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  • Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
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    Post Count: 1,099

    The other side would agree 90% of the time…but if you move in early;
    1. the “pro-rated” rent and council rate etc needs to be re calculated and re-done
    2. Can’t force tenant out

    So not sure if it’s worth the hassle JUST to bring settlement 7 days forward.

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
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    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
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    @ferdinandch
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    Hi Terry,

    I don’t sign any contract with the tenant and that property is legally mine, if settlement took place, that means if he insists to live there, I assume, it works like someone lives in your house without your approval. So I guess as a reasonable person, should I call police?

    My solicitor mentioned before if the tenant couldn’t find a place or does not want to move at 11/08, then we won’t settle… I don’t understand why it becomes the purchaser’s problem. Therefore I am seeking opinion and advice here, I want to know what is my legal right and how to enforce my legal right.

    Cheers

    Ferdinand

    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
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    @ferdinandch
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    Shape wrote:
    The other side would agree 90% of the time…but if you move in early;
    1. the “pro-rated” rent and council rate etc needs to be re calculated and re-done
    2. Can’t force tenant out

    So not sure if it’s worth the hassle JUST to bring settlement 7 days forward.

    In case, after 11/08, tenant won’t move out, what can I do, mate? My solicitor’s response disappointed me, he said, we just don’t settle.

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1,099

    The property is only yours at settlement ( NSW anyway) – so once it’s yours the tenant would have to sign a new lease with you – which is not going to happen because you want to move in….so hence it only becomes your problem AFTER settlement.

    But your solicitor is right- you just won’t settle IF the condition of the contract was for vacant occupancy.

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
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    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
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    @ferdinandch
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    Post Count: 91

    Can I let him to live there until 11/8, then force him out ?

    So if the property is not vacant till September, I have to wait the settlement till September?

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
    Join Date: 2010
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    ferdinandch wrote:
    Shape wrote:
    The other side would agree 90% of the time…but if you move in early;
    1. the “pro-rated” rent and council rate etc needs to be re calculated and re-done
    2. Can’t force tenant out

    So not sure if it’s worth the hassle JUST to bring settlement 7 days forward.

    In case, after 11/08, tenant won’t move out, what can I do, mate? My solicitor’s response disappointed me, he said, we just don’t settle.

    i would not WAIT till the problem arise…i would get the solicitor to contact the another side to confirm tenant has been given notice to leave and after the 11/8 it will be an vacant purchase.

    Im just hoping the vendors has given the tenant the given time-frame and notice….if not there is not much you can do; as the tenants are protected as much as you are….and if it comes down to a tribunal im afraid the tenants would win if they are force out without their 30 days notice.

    For vacant purchase i normally ask my clients to get a copy of the 30 days notice letter well ahead of settlement.

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I wouldn't take early settlement for this reason. It is better to have the vendor keep this potential problem just in case. Some people are having problems finding accomodation for various reasons and some tenants just refuse to leave.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
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    @ferdinandch
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    I believe the notice has been given to tenant on 13 July when the cooling off period lapsed. I am pretty sure about that, I think I need to check with the solicitor whether he has the copy of the notice or not. 30 days from 13 July will be 12 August, which I am fine.

    So theoretically, the tenant can only refuse to leave anytime before 12 August? After that, they don’t really have any legal right ?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    They can refuse to leave indefinitely. It would then be up to the owner of the property to take them to court.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
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    @shape
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    ferdinandch wrote:
    I believe the notice has been given to tenant on 13 July when the cooling off period lapsed. I am pretty sure about that, I think I need to check with the solicitor whether he has the copy of the notice or not. 30 days from 13 July will be 12 August, which I am fine.

    So theoretically, the tenant can only refuse to leave anytime before 12 August? After that, they don’t really have any legal right ?

    That’s right…it meets the tribunals legal requirements for the 30 days notice – but if they refuse to leave then
    1. you will have to go through to tribunal — police won’t do anything- they need to be “evicted” by the sheriff :(
    2. tribunal can be funny at times…they will try to protect the interest of both parties so if tenants says they need more time to “find” a new place…due to the stress of the property sale then tribunal may grant them another 20-30 days…
    3. tribunal is a headache and time consuming – leave it to the vendor if you can

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
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    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
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    @ferdinandch
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    I don’t quite understand with this contract works. It is said, the settlement takes place 42 days after exchanging the contract. So it is binding or not ?

    Vendor needs to give 30 days notice to tenant, it is binding or not ?

    I am actually really frustrated with my current place I am living. One bedroom for one couple to live (12 sqm). And another bedroom for all of our things. We eat, we watch TV, we study are all in a 12sqm bedroom. It is really really frustrating. Before I got married, it was perfectly fine, but now, a couple’s life boxed in a 12sqm bedroom, you know how frustrating it is.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes, the contracts would be binding (assuming all requirements met), but that doesn't mean people will honour them

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Mick CMick C
    Participant
    @shape
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    ferdinandch wrote:
    I don’t quite understand with this contract works. It is said, the settlement takes place 42 days after exchanging the contract. So it is binding or not ?

    Vendor needs to give 30 days notice to tenant, it is binding or not ?

    I am actually really frustrated with my current place I am living. One bedroom for one couple to live (12 sqm). And another bedroom for all of our things. We eat, we watch TV, we study are all in a 12sqm bedroom. It is really really frustrating. Before I got married, it was perfectly fine, but now, a couple’s life boxed in a 12sqm bedroom, you know how frustrating it is.

    I find it resolve a better solution and quicker solution to be “fair” rather then be nasty and do “everything” by the legal books etc.
    i would- Go to the tenant’s place and have a “friendly” chat and just let them know you are the new owner and wanted to see if they have “found” a place to move out to …by doing this
    1. you can confirm they are AWARE of a move
    2. Build that “relationship”
    3. Understand each another requirement — you never know maybe they only need an extra 2-3 days??

    Regards
    Michael

    Mick C | Shape Home Loans
    http://www.shapehomeloans.com.au/
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    Same Banks. Better Rates. Served With a Passion.

    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
    Member
    @ferdinandch
    Join Date: 2010
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    The selling agent actually is helping me now, he keeps me updated with the tenant. I actually quite believe that the tenant will be able to find a place before 11/08. Only my solicitor’s response drove me mad, when he said we couldn’t do anything other than do not settle if the tenant is still there, which is quite possible.

    I understand now what I can do, which is waiting.

    Thanks for your opinion and advice, Michael and Terry.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    There would be nothing your solicitor could do as the tenant is not yours. He could only suggest you not settle, or settle and then he could start legal proceedings to kick them out (at your expense!)

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
    Member
    @ferdinandch
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    Post Count: 91

    Hi Guys,

    Now I am waiting for the settlement. The tenant has indicated to be able to move out on 13th, and settlement can take place on 15th. That means 4 days later than original expected settlement date, which I am fine.

    For the time being, I am thinking about what will happen in the next 2-3 years. My loan structure is Interest Only for 5 years. I understand that the purpose is flexibility in case I want to change the dwelling to become IP and tax benefit of it. But I don’t think we will rent out that place. The reasons are below:

    1. The property as an IP ,won’t be a positive cash flow property by its own. The vacancy rate will be definitely low, as it is located 300 metres from a well-known university. But the rental rate won’t match the the interest on the loan. Unless I use my offset account to reduce the interest charge. Mr.Excel told me that it will be -600 to -800 p/month. But one think I’m pretty sure, the capital growth will be above average.

    2. I personally like the property, and when I bought it, I was doing calculation and consideration as a PPOR. That means, I don’t care about rental yield, undervalued property, etc. But I know clearly it is not overvalued and it is not a lemon.

    Based on those reasons, I think if I want to create wealth in the foreseeable future, I need to buy IPs somewhere else and that means (what I know), getting my PPOR revalued and top up the loan, with little help from my saving, I should be able to buy more. My wife and I are not ambitious or obsessed of having 100 properties. We think about 3-5 manageable, safe (capital growth and vacancy rate), and low to medium risk properties (including PPOR). Which means one or two negative CF properties will be fine as long as it meets those conditions mentioned above.

    My wife personally is not comfortable (like most of people out there) at seeing our offset account getting bigger and bigger, and it is a transaction account, which she is worried about the safety. We were arguing about this, and she might want to repay the balance of the loan in case no investment plan in 3 years. We have done our calculation since beginning, if we make extra repayments, the whole loan balance will be repaid in 6-7 years (if nothing major, unexpected and unpleasant happened of course).

    My question is, is the structure still good for this plan? (i.e. free up some equities and use it for the IP purchases). Any pros and cons will be great.

    Many thanks

    Ferdinand

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Ideally you shouldn't pay down the loan in case it becomes an investment later. If you do pay it down and then want to buy a new place to live in then you will be worse off in terms of tax. Using an offset will still save you the same interest.

    But, this is just the numbers side of things. You also have to think about other factors such as being tempted to spend the cash in the offset. There is also the sleep at night factor, if you wife is worried about it then probably best to do what feels comfortable. You are still moving ahead and paying off debt is always a good thing.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
    Member
    @ferdinandch
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 91

    Thanks Terry,

    But I still have a question, is the IO structure and offset account still good if I get the property revalued, top up the loan, and free up some equities to buy IP somewhere else ? That means I will have another loan (90% LVR probably), original loan will be getting bigger and untouched balance in the offset account (in case the freed equities enough to cover the the 10% of second loan).

    Many Thanks

    Ferdinand

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes, IO loan still the way to go.

    But get the new top up as a separate loan, and don't have the money from the top up placed into the offset as the interest won't be fully deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of ferdinandchferdinandch
    Member
    @ferdinandch
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 91
    Terryw wrote:
    Yes, IO loan still the way to go.

    But get the new top up as a separate loan, and don't have the money from the top up placed into the offset as the interest won't be fully deductible.

    What you were saying is if I buy IPs and make it IO, don’t use an offset account attached to it ?

    If say it I get it topped up, and free up 30k and use it as the 10 percent of the IP, as a separate loan, will the interest on it also fully deductible?

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