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  • Profile photo of stevenandvikkistevenandvikki
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    @stevenandvikki
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 5

    Can anyone tell me anything good or bad about the company U.S Invest ? (U.S Property Investment company)I have been looking into property investing and am doing lots of Due Diligence. So far I could see myself using this company as they pretty much hold your hand throughout the process’s that as a newbie can be a little overwhelming. I am thinking that it would be better to use this option than to go into somewhat blindfolded. I pay a joining fee that is reabsorbed when I make my first purchase (this eliminates tyre kickers taking up a lot of their time I think)
    They have the houses tenanted newly refurbished under good management and supply all the legal and accounting processes at rates which are at or below market value as they say these professionals get a lot of business from them. When you purchase the properties you pay a $3995 fee which includes all the renovations as they say they get the materials /labour at good rates because they buy the materials generically in bulk at a excellent rate. The houses also look like they are in line with other prices in the same area/market.The only other closing costs equate to around 2-3 % It seems good to me as I wouldn’t have to spend so much time figuring it all out for myself (although I would always strive to keep educating myself) It just seems like it would be less risky for me so my real question is why isn’t everyone using them?

    Looking forward to your comments

    Profile photo of kylermricekylermrice
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    @kylermrice
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 314

    In my opinion i wouldn't go with the one stop chop shop site, they are predatory as hell.  In the end it is to  good to be true and will not live up to the hype.

    My comments i posted back when you posted on that other thread. 
     
    From your previous post, but re posted for others to see the property they offer

    Here is one of their examples they recently emailed me…
    They don't have the properties listed on their site you have access once you are a member

    https://tmc91650.infusionsoft.com/app/attachment/18302/14836/fc1e23ab618aa4b3d17d4ee178772d7d

    (hope this link works if not you can email me and I will forward an example on to you)

    Profile photo of KnoxOffKnoxOff
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    @knoxoff
    Join Date: 2011
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    steve and vikki
    not sure if this is the right mob…….  but

    they give  their USA  address  as 

    2650 se 7th dr.
    Pompano Beach
    FL 33062

     Google earth  that address and street view it

    nice  big  waterfront house
     jetty  and big boat  out the back
    jetski's  , nice cars, 
    highperformance  motorbike , complete with burnout where someone  peeled out of the driveway

    probably  all  innocent  but    "just sayin"

    Profile photo of kylermricekylermrice
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    @kylermrice
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    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2650-SE-7th-Dr-Pompano-Beach-FL-33062/43106555_zpid/

    Sure it is, it's a mansion. 

    I knew when the area map came up it was next to A1A, premier area. 

    Man, it makes one wonder if they are making a killing or what.  For me i would like to get an address, when do they provide that? 
    Would like to know the demographic of the neighborhood, rents are plunging when you compete with whole city blocks of them.  I was never really one that jumped on the Atlanta wagon.

    I'd see if they offer something in Florida next to there house for 200,000K.
    i question that ROI that they post, this is just from running through the PDF file (very nice, pleasing to the eye, good marketing :P)  when i went to look again it was just to good to be true. 

    Profile photo of Luke BLuke B
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    @luke-b
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 10

    Anyone know Atlanta well enough to work out the address based on the google maps screenshots?

    They've told me they can't give you address of anything they've sold. Privacy, <moderator: delete language>.

    edit: with some rudimentary googling I can see that the property probably lies within an area bracketed by the Terrell Star Pkwy, Panola Rd and Stagecoach rd.

    Zillow prices in the area suggest to me that 70k isn't a terrible price. though, please correct me if I'm wrong. :)

    Profile photo of stevenandvikkistevenandvikki
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    @stevenandvikki
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 5

    I emailed U.S Invest over a week ago with the following questions/concerns and they have yet to reply..

    Hi there, I have had a chat and have been sent a starter pack of information about your company. I have a few questions if you don’t mind,

    Can we use our own financiers so that we don’t need to spend the 40,000 down on a 100,000 property as your requirements suggest? Is there any other way around this? Such as paying the premium members fee and selecting my own properties in my own price range? My thinking is why would I want to lay down 40,000 on one property when I could lay it on two cheaper properties with double the yields.

    Could you possibly show me something you have on your books today that is for sale around the $50,000?

    How many members do you have and how many buying opportunities to you present them with each year?

    When an opportunity arises to but do I have to scramble to obtain it and can other members outbid me in a sense if they are wanting it also? How do you select who gets the property if more than one investor wants it?

    Are the sale prices negotiable?

    How do your financiers rates compare with those on the rest of the U.S markets? Are they the lowest possible rates or can I easily obtain a better deal from someone else? How different is your arrangement here as from lets say vendors finance?

    Can you tell me how a investor usually goes on to get his 2nd 3rd 4th (and so on) properties? What is the usual criteria for this and what kinds of requirements are needed to obtain them? is it all about leverage?

    What is the minimum requirements that your banks are posing on foreign investors? I heard that they are not even lending and that the 20% down is more like 40% for foreigners.

    What is the usual loan type that investors go for eg 30yr 15yr interest only ARM?

    Thank You in advance for your time

    Regards

    Vikki Norton

    Profile photo of worldinvestorworldinvestor
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    @worldinvestor
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    Anyone know Atlanta well enough to work out the address based on the google maps screenshots?
    They've told me they can't give you address of anything they've sold. Privacy, <moderator: delete language>.
    edit: with some rudimentary googling I can see that the property probably lies within an area bracketed by the Terrell Star Pkwy, Panola Rd and Stagecoach rd.
    Zillow prices in the area suggest to me that 70k isn't a terrible price. though, please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
    Seriously,  how could you possibly make an informed decision on whether this group is sourcing suitable properties when you have no information.  A couple of street names and viewing zillow is just not going to cut it.  Would you use the same criteria to purchase property in Australia?

    Also, zillow has some useful information but what I have found is that property estimates appear to be always on the high side.

    WI

    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    @lawsjs
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 252

    Vikki,
    You aren’t able to get 40% finance. These things are cash only. I can all but guarantee you the $40,000 is buying the place for cash (or almost all of it) and the finance they are ‘offering’ is actually their own profit. What you have suggested their MO is in your email would be enough to make me run a mile! Its easy to conjure up numbers on these things.

    This is how it works:
    Last week my sister found two $15k (yes thats right fifteen thousand) properties that have almost had the required $4k repairs (each inside 5 days to complete) finished with a rental of $700. So total cost $19k with a net rental of $6800pa – 35% net. This is not unusual – a guy at work was boasting about 45%, when I asked where and how, my sisters name came up. Small world:) The point is, these buys aren’t impossible, not common, but out there.

    I hasten to say she only got into this business to help people avoid this scenario but, say she operated like a lot of these guys:

    The price for a start looks shifty to Aussies as it is ‘too’ cheap. Nice looking places too BTW – so easy to val up. Zillow shows neighbouring properties in the $60k-80k++ region, how can you go wrong??

    She offers the place for sale $60,000 and helps people gear into the investment with as little as 30% down. Amazing deal!! 15-16% gross return – 12% net!! Imagine that – buying a whole house for $60k – how can it be so cheap??? So the buyer races to the bank and stumps up $20,000 (covering the whole cost of the property for the seller) and the rest is ‘financed’ at generous rates (for the financier/seller) – and usually only for 3-5 years. If they aren’t feeling generous they will also charge for the repair with yet another generous margin thrown in. Even if they did charge they would not be after a good price for the work, so it is easy to see (and in one case we have evidence of) $10-15k being charged for maybe $1k worth of repair work. It is not a stretch of the imagination to assume that no alien will get finance in 5 years time (my finance contacts flat out say NEVER) on these properties so you could surmise without more funds from home that they will take title to the property and repeat the process with another poor schmuck buying a dream US investment property in a few years time. Nice work if you can get it:)

    The scenario above is common, one case we know of the buyer didn’t even have title. The LLC purchase structure these guys use is also fraught with risk – don’t get caught, don’t use finance and if you really must buy in an LLC make sure it is an LLC name of YOUR choosing, not just any random XYZ LLC company name the seller chose along with the other 20 they bought that day….

    Profile photo of Texas Cash Cow Investments AustraliaTexas Cash Cow Investments Australia
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    @texas-cash-cow-investments-australia
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    lawsjs

    No disputing what you say…I have seen companies offer finance exactly along the same terms you mentioned….nice little earner for them on top of what they make from the property.

    I just wanted to add however that there are some genuine finance offers available for foreign nationals….albeit rare. We have finance from a local commercial bank in Texas that lends 70% of the appraised property value over 15 or 20 year terms. Rates from 5.50%. Obviously the property needs to stack up to bank requirements.

    Most finance offers as you say are private funds on short terms so come 3 years your stuck with a problem. is the case you mentioned in your last paragraph the one Jay was involved with in sorting out ??

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,010

    Yes i agree finance is fairly limited but certainly doable.

    In the main as has been said minimum loan $50K (varies from State to State) and maximum lvr 75% lvr.

    We have got of lenders now on board at around 4.65% fixed but obviosuly these rates vary each day.

    We have fininancing clients into the US for some 10 years although the introduction of NCCP in Australia stopped us offering it to Australian residents / citizens until we obtained legal clarification from our Aggregator. Never ceased offering it to our UK clients.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Mortgage Broker helping investors build their wealth thru property
    http://www.mortgagecapitalaustralia.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    0-40 Properties in a decade with a unencumbered portfolio value in excess of $40M. Ask me for a copy of my API Interview.

    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    @lawsjs
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    My finance knowledge is not foolproof, but be VERY careful. I don’t dabble in the subprime pond and just got (as a non resi alien) 4.36 fixed for 30 years on commercial. It is possible. But as a general rule: Trust no one!!

    Profile photo of Luke BLuke B
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    @luke-b
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    worldinvestor wrote:
    Seriously,  how could you possibly make an informed decision on whether this group is sourcing suitable properties when you have no information.  A couple of street names and viewing zillow is just not going to cut it.  Would you use the same criteria to purchase property in Australia?

    Also, zillow has some useful information but what I have found is that property estimates appear to be always on the high side.

    WI

    Seriously, i don't think you could. Apologies if my intent was ambiguous. mostly i was trying to see how much information I could extract. I recon I could have found the house had I enough patience.

    I would be hesitant to run with these guys, I've made my decision to not use them, take from that what you will.

    I did speak to them about finance though. what they told be is that they set you up with a llc and then using the ein number set up a hsbc premier account (though you'd need $100k USD to do it). you can then get lending via hsbc. they also mentioned some private  lending at circa 7%, with the intent that you'd use that to build up credit then move to a national bank with better rates.
    you could also just get a hsbc premier account in Oz, though the entry requirements are steeper.

    Caveat: I'm pretty new at this, so I may say something pretty daft :)

    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    @lawsjs
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    My broker and my sister have been heavily involved in sorting two such cases out. I am unaware of any Jay might be involved in, but I found the ones ‘we’ know about because I was looking for them. They exist, once these guys are ‘outed’ the floodgates will open and hopefully the whole lot of these bottom feeders will be unable to feed because it will be too easy for people to find out the right questions to ask. I am not anti profit and certainly not anti real estate agents. I am anti theft – if that makes sense:)

    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    @cheevesfinancial
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 201

    I am in the loop with a lot of wholesalers in the area.  Each one of us have different products.  The one that is most profitable is what you say in this thread.  Wholesaler buys at X…marking up X+ Rehab + Profit to sell to investor in OZ.  Get down payment from OZ investor to cover wholesalers cash invested of acquisition and rehab, and charge interest on the profit for short term note.  Awesome system to make money however it's Moral Hazard.  That is not in my business model with what I do as tempting as it is.. 

    That being said, why is it bad?  It's not.  Moral Hazard existed and still exists on Wall St..(chime in now with your negative comments about Wall St :-)  If you are buying in the U.S, you have to accept Moral Hazard.  I can promise its done in every country's financial sector, just more exposed here…  I can buy a house in distress for about 60% of retail.  If I can get a house at 60% of retail, rehab work pushes me to 80% of retail, why can't I sell to an OZ investor charging 15-20% profit and financing that portion to them?  OZ investor is not getting a bad deal.  You are paying retail, what's the big deal?.  Most of you are looking for that STEAL and want a killer deal below retail!!  Easier said then done in this competetive market of domestic cash wholesalers who blanket the market 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  I will tell you, 90% of international investors pay retail prices.  Probably more then that. 

    The upside of your currency exchange rate in 3-5 years, your fundamentals of speculative investing, and a stronger ROI then you can dream of in OZ is there for you at U.S retail prices.  Not in my cards, but it's a business that is a win-win in my opinion.  Don't stab this thing to death.  If you like a market and you feel good about cash flow and upside, be happy paying retail.  Just how it is in my opinion.

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
    http://www.CommercialRealEstateVoice.com
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    Profile photo of worldinvestorworldinvestor
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    That being said, why is it bad?

    Because every man and his dog is taking a bite from the cherry, so who is wearing this???
     
    The returns will of course be overstated to justify the sale price. Can not wait for a section 8 tenant, should throw a party.

    I would not touch this type of product.

    This company wont even provide you with details on list of properties sold and  to add insult to injury they ask for an upfront fee. <moderator: delete language>

    WI

     

    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    WorldInvestor:  I totally see your point.  I have said in previous posts that wholesalers and brokers in other countries are what I classify as "generations". 

    1st Generation:  Distress direct.  Distress could be buying direct from banks, short sales, courthouse, etc…

    2nd Generation:  They purchase from 1st generation wholesalers and typically can bring small volume (oxymoron!) and negotiate a lesser fee from 1st Generation wholesalers.

    3rd Generation:  Ripoff

    I don't agree with upfront fees the same way I don't agree with paying my workers until their job is done.  Same concept.  Perform, make me happy, and I'll gladly pay you.  Keep in mind, a fee is not a "ripoff fee".  They are doing a service for you to minimize your research time.  If you don't want to pay a fee, get to the 1st generation wholesaler yourself.  If you can't, then you pay a fee.

    You mention Section 8..Why, because they pay higher?  True, but keep in mind, the housing authority won't pay the landlord more then fair market rent, which is appraised at about 10% above current averages these days.  I can't remember what Section 8 limits are in FL as I don't have the chart in front of me, but I just did one in New Jersey.  On a 2 bedroom unit in radius, Section 8 has a max payment of $1100 per month.  In reality, after inspections and rental analysis, they will pay $950.  The max doesn't necessarily mean that is what they will pay.  I see a lot of marketing material with crazy high ROI's using the maximum Section 8 allowance.  THAT is overstated in 99.99% of cases.

    If no addresses can be provided, it is likely they don't have inventory.  It's done all the time.  Inventory isn't as easy to get as it may seem.  The competition is fierce in Florida right now on the sub 150k market.  Cash local wholesalers dominate.  Reputation is EVERYTHING in buying the distressed asset class.  We help investors like you…not hurt you.  We lay things out on a silver platter….Some just charge higher fees.  I tell everyone I meet…My profit is 8-10%.  That is 8-10% above our acquisition + Rehab.  I don't go below 8 no matter what.  I can't afford to.  If investors don't like it, then they don't buy from me.  It's ok, that's business.  Our inventory sells.  I sell at below retail…but not for 20% below retail.  It's just not realistic. 

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
    http://www.CommercialRealEstateVoice.com
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    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    I can’t help myself with this subject. I actually don’t have anything against US wholesalers. I only own one condo in fact and bought it from a flipper, paying $60k for the pleasure. I knew all about it and am still happy with the purchase. However:

    The major problem from the Aussie purchaser’s perspective (or anywhere else) is that these deals attract the worst kind of marketeer in the business. There should be some duty of care/empathy with the purchaser. In cases I have come across there is nothing more than a desire to extract as much income for the end seller as possible. These guys, it must be remembered, can read like a who’s who of banned company directors in their home countries. These guys are the type who would have moved from roofing insulation to school halls, solar panels and then had the brains to discover real estate in dodgy US cities.

    If I was a wholesaler I would be being very careful about who I dealt with and try to get as much of an understanding of the end product as possible. As I have said before US agents/wholesalers have very complex rules and regs to abide by. The types of people I am referring to abide by nothing. The shell LLC model is an atrocious one if you aren’t extremely careful. For the uninitiated all it does is allow the seller to circumvent 200+ years of property transfer protection laws by simply selling you a company. Which may **or may not** own the property that you think you have bought.

    Projecting these deals 2+ years down the track I believe there are likely to be vast swathes of ghetto like areas created in hitherto nice areas, as bulk property gets passed to out of towners who have no clue about what they have bought. I know my sister has spent a huge amount of time working out management issues for the future and I know Jay’s system of partnering buildings has great merit, but for most people once you have handed over your dollars I doubt you will see the guys you bought from for dust. And as anyone in the US business will tell you, management is THE problem. I can only guess at what 1000 unkempt properties will end up tenanted with in 5 years time. Don’t kid yourselves (unless you really work the problem) that the ‘supposed’ 15-20% net returns will be that after a couple of years if your entire neighbourhood is sold through fast buck merchants from overseas who in all probability have never even seen the property they are flogging you.

    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    Yes, agree management is the most important piece.  That is why you need a team you can trust.  Also the rules and regs that you are referring to are Fiduciary Responsiblities.  I am a wholesaler, but most importantly I am a licensed real estate broker.  All of our contracts are sold with OUR firm as the seller.  In the biggest disclosure EVER, we write LICENSED REAL ESTATE AGENT.  It's a requirement by law to disclose.  That said, we have fiduciary responsibilites to our buyers overseas. 

    Yes, some wholesalers do not have licenses.  Nothing to lose!  Those are the ones to be weary of.  IMO

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
    http://www.CommercialRealEstateVoice.com
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Profile photo of EngeloRumoraEngeloRumora
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    CheevesFinancial wrote:
    Yes, agree management is the most important piece.  That is why you need a team you can trust.  Also the rules and regs that you are referring to are Fiduciary Responsiblities.  I am a wholesaler, but most importantly I am a licensed real estate broker.  All of our contracts are sold with OUR firm as the seller.  In the biggest disclosure EVER, we write LICENSED REAL ESTATE AGENT.  It's a requirement by law to disclose.  That said, we have fiduciary responsibilites to our buyers overseas. 

    Yes, some wholesalers do not have licenses.  Nothing to lose!  Those are the ones to be weary of.  IMO

    Team, Team and Team is so important. The people on the ground either make or break your investment.

    EngeloRumora | Ohio Cashflow
    http://ohiocashflow.com/
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    "Make a PASSION an OBSESSION and you'll never work a day in your life"

    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    Cheeves… The thing is the sales you make are then offloaded by those people who have no clue about RE. And THEY are the totally unlicensed ones.

    The end result of all this will be mountainous repair bills. It has taken me 15 years to get a good team together. Why should anyone give you a good deal if they never see you again? I had a building painting quote for $34k. The ‘real’ number was $5-6k. The repairs in time will be killers unless you are very careful. Add in another 1000 properties in the same condition and your area becomes a hot bed for well paid maintenance guys…

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