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  • Profile photo of jayhinrichsjayhinrichs
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    @jayhinrichs
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 1,177

    Let’s stir something up

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    Like create a conspiracy :)

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
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    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of Luke BLuke B
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    @luke-b
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 10

    Sure, lets Roll. Freckle posted some interesting stuff. Is property a good investment right now? Or should foreign investors stay local until the actual bottom actually hits? When will that be? How is the situation in Europe going to affect us property for the au investor? Is the dollar going to crash if Europe doesn't get it <moderator: delete language> together?

    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
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    @jamie-m
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 5,069
    jayhinrichs wrote:
    Let's stir something up

    What did you have in mind exactly????

    Cheers

    Jamie

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
    http://www.passgo.com.au
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    Mortgage Broker assisting clients Australia wide Email: [email protected]

    Profile photo of Alex SCAlex SC
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    @alex-sc
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    Post Count: 585
    jayhinrichs wrote:
    Let's stir something up

    Really  ,stir some thing up. LOL

    Profile photo of KnoxOffKnoxOff
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    @knoxoff
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 65

    No ………  this is an overseas forum .
    lets pick on the KIWIS 

    Profile photo of KnoxOffKnoxOff
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    @knoxoff
    Join Date: 2011
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    Luke B wrote:
    Sure, lets Roll. Freckle posted some interesting stuff. Is property a good investment right now? Or should foreign investors stay local until the actual bottom actually hits? When will that be? How is the situation in Europe going to affect us property for the au investor? Is the dollar going to crash if Europe doesn't get it <moderator: delete language> together?

    luke

    i think  you  have a better chance of picking the top of the Aussie market
    than picking the bottom of the US propety market

    the US  has been  running the  printing presses  for a few years now
    the  GFC  has a long  long way to run

    you just cant get out of trouble , throwing bad money into bad debt

    Aussie,s  are  living high  because of the howard government
    and the resourses boom

    heaven help us if  china slows production
    or that bogan   ranga PM  see's out another term 

     

    Profile photo of CheevesFinancialCheevesFinancial
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    @cheevesfinancial
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 201

    Sure, I'll bite on stirring up the pot!  I met with some Aussies yesterday.  I've gotten along great with all of them and its so exciting for me to exchange stories and learn from each other.  THAT BEING SAID……and forgive me as I know very little of the Australian market, but…

    From what I read, Australian homes are selling at 7 times the family income instead of the usual 3.5.  So are prices double of what they should be?  I mean, you can't continue to get negative cash flow and expect appreciation all the time.  Your ROI's are mostly horrible in Australia and many people I talk to from there invest in NEGATIVE cash flow homes!  So everything is based on appreciation.  What if interest rates go up?  Will that burst the bubble?  Is this why all the attention is diverted to the USA?

    The bubble in the U.S.A happened and burst because of the simple fundamental fact that prices were unsustainable.  Prices go up a lot because mortgages are easy to get.  Same happened in the U.S.  What Australia doesn't have is sub-prime so that is in your favor.  But still with prices going up and up, what about a money shortage? 

    I don't know…to me, I think prices in Australia adjust, but not to the amount that USA prices dropped…not even close.  Thoughts?  I know I know…Stupid Americans know nothing… :-)

    CheevesFinancial | Cushman & Wakefield - Commercial Property SW FL
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    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    watch this space

    the biggest thing to stir up both the Australian and american markets

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    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    KnoxOff wrote:
    heaven help us if  china slows production

    It already has. The great hope was that there would be a soft landing and the Chinese economy would stabilise at a growth rate of around 8%. For the world and particularly Aus that meant we had a chance of maintaining our current economies while the world sorted its mess out. Problem is that that was just a fantasy cooked up by the poly’s and bankersville to sooth the markets.

    The reality is that China has been on a self destruct course for the past decade. The GFC and now the global sovereign default crises has served to expose the structural weakness and corruption in the Chinese economy. We are now talking of something worse than just a hard landing but a severe crash in the Chinese economy that will take decades to repair.

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/world-bank-warns-of-economic-crisis-in.html

    There are many successful PI’s here who simply choose to listen to only the positive hype generated by media and industry about our future prospects. What they fail to realise is that these sources will always talk up the economy or downplay the negatives because not to is to admit we are gone for all money.

    I have no idea when the crunch will come, how it will unfold or how damaging it will be but all my instincts tell me its soon, it’ll be bad and probably worse than the 30’s depression and it will take decades to recover from. Occasionally I regain some optimism but that’s soon dissolved by a dose of new reality. I hope for the best but I’m planning for the worst. You should too.

    The Freckle

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
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    Yes Nigel i hear a whirlwind is coming.
     
    Should blow away the US market as far as many Australians are concerned.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of jbelmorejbelmore
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    Well the Reserve Bank is pretty optimistic – more than your comments. Its not just media hype. But there’s always the xfactor of what we can’t see ahead.

    The current stabilization of nominal house prices as wage inflation carries on is already making housing more affordable so there’s still a chance that the Australian housing market can adjust without a US style crash that was fueled by over building and lax lending that didn’t happen in australia.

    Also Aussie households stopped borrowing like we did before the GFC. I’ve sold my Australian bank shares as I think their profits will slow.

    We are very dependent on china now. It’s not pc to say it but the Chinese have a higher average iq so don’t under estimate china.. Luckily we are getting them as skilled migrants.

    Profile photo of PaulliePaullie
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    @paullie
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    Post Count: 217

    This morning my suspicions were solidified.

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/obama-warns-iran-hes-not-bluffing-over-nuclear-weapons/story-e6frg12c-1226287953031

    There's a war coming, war means spending.

    On the subject of "skilled" immigirants, the only reason thats happening is because big business want cheap alternatives, and they are cheap for a reason.

    Profile photo of KnoxOffKnoxOff
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    jbelmore wrote:
    Well the Reserve Bank is pretty optimistic – more than your comments. Its not just media hype. But there's always the xfactor of what we can't see ahead. The current stabilization of nominal house prices as wage inflation carries on is already making housing more affordable so there's still a chance that the Australian housing market can adjust without a US style crash that was fueled by over building and lax lending that didn't happen in australia. Also Aussie households stopped borrowing like we did before the GFC. I've sold my Australian bank shares as I think their profits will slow. We are very dependent on china now. It's not pc to say it but the Chinese have a higher average iq so don't under estimate china.. Luckily we are getting them as skilled migrants.

    at least  in the future  we will have jobs

     we can all become  farm hands , working on chinesse farm in australia
    looking after china's food security

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/consumer/real-estate/article/-/8981541/australia-for-sale/

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    jbelmore wrote:
    Well the Reserve Bank is pretty optimistic – more than your comments. Its not just media hype. But there’s always the xfactor of what we can’t see ahead.

    The RBA is not optimistic. Their language talks of room for more easing should the Euro area problems worsen. In real speak that means when europe turns to custod we have the capacity to reduce interest rates. If it gets really bad (liquidity) we’ll print money too!!

    jbelmore wrote:
    The current stabilization of nominal house prices

    Prices are still on a confirmed downward trend. We are tracking exactly as the US did when its property market collapsed. We only need a trigger to accelerate us into a full blown collapse.

    jbelmore wrote:
    as wage inflation carries on is already making housing more affordable

    I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. Real inflation is outpacing wage growth.

    jbelmore wrote:
    so there’s still a chance that the Australian housing market can adjust without a US style crash.

    Anything’s possible in the Land of Oz but Alice has returned to the real world.

    jbelmore wrote:
    Also Aussie households stopped borrowing like we did before the GFC. I’ve sold my Australian bank shares as I think their profits will slow.

    Globally populations in general are deleveraging as they try to position themselves for a recession. It’s a natural transition after exhausting our capacity to leverage up on easy credit

    jbelmore wrote:
    We are very dependent on china now.

    We’ve been dependent on China for over a decade, however, they’ve managed to turn their own economy into a bag of worms. China can not prevent what’s coming. Their economy is so dysfunctional they may end up copping the worst of the down turn.

    jbelmore wrote:
    It’s not pc to say it but the Chinese have a higher average iq so don’t under estimate china.. Luckily we are getting them as skilled migrants.

    Intelligence is only useful when it’s positioned in places that can influence or action the changes needed to correct things. China is a command economy run by a corrupt central government. Politicians are not renowned for their economic intellectual abilities. Quite the contrary.

    Throughout the ten year period, the largest group of skilled settlers was born in the UK. They represented just over one-in-four (27%) skilled settlers arriving in 2007-08, up from 21% ten years earlier. The next two largest skilled groups arriving in 2007-08 were born in India and China, and they accounted for 16% and 11% of skilled arrivals respectively. Those born in South Africa represented the fourth largest group in 2007-08, accounting for 6% of skilled arrivals, but down from 14% (and second place) in 1997-98. The absolute numbers of South African born settlers has remained relatively constant throughout this period, however, the proportional decrease reflects the growth in arrivals of UK, Indian and Chinese born skilled settlers.
    http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lookup/3416.0Main+Features32009.

    While Chinese skilled labour makes a contribution to economic activity it is impossible to measure its impact. Many skilled migrants find their qualifications do not meet Australian standards when they try to employ these skills. Some of the conditions placed on skilled immigrants are onerous at best and reflect protectionist practices by controlling bodies.

    The Freckle

    Profile photo of lawsjslawsjs
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    @lawsjs
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    Gotta remember the AUS property market is severely controlled. For the US guys it is probably best to think of the whole of Australia like Manhattan. Lack of supply controls prices, so IMHO a crash is highly unlikely. Slow growth – sure, but crash – near impossible. And that runs independently of the China/India growth trajectory – or lack thereof. If I was wrong (given our net migration patterns) it would mean somewhere in the middle of nowhere (The Alice) would have crashing prices or massive development. That their prices follow steady growth proves how controlled we are. IMHO. And I am out of Aus resi to all intents and purposes so I have no great bias either way:)

    Profile photo of worldinvestorworldinvestor
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    I will do what I always do and will chase the cycles, the next to move will be Sydney,  we are not too far off and I will be loading up.

    Freckle,  I am only interested in what is happening on the ground, not interested in analysing this stuff it has been done to death. 

    WI

    Profile photo of jayhinrichsjayhinrichs
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    @jayhinrichs
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    I was at a RE conference last week firm was Keller Williams….. the subject of bubbles came up and they were targeting Canada.

    factors included price run up and cost to purchase as it relates to average income… same statics that the US looked like before the crash.

    Although having bought and owned a home in BC… qualifying for a home was much harder than US.. and it could have been I was a foreigner. Although once approved the process is SO much better than US… No where near the amount of paper work, closing costs etc.
    Bank that lends you the money keeps the loan.

    In the US virtually all loans are sold off in the secondary market and that function adds all sorts of requirements to the mortgage packages. Not to mention all the HUD required disclosures that no one reads. And for sure our sub prime borrowers do not understand even if they read them or more likely had them read to them.

    JLH

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    lawsjs wrote:
    Lack of supply controls prices, so IMHO a crash is highly unlikely. Slow growth – sure, but crash – near impossible.

    Lack of supply???

    According to RP Data:

    The number of newly advertised properties for sale continued to increase last week however, we are seeing fewer new listings enter the market compared with the same period last year (3.3% lower nationally and 9.1% lower across the capital cities). RP Data is currently tracking 300,994 properties for sale across the country and 143,254 properties across the capital cities. Throughout Australia, total listings are currently 27.7% higher than they were at the same time last year and 25.5% higher across the capital cities. With fewer new listings being added to the market and some stock being absorbed, the total number of homes now advertised for sale is -7.5% below the record highs of last year nationally and -11.7% below their peaks across the capital cities.
    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/02/rp-data-homes-for-sale-leith-van-onselen/

    This graph shows how unsold property stocks are rising. They’re approaching 2008 levels.

    lawsjs wrote:
    Slow growth – sure, but crash – near impossible

    The graph below illustrates how housing markets have tracked once over their peaks. Interesting to note we are currently tracking the US. The UK and NZ markets had initially steeper declines and levelled out faster. It will be interesting to see how the AU markets tracks over this year.

    The Freckle

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
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    worldinvestor wrote:
    I will do what I always do and will chase the cycles, the next to move will be Sydney,  we are not too far off and I will be loading up.

    Freckle,  I am only interested in what is happening on the ground, not interested in analysing this stuff it has been done to death. 

    WI

    Those who are selling will be relieved to hear you’re in the market to ‘load up’.

    The Freckle

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