Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Profile photo of keikokeiko
    Participant
    @keiko
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 513

    Valuers are crooks and working for the banks, This should not be allowed.

    When you get a valuation done, it should not be based on your purchase price, it should be based on what the surrounding properties have been sold for.
    Every valuer basis it on purchase price even if you are buying it $100,000 or $1,000,000 less than what it is truely worth, the valuer will put your purchase price. I don't call that a valuer, don't we want the value of the property?

    They call them valuers and you would think that they would value the property based on what it is, but they don't.

    I have spent thousands of dollars on valuations and I can tell you the bank has these valuers working for them.
    Whether you order a private valuation or direct through the bank, the valuer wants to know which bank, WHY, because that particular bank has special guide lines that the valuer must go by and they will reduce your homes value by 10-20%.

    When you call a valuer and ask for a valuation, why does the valuer need to know the purpose of the valuation??? mmm, whether it is to sell or refinance or what ever the case, this should not effect the value of your property but it does and this is the reason they ask.

    Why did I get a valuation done privately and then I asked the valuer what the valuation price would be and then the valuer told me xxx, then I told the valuer to assign the valuation to bank Y and next minute I recieved a valuation $100,000 under what I was told, this has not happened once but twice, answer from valuer, sorry it was a mistake, LIES, bank stepped in and corrected the price.

    I go to buy a property, purchase price is very low, nothing compares to it on the market, all other properties are hundreds of thousands of dollars more, valuers want to know purchase price, I say $500,000 more than what is on contract, valuers do there research and say yep know problem we can do this, while waiting property goes to market with it's asking price a lot less than I have told valuers, next minute valuers call agent and ask what price I have on contract, next minute valuers come back and say value is what you have on contract. mmm load of cr.p. how can they say one price one minute and then another the next.

    I buy a property that is cheap, then make some alterations and add value, call some valuers to have property valued, sorry need to know bank which will finance it, I say private lender from overseas, sorry we can not value it, we need the banks name, and sorry the property was only purchased not long ago and does not increase in value this quick, mmm but I purchased very cheap and have done some work to it to add huge value and your saying that it is still only worth what I paid, so I get realestate agents around and they say it is worth a lot more than I paid and they could achieve this higher price for me.

    Many more stories about valuers, the banks have them wrapped around there little finger.
    Trust me when I say I have spent thousands of dollars on valuers, I mean it, sometimes as many as 8 valuations on a single property to try and get the true value, not a bank or purchase price figure.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
    Member
    @yossarian
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 136

    Short version: I’ve been trying – with limited success – to game the system around valuations and thought a barely coherent rant would make me feel better.

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
    Participant
    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069

    If you arrange your own valuation that isn't linked to a bank application – you shouldn't need to tell them anything, just that you'd like to know the value of your home.

    I doubt eight valuers would all get it wrong.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of keikokeiko
    Participant
    @keiko
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 513
    Yossarian wrote:
    Short version: I've been trying – with limited success – to game the system around valuations and thought a barely coherent rant would make me feel better.

    Have had success but at a cost that should not be needed.

    Profile photo of keikokeiko
    Participant
    @keiko
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 513
    Jamie M wrote:
    If you arrange your own valuation that isn't linked to a bank application – you shouldn't need to tell them anything, just that you'd like to know the value of your home.

    I doubt eight valuers would all get it wrong.

    Cheers

    Jamie

    When you ask for the valuation the valuer always says, what is it for, and which bank and….
    All I want is a genuine price put on the property based on others that have sold in the area, not based on which bank or what I paid or what the val is being used for.
    If you can't satisfy the valuers questions, then they tell you where to go.

    Out of all the valuers, you will be surprised on how they all operate, very similar, one came in $400,000 $500,000 above the others and this was still to low. all based on purchase price or if they couldn't find this out, then they based it on the price that was given to them.
    where as it should be based on the neighboring properties.

    Profile photo of NooobNooob
    Member
    @nooob
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 34

    There was an article in YIP (or API, can't remember which) about a bargain hunter who purchased the property subject to the purchase price remaining secret.

    I was trying to explain his method for a friend of mine and I couldn't find the damn magazine.
    There are clauses that you can use to keep the purchase price secret. Valuers sometimes looking at the commission that the real estate agent is taking to estimate the purchase value.

    The downside with these methods is that sometimes the seller is going cold feet when he realizes that the price of his property is higher than what he's selling it.

    If I found the article, I'll let you know which issue it was in.

    Profile photo of mattstamattsta
    Participant
    @mattsta
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 604

    I totally agree with Noooob. The purchase should remain secretive. The only individuals that should know the purchase price of the home is the buyer and seller.

    Profile photo of v8ghiav8ghia
    Member
    @v8ghia
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 871

    Couple of things need clarifying here I am afraid………so I will just pop a couple of F a c t s below that may clear up some of the confusion.
    1) If the bank orders and pays for the valuation……um…..Yes – the valuer IS working for the bank.
    2) Valuations are based on COMPARABLE sales only, and they have to 'get it right' or get into trouble. What many peple cannot grasp, is that if they go and buy a house for $300,000, then in most cases (some come in lower ) the value IS $300,00 – because that is what you just paid for it!!! Most lenders will not revalue in a timeframe less than 12 mths also for this reason – so other comparable sales can be used to gauge the value. Just had someone SPEW when their house was valued by a 'bank valuer' at $285k – it was definitely worth $320-$350k on their mothers grave et etc and all valuers were evil etc etc etc ……guess what? They just sold it 4 mths after the rant for $280k!!! Looks like the bank valuer over estimated by $5000!
    3) A valuer will always ask you the purpose, as the valuation DOES come in different depending on the purpose. Classic example is for 'family law matters' (ie separations, estate, divorces etc) when generally it will come in higher than a valution for borrowing purpose….should not be too hard to work that one out!
    4) I have recnelty had a clients house valued by a bank 'panel valuer' as a short form (ie more detailed) one where they were building a house on land purchased recently, and it cam in $110,00 LESS than the building contract and price they paid for the land. Why? Comparable sales – admittedly price over a mill, but the only stuff in the area that had sold recently anywhere near that price was considered superior and or on larger land areas – so it is the comparable sales that are used to base the end valuation price on.

    It really is quite simple, but it can be made to appear 'over complicated'. BIt differnet (and more time consuming) than the old 'market appraisal)
    Finally, if YOU sold your house at a higher price than the valuer gave………..you have just put up the value of your neighbors property.

    Hope that helps :-)

    Profile photo of thecrestthecrest
    Participant
    @thecrest
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 992

    I’ve found valuers to be very helpful and knowledgeable, and their val forms an important part of my DD.
    Suggestions.
    Interview a few valuers before selecting one.
    Ensure they are familiar with the locality and upbeat about it.
    Provide them with all the favourable comparative info you can find and ensure you get agreement from the bank and valuer to be provided with a copy of the valuation same time the bank gets their copy, provided you’re the one paying for the valuation.
    Appeal to the bank and valuer with supporting docs if you feel the val is incorrect.
    Cheers
    thecrest

    thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
    http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    selling motels in NSW

    Profile photo of keikokeiko
    Participant
    @keiko
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 513
    v8ghia wrote:
    Couple of things need clarifying here I am afraid………so I will just pop a couple of F a c t s below that may clear up some of the confusion.
    1) If the bank orders and pays for the valuation……um…..Yes – the valuer IS working for the bank.
    2) Valuations are based on COMPARABLE sales only, and they have to 'get it right' or get into trouble. What many peple cannot grasp, is that if they go and buy a house for $300,000, then in most cases (some come in lower ) the value IS $300,00 – because that is what you just paid for it!!! Most lenders will not revalue in a timeframe less than 12 mths also for this reason – so other comparable sales can be used to gauge the value. Just had someone SPEW when their house was valued by a 'bank valuer' at $285k – it was definitely worth $320-$350k on their mothers grave et etc and all valuers were evil etc etc etc ……guess what? They just sold it 4 mths after the rant for $280k!!! Looks like the bank valuer over estimated by $5000!
    3) A valuer will always ask you the purpose, as the valuation DOES come in different depending on the purpose. Classic example is for 'family law matters' (ie separations, estate, divorces etc) when generally it will come in higher than a valution for borrowing purpose….should not be too hard to work that one out!
    4) I have recnelty had a clients house valued by a bank 'panel valuer' as a short form (ie more detailed) one where they were building a house on land purchased recently, and it cam in $110,00 LESS than the building contract and price they paid for the land. Why? Comparable sales – admittedly price over a mill, but the only stuff in the area that had sold recently anywhere near that price was considered superior and or on larger land areas – so it is the comparable sales that are used to base the end valuation price on.

    It really is quite simple, but it can be made to appear 'over complicated'. BIt differnet (and more time consuming) than the old 'market appraisal)
    Finally, if YOU sold your house at a higher price than the valuer gave………..you have just put up the value of your neighbors property.

    Hope that helps :-)

    Thanks for your comments.
    If a bank orders a valuation but you pay for the valuation then I guess they should be working for you not the bank.
    There is still the fact that if you pay $500,000 for your property today and the neighboring homes that are very similar are selling for $600,000 $650,000 in the last few weeks, then what is the value going to be on your property. I believe it should be $600,000 $650,000 not $500,000 because that is all you paid, you got a bargain and your neighbors did not, but it should be based on similar properties not just one property which is your one.
    I have even had valuers say wow you bought that cheap and still it is valued at purchase price, to me that aint a valuation.
    It would be like me buying aunt betty's house for $1 or half it's true value, and then what is the valuer going to do, sorry house is only worth $1.

    Profile photo of goldiesgoldies
    Member
    @goldies
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 115

    So if I want a valuation, I should tell them its because my husband left me or my parents died then it will come back higher???? What the?

    Profile photo of Max collinsMax collins
    Member
    @max-collins
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1

    I am a Valuer who refuses to work for Australian Banks and I make a comfortable living doing divorce  – capital gains- superannuation valuations. Bank fees are too low combined with unrealistic turnaround times. Regards, Mc

    Profile photo of NooobNooob
    Member
    @nooob
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 34

    Good on you Max Collins
    If you give us some ins and outs on how to approach this matter, we will be able to use your service and injecting more cash in your industry and businesses like yours.

    Here is an example.
    I found a property that it worth $500.
    Due to special circumstances I can buy it for $400.

    How should I approach the lender and use your service to be able to use my equity straight away?

    Thanks again

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    My 2 cents worth: the valuation is based on the instructions ie if the bank is providing the instruction to the valuer it is usually for mortgage valuation purposes ie how much will the house realise in a distressed sale (when you default on the loan) – the banks need to know how much can they get without risk (your mortgage insurer will bear the risk of the other 20+% of the loan).

    If you instruct the valuer for market value the figure will be higher.

    If you instruct the valuer for replacement value, it will only be for the construction of a new build if the property is completely destroyed eg by fire.

    There are also many other forms of valuation which will all result in different answers.

    If I buy below market eg off a related party or for whatever reason then the instruction to the valuer should be for market value or fo mortgage purposes or whatever the circumstance and be done prior to purchase (or agreeing to the price if you need a negotiation tool).

    Profile photo of keikokeiko
    Participant
    @keiko
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 513
    Scott No Mates wrote:
    My 2 cents worth: the valuation is based on the instructions ie if the bank is providing the instruction to the valuer it is usually for mortgage valuation purposes ie how much will the house realise in a distressed sale (when you default on the loan) – the banks need to know how much can they get without risk (your mortgage insurer will bear the risk of the other 20+% of the loan).

    If you instruct the valuer for market value the figure will be higher.

    If you instruct the valuer for replacement value, it will only be for the construction of a new build if the property is completely destroyed eg by fire.

    There are also many other forms of valuation which will all result in different answers.

    If I buy below market eg off a related party or for whatever reason then the instruction to the valuer should be for market value or fo mortgage purposes or whatever the circumstance and be done prior to purchase (or agreeing to the price if you need a negotiation tool).

     

    Thanks Scott, could a market valuation be ordered privately from a bank panel valuer and then be presented to the bank and be accepted? or will the bank want a new valuation done based on mortgage purposes.
    Has anyone handed a market valuation to a bank and had it accepted and what size loan.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    A lender will want its own valuation (in fact more and more lenders are using Valex and not allowing re-assignments of other valuations) and will want it done for mortgage purposes.

    If you are not happy with the Banks lending policies Nooob prepare your own valuation and then go into the open market and arrange private finance. If it that good a deal i am sure you will be able to negotiate a rate of interest similar to Bank rates.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Mortgage Broker helping investors build their wealth thru property
    http://www.mortgagecapitalaustralia.com.au
    Email Me

    0-40 Properties in a decade with an unencumbered value of over $35M. Email for a copy of my API article

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