All Topics / Overseas Deals / USA – Where to buy?

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  • Profile photo of morpheusbushymorpheusbushy
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    @morpheusbushy
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    Quite obviously one of the key questions to investing in property in the US is where to buy or what area to focus on. Below is a list of options I have complied from the various buyers agents and other investors located in Australia… (this is a very rough list, and doesn’t list all locations each company has interests with).

    Ecco – Various locations, Michigan

    US Prime property – Memphis

    My USA property – Kansas City, Dallas, Atlanta, Miami et. al.

    888 US Real Estate – Kansas City, Atlanta

    Housebuyers USA – Phoenix, Kansas City, Pontiac, Memphis, Atlanta

    Cash flow gold – Detroit / Michigan

    Property in USA for Australians – Phoenix, Kansas City, Memphis

    Steve McKnight – Fort Lauderdale (Florida)

    British Buyer (Steve) – Miami

    Many of these buyers agents purchase in different areas throughout the states, as a single investor it is important for me to focus on one particular area and stick with it. I’m going to attempt to begin more in depth research in the following areas…

    Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW), Texas
    Why? From my initial observations I understand the market in the DFW area has not bottomed out as significantly as other parts of the US. From a simple convenience point of view, direct flights in to Dallas with Qantas makes this more attractive, particularly with little time off from my current job. I’m hoping there are still great cash-flow deals available in the area.

    Atlanta, Georgia
    Why? Seems many buyers agents are focusing on the area. Initial observations saw a large drop in prices through to the end of 2010. With increased investment opportunity, it seems the first half of 2011 has seen the property market stabilise, though still presents an opportunity as a buyers market.

    Kansas City, Missouri
    Why? With the sheer number of Australian investors focussing on the Kansas City area, this city definitely warrants further investigation. Unfortunately, if this market is already flooded with international investors it might prove difficult taking the “slow and steady” wins the race attitude I tend to adopt.

    Miami & greater metro area, Florida
    Why? Miami has seen some of the biggest drops in real estate values compared with the rest of the country. An over supply of housing means this market would likely continue to fall in the near future – whether this statement is also applicable to small value investment properties is yet to be seen. From a convenience standpoint, as a key tourist destination, access to and around Miami shouldn’t be a problem. Plus I love dexter.

    I’m heading over to the US in July for two weeks. My hope is to narrow this down to two locations I can visit for a week each. I am yet to book any of my flights :S. I know this is not much time, however i’m calling this trip “extreme due diligence” in my study of each area and also to establish some initial contact on the ground in each area (plus all the admin stuff etc.). Hoping I can make a decision by the end of this week and actually book my flights! Arghh!

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    Sounds like your doing some serious due dilligence there. 
    Have you compiled a list of areas to avoid?
    Sounds like you've examined all the buyers agents as well. Any of them appear to be a little……………..suss (for want of a better word).
    Personally I'm focusing on Cleveland, Kansas City and Atlanta. The latest 'Your Investment Property' magazine (Jun 2011) also lists Phoenix and Orlando in the top 4.
    I look forward to reading your report when you get back.

    Profile photo of morpheusbushymorpheusbushy
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    biggaz13 wrote:
    Sounds like your doing some serious due dilligence there. 
    Have you compiled a list of areas to avoid?
    Sounds like you've examined all the buyers agents as well. Any of them appear to be a little……………..suss (for want of a better word).
    Personally I'm focusing on Cleveland, Kansas City and Atlanta. The latest 'Your Investment Property' magazine (Jun 2011) also lists Phoenix and Orlando in the top 4.
    I look forward to reading your report when you get back.

    No but that is an equally great idea about examining a list of areas to avoid. I actually don’t think many of the buyers agents are suss (just extremely busy at the current time) – i’m finding it particularly hard to invest in US property specifically with all the crazy admin, so I can understand how many people choose to use this service!

    Profile photo of morpheusbushymorpheusbushy
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    Dallas, Texas

    I’ve started to do a more in depth write up of the cities i’ve listed above. It’s mostly a copy and paste job from various websites – it look a long time to put together but i’m happy to share and hopefully someone will find some use from it.

    General Overview

    Population centre: 1.2 million
    Population greater metro area: 6.5 million
    State population: 25.1 million

    Counties:
    Dallas, Collin, Denton, Rockwall, Kaufman

    Average annual income per capita: $40,147
    Average annual income per family: $42,670

    Current unemployment rate: 8.1%

    Background of Texas: Refer to blog
    Background of Dallas: Refer to blog
    Economy background: Refer to blog

    Public transportation:
    From airport – Catch the Monday to Saturday Trinity Railway Express to downtown Union Station ($2.25). The airport stop is actually in a parking lot; shuttle bus will take you direct to the terminal. On Sundays when there is no train, take a shuttle; Yellow Checker Shuttle and SuperShuttle run shuttles from DFW to downtown for around $18. Taxi to central will cost between $40 to $50.

    Around the city – DART (www.dart.org) operates buses and an extensive light rail system that connects Union Station and other stops downtown with outlying areas. Day passes ($4.50) are available from the store at the Akard Station (1401 Pacific Ave; 7.30 – 5.30pm Mon-Fri). Travel uptown from down on the free McKinney Ave trolley, which runs daily from the corner of Ross Ave and St Paul St, near the Dallas Museum of Art, up McKinney Ave to Hall St.

    Property Analysis

    Median house price: $128,200
    Zillow home value index: $89,200
    Trulia home value index: $80, 620

    Background/Summary: (provided direct from Trulia)

    The median sales price for homes in Dallas TX for Feb 11 to Apr 11 was $80,620. This represents a decline of 1.1%, or $871, compared to the prior quarter and an increase of 0.8% compared to the prior year. Sales prices have appreciated 19.4% over the last 5 years in Dallas. The average listing price for Dallas homes for sale on Trulia was $471,217 for the week ending May 11, which represents an increase of 0.7%, or $3,478, compared to the prior week and an increase of 1%, or $4,891, compared to the week ending Apr 20. Average price per square foot for Dallas TX was $69, an increase of 3% compared to the same period last year. Popular neighborhoods in Dallas include Preston Hollow, Oak Lawn, North Dallas, Far North Dallas, Lakewood, and Lake Highlands.

    In Dallas the housing market has been as uncomfortable as Texas weather. Gains in home values produced by the federal credit didn’t have any lasting power. Home sales turned sluggish after the expiration and homeowners became increasing concerned over the economy. A rising supply of foreclosed homes hitting the market coupled with short sales is also taking their toll as the Dallas-Forth Worth area experienced record foreclosures. A back-log of inventory and more mortgage holders walking away from homes in the New Year will have an enormous impact on the market even with comparatively high employment levels. ??Consumers who drive the Dallas market are waiting for better economic signs before taking a leap to make a purchase in to make a purchase in most cases, which will act to keep the market sluggish and add to the time it will take the market to heal. Dallas is forecast to see sluggish home sales in 2011 on 3.4% average housing deflation.

    Dallas suburb report: Refer to blog

    Dallas homes and real estate data: Refer to blog

    Sources:
    Wikipedia, Lonely Planet, Zillow, Trulia, US Market Outlook, First National, Re/Max, Propertywire

    For my full write up please visit http://www.myusapropertynightmare.wordpress.com

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    Well put together Anthony.
    It's like using a funnel.
    You find the country: USA
    You find a state: Texas
    You find a city: Dallas
    You find a neighbourhood:??? Or perhaps a section of the city that is acceptable. Just as important, a section of the city that is not acceptable.
    Dallas doesn't appeal to me and I'm not sure why.
    But I'll keep reading your research.
    Excellent work

    Profile photo of speedy gonzalesspeedy gonzales
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    Hey just be aware that TX is a non disclosure state so sites like Zillow & Trulia do not work as well as other states
    Zillow actually states this if you dig into their sites. I am actually in Dallas right now and getting a couple of deals
    done this week

    Profile photo of Alistair PerryAlistair Perry
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    Nigel from this forum is over in San Antonio at the moment with a group of clients. From what he has toild me it seems Texas is the place to be if you want to invest in the US. I don't know much about Dallas, but I suspect it is also a good location.

    Profile photo of petejac1petejac1
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    It's a big call to say Dallas is the place to be, you are aware how big the US is?

    Morpheusbushy, I felt exactly the same way.  I recently completed TLD International's Mastermind training in Florida and I now have a greater understanding of the whole buying process in Florida if not the states, as every state is slightly different.  While over there I picked up 3 properties in Fort Myers and can't be happier with them.

    Profile photo of speedy gonzalesspeedy gonzales
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    petejac1 wrote:
    It's a big call to say Dallas is the place to be, you are aware how big the US is?

    Morpheusbushy, I felt exactly the same way.  I recently completed TLD International's Mastermind training in Florida and I now have a greater understanding of the whole buying process in Florida if not the states, as every state is slightly different.  While over there I picked up 3 properties in Fort Myers and can't be happier with them.

    I don’t think it’s that big a call at all. Just need to look at the fundamentals that apply to Texas.
    FACT. Over 70% of all jobs created in the US have been in Texas
    FACT. The cost of living index is the lowest in Texas. Houston #1 & Dallas #2
    FACT. The current migration trends clearly show huge amounts of people moving
    to Texas. Greater then the huge migration to New York in the 1930’s
    FACT. The shadow inventory banks are holding is going to have a huge impact on markets already effected
    by record foreclosures. The NY times ran an article on that today. Dallas has only 6 months
    of inventory which when taken with the other facts produces a simple supply and demand issue

    Yes the US is a huge market with markets within markets but this is the whole point of morpheusbushy’s original post…needing
    To narrow down the selected cities based upon current FACTS not based upon past performance

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    I read somewhere that if you seek capital growth then Texas is a really good price to seek it. 
    But your entry cost is substantially higher since a lot more people are competing for the properties. 
    If you seek positive cash flow then you seek outside Texas.
    Perhaps a good balanced strategy is one property in Texas and two cheapies in Kansas City or Atlanta.
     

    Profile photo of morpheusbushymorpheusbushy
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    Thanks for all your comments,

    Biggaz13 – once I work on which areas/cities to focus on, I will be looking at neighbourhood specifics. My entry cost is in the lower spectrum so I guess this is something to think about when looking at Dallas/Texas

    Speedy – thanks for the heads up, did not realise Texas was a non-disclosure state so will keep an eye out for that. Would appreciate the connection if you have any good contacts in that area :)

    Profile photo of bennyblancobennyblanco
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    morpheus – Congrats on the blog, I really look forward to reading and signing up to your blog too. Do you know of any other blogs anyone else has done? I’m on the information hunt….Also why have you called it usapropertynightmare? just wondering….

    I too am thinking of doing the same thing but am probably a lot further behind you in the scheme of things?
    3 questions (well a load more really but start with these 3)

    1. have you completely discounted vegas?
    2. are you going to get finance?
    3. are you going to use a broker firm in oz or fly solo?

    speedy – your right. and furthermore apparently “The following states are considered non-disclosure: Alaska, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri (some counties), Montana, New Mexico, North Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming.”

    Profile photo of morpheusbushymorpheusbushy
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    bennyblanco wrote:
    morpheus – Congrats on the blog, I really look forward to reading and signing up to your blog too. Do you know of any other blogs anyone else has done?

    Hi Benny, unfortunately there are no specific blogs i’m following at this time, I do check in on a few every now and again but your best bet would be to look on here for other member’s blogs as well as a google search.

    bennyblanco wrote:
    I’m on the information hunt….Also why have you called it usapropertynightmare? just wondering…. I too am thinking of doing the same thing but am probably a lot further behind you in the scheme of things?

    I don’t think you could be too far behind me, don’t worry I have actually just really started this year! I call it a nightmare because so far (and I really don’t want to scare you) it has been a nightmare. A fun nightmare granted, but a nightmare nonetheless! All the research & admin needed before I even begin to search for properties… arggghhh! ;-)

    bennyblanco wrote:
    3 questions (well a load more really but start with these 3)

    1. have you completely discounted vegas?
    2. are you going to get finance?
    3. are you going to use a broker firm in oz or fly solo?

    1. No, for some reason it just doesn’t appeal to me. Perhaps it’s the fact I don’t like gambling nor the dessert?

    2. At this stage no. I will save for my first ($35 – $45k) home, hoping to have a partnership for further purchases otherwise I might consider finance options although from what I’ve read this can be difficult and expensive.

    3. Flying solo at this stage and i’ll see how I go. May use a broker firm (buyers agent) in the future – I don’t mind fees what I’m concerned about is they all seem incredibly busy these days and if I used one of them I would really need personal and individual service.

    Hope this answers some of your questions :)

    Profile photo of morpheusbushymorpheusbushy
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    Atlanta, Georgia General Overview State population: 9.7 million Population greater metro area: +6 million Population centre: 5.3 million Counties: Fulton and DeKalb <moderator: I deleted the lengthy article. please use link to access>

    Please visit http://myusapropertynightmare.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/atlanta-georgia/ for full summary. None of this information is my own! Sources: Wikipedia, Lonely Planet, Zillow, Trulia, US Market Outlook, First National, Re/Max, Propertywire

    Profile photo of speedy gonzalesspeedy gonzales
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    biggaz13 wrote:
    I read somewhere that if you seek capital growth then Texas is a really good price to seek it. 
    But your entry cost is substantially higher since a lot more people are competing for the properties. 
    If you seek positive cash flow then you seek outside Texas.
    Perhaps a good balanced strategy is one property in Texas and two cheapies in Kansas City or Atlanta.
     

    Hey Biggaz

    To an extent I agree, if you were chasing a growth strategy then I suggest TX
    has the basics in place to a achieve that but they still have properties that achieve
    good positive cashflow as well which is my reason to be here. This week I have been looking
    at properties around $50k-$90k. After all costs and loan repayments are take into
    account (and I am doing my numbers on only getting 50% financed here) I am left with
    an average of $500 a week. Sure I could spend less and get some cheapies and aim
    for Section 8 tenants but that’s not a market that personally interests me. I did that option
    7 years ago in Phoenix and nothing but trouble and higher maintenance due to Sect 8
    standards that need to be maintained to keep qualified

    Profile photo of ShillabeerShillabeer
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    Hi,
    I think it is great that you have actively made the decision to invest in the US, or anywhere, for that matter. It probably does'nt matter where you go in the US because there will be genuine bargains everywhere. There will be fabulous areas and then there will be the areas to avoid. You need to go where you have a genuine interest and can set up a TEAM on the ground in the US. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to have a great team you can trust. This includes a property manager, realtor, bank manager, accountant. Without these people, invsting will be difficult and problems can occur.
    A good realtor can give you insight, drive you around, show you first hand a variety of properties and set you up on the internet with your personlised real estate alerts to suit your criteria. You must have a good property manger who can organise your rehabs, tennant your property, collect your rent (cash or checks) and deposit into your bank. (Usually in person). Then you have to have a bank manager who answers all of your emails and can set you up in the US. Banks are run completely differently in the US compared to Australia (and you have to learn the lingo). This is just the beginning and I am still sorting things out in the US as far as banks go.
    I hope this helps a little!!!
     S Shillabeer

    Profile photo of Alistair PerryAlistair Perry
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    Some of you might find this link minteresting. It's a video of Nigel off this forum interviewing some people from his trip, this must have been masde this week some time. There are some other interesting videos on youtube also.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_rG87yA4Io&feature=channel_video_title

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    Mr Morpheusbushy

    Do you feel comfortable drawing a conclusion on each city you research? Perhaps a small summary with dot points revealing the positives and negatives. There's massive junks of information on each city and it becomes difficult to interpret what that information actually means for the average investor from Australia. Especially against other potential USA cities. 

    I have done extensive research on the USA and just getting my head around it all makes my head hurt.

    Information such as:

    There are approx 6 million delinquent loans in the USA right now.
    Over 1 million houses were seized by the banks last year (2010). This is expected to rise each year for the next 3 years (minimum).
    Some real estate commentators predict this to peak in 2013 with 6 million foreclosures in the USA in that one year alone.
    9% of all properties in Nevada have been foreclosed (AVOID Las Vegas)
    51% of all foreclosures are confined to 5 states (California/Florida/Arizona/Illinois/Michigan in that order)  
    Forbes & CNBC state there are 18.4 – 20 million empty houses in the USA (2011). The largest stock of untenanted / derelict houses ever seen in the hisory of mankind.
    The best city? Honolulu. Rental demand is tight and any foreclosed property is quickly snapped up at market value.
    The US sub-prime is mostly over
    Many Americans can afford to pay their mortgage but choose not to.
    It takes approx 17 months for the bank to kick out the non-paying home owners. So the homeowner lives rent/mortgage free for 17 months. Some economists have stated this behaviour has actually helped the USA avoid a double dip recession since these non-paying home owners are spending their mortgage money in the retail/service sector thus stimulating the economy!!!!!!
    It is estimated that 23% to 28% of all properties in the USA that have a mortgage are in negative equity territory.
    It is estimated that 68% of all mortgages in Nevada are in negative equity.
    I read one economic report stating that one reason for this was a massive campaign by the banks back in early 2000's. They encouraged home owners to come in and unlock the equity in their houses. Push out their mortgage by $50K to $100K based on the theory that property values would go up soon and this equity would be replaced. Economists state this avoided a USA recession then as millions of home owners took out this equity and stimulated the economy. Of course, when the GFC hit and house prices tanked, many properties went into negative equity.
    I remember in Australia banks doing this advertising campaign with Greg Chappell (cricketer) encouraging Australians to unlock the equity in their homes and spend the money to improve their quality of life. Thankfully most Australians saw this for what it was and ignored it. It was an advertising failure.
    US interest rates are vital.
    I've read economic reports showing that the interest rates MUST go up. Inflationary pressure. 
    What impact will this have on the US economy and people wanting to take out a mortgage to buy a house??
    The 3 most dangerous cities in the USA according to the FBI? Try 1. Detroit, 2. Memphis, 3. Miami
    But this changes from year to year. I'm told Memphis wasn't in the top 20 about three years ago.

    I could go on and on and on…………………………..

    Then you factor in biased information. Old informaton. Innaccurate information. Changing variables. Changing trends. Natural disasters.
     
    In the end we went with Cleveland, Ohio. I can give you five reasons why this was a terrible decision. And five reasons why its an excellent decisioin.

    Next is Kansas City or Atlanta.

    Keep up the research………………….

    Profile photo of wobblysquarewobblysquare
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    Biggaz,interesting post. Could you let us know the
    5 reasons why good and the 5 reasons why bad for Cleveland.

    _ Interested to know what you think makes it good and what bad.

    I am still trying to finalise an area to go. I have mixed feelings about whether i high foreclosure rate means a good place to buy (ie California and Florida) or a bad place to buy.

    I had been thinking to go to Texas, Houston or Dallas – due to job drift in that direction. But seem to be low foreclosure rates, and hard to snap up a bargain. Meaning lower cash flow, and hopefully lower risk.

    Profile photo of biggaz13biggaz13
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    Cleveland Ohio

    + Excellent rental market
    + High income to price ratio = Excellent Cash flow straight up
    + Cleveland Clinic. Massive health employer and it's going nowhere.
    + Cleveland is pushing really hard to grow its technology based industries and research centres. Its going from strength to strength. 
    + It's on a lake (Lake Erie). I think most cities with a water feature will do ok in the long term. Just a gut feeling.

    – Lots and lots of houses for sale in Cleveland
    – Capital gains is highly unlikely in the short term. Even medium term I suspect.
    – Manufacturing is still a big part of the Ohio economy and like any developed country, counts as a BIG negative. 
    – Against the other states, it ranks 7th as having the most individuals living in poverty
    – It has an ageing population. This may put a big burden on the Cleveland economy in years to come as the baby boomers retire.

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