for your clients, thats great and make the most of it. Big bank compliance is no laughing matter and they will always take the road of caution when it comes to playing by the rules. Our personal banker at JP Morgan actually said if he even makes a spelling mistake in the name when setting up accounts, he loses his job. Just goes to show how seriously the banks are taking things these days. Its no easy task but if you have a contact and its working, make the most of it because they may not be doing it forever…
Best,
Ryan
Thanks for your post Ryan, and yes, there are a lot of grey areas as you know that can be a source of frustration when working with Bankers as well as other service providers in the US, and not second guessing as to how things do or should work.
There is and i think always will be, many points of view in regards bank accounts being opened, especially for foreign investors not present when opening an account.
I have dealt with a variety of different banks over time in the US, and you get so many different answers to questions, and so called Business Managers will invariably say it can't be done and almost always refer to the Patriot Act and their particular bank rules and regulations.
It's refreshing when you do come across someone that instead of saying it can't be done, says how can they do and make it happen, within legal guidelines of course. and that's the same anywhere.
And being on the ground in the US certainly gives you a heads up and more credibility, and that's why I, and others who are serious about this business, are opening up our own office shortly in the US, and will also have have our own staff. Being able to provide the correct and helpful advice to buyers, and having the actual local knowledge, is far better and more transparent than just providing uninformed opinions and advice.
Thanks
Jeff
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