All Topics / Overseas Deals / Investment in SE Asia

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  • Profile photo of David22MayDavid22May
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    @david22may
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 7

    Has anyone here invested in property in SE Asia. We are considering a piece of land and a build in Thailand or something off the plan in Bali. Any thoughts?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
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    I have property in Thailand and a friend with property in Indonesia.

    I would strongly advise you not to invest there!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of Jamie MooreJamie Moore
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    @jamie-m
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    Terryw wrote:
    I would strongly advise you not to invest there!

    Which one Terry? Thailand or Indonesia?

    Jamie Moore | Pass Go Home Loans Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    either!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of ForeverStudentForeverStudent
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    @foreverstudent
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 41

    We (as a group) have purchased and purchasing more properties in the Phils only because the developer/company that we are dealing provides quality for good value. They also have triple A credit rating (The only one in the country that I know of).

    People there would rather buy new cars than buy property, there's a growing middle class and willing to pay good money for rent. They are also cashflow positive deals.

    Profile photo of BoogieBoogie
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    @boogie
    Join Date: 2011
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    Can someone give a specific reason why we should avoid investing in Thailand and Bali?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, I can.

    Firstly you have the rule of law. Over there the law does not have the same weight as in Australia. Bribery and fraud are rife and people can steal your land and other assets easily. I wouldn't even trust money in the bank there. Caveats have little weight, mortgage also – because people can easily forge signatures and documents etc.police are extremely corrupt. You cannot drive a car in thailand without having to pay a bribe at least once per month to a corrupt cop.

    I have one friend who shacked up with an indonesian woman who brought a unit in his own name and somehow it ended up in her name. She stole it from him, then dumped him and he has been fighting for 5+ years to get it back. He has an order from the supreme court there, but still cannot get the unit out of her name. I went with him to Indonesia a few years ago to sort it out, and dealing with the bureacuracy there is extremely frustrating.

    In Thailand, there is this man who had his $2mil AUD property stolen by his maid. It ended up being owned by the sister of the police chief and he cannot get it back. see these websites:
    http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story-other.php?sid=389

    http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=403

    Secondly, how will you borrow to buy there? It will be very hard to get a loan to purchase there. So you will have to have cash or borrow from Australian property. Why not invest here where you will get a good return and rent a place there with the proceeds?

    Thirdly you will need to speak and understand the written language where you are investing. If you can't you shouldn't invest. There are many different types of land title in Thailand and you need to be able to understand this and lease, mortgages, property law etc.

    forthly, what about the political instability. In Thailand the king is 84 and frail, he will die soon and there will be a huge change in the society. Who knows what will happen.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of BoogieBoogie
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    @boogie
    Join Date: 2011
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    Wow…

    I bet you can write a book about it Terry. As you mentioned more about Thailand than Bali, can I assume that Bali is a bit more secure?

    I recently read that Indonesian government is looking to change their regulation to make it a lot more friendly to investors. This is also applicable to property business, which in this terms goes for foreigners.

    I am not sure whether it is really a good improvement, as on the other side we still cannot buy property  there, unless we use nominee system. In the upcoming regulation (in process) foreigners can do leasehold for a minimum 70 years term.

    In nominee system, I have been advised that we can actually make it secure by registering the certificate on mortgage and therefore preventing the nominee from selling the property. However, I am not sure whether it will really work.

    Or, another option is buying the property under company name, which means that we should run a business in Bali.

    Anyway, I am still not sure about it and would appreciate further comments.

    Thanks Terry

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I don't know much about indonesia, more about thailand. That doesn't mean Indonesia is more secure. I think it is jsut as corrupt there as in Thailand.

    I know that you can do a lot to prevent the nomiee seling such as mortgaging, 30 year leases, caveats, options etc. But how well these work is not known. If you read the link about you will see someone forged the guy's signature and just sold his property so nothing could have safeguarded against that.

    At one stage the good friend of a high ranking police officer was renting my friends apartment in Jakarta (off the fraudulent owner). Getting her out was a delicate operation because of her connections. My mate had the key and just went in there which was very dangerous. You can get killed for things like this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://Terryw.com.au/

    Profile photo of thecrestthecrest
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    @thecrest
    Join Date: 2004
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    Terry's sooo right, better to stick to democracies where you understand the language and actually have rights and justice.
    We lost our shirt in the idyllic South Pacific and discovered why so many places are aptly described as a graveyard of entrepreneurs. Australia is a fantastic land of opportunity  – the grass is very green on this side of the fence.
    Good luck
    Cheers
    thecrest

    thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
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    selling motels in NSW

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Builders Of Most Expensive House On Sydney Harbour Go To War In Indonesia

    http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=404

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    https://terryw.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://Terryw.com.au/

    Profile photo of AitutakiAitutaki
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    @aitutaki
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 2

    Near Vientiane in north east Thailand, overlooking mountain lakes and the Mekong River, I bought:

    • A rubber tree plantation
    • A development block
    • A new house and land package


    Our brick and tile home in peaceful rural Thailand is in my wife's name. I'm not too worried about losing my shirt because land is so cheap there. There aren't too many places in the world, 18km from an international airport, @ $6,000 for a house and land package.

    Profile photo of trendyrock45trendyrock45
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    @trendyrock45
    Join Date: 2011
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    hey david!
    yes i have a friend in thailand and he is my partner also in some of my property which is i have in thailand.very friendly i suggest you to do not invest.

    Profile photo of mattstamattsta
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    @mattsta
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 604

    Wow nice thai property. I love thailand, and am wondering about investing property there as an Aussie. Is it possible to invest property in Thailand? If so, how would one go about starting to do that? Do I need to invest with a Thai person? I prefer to invest on my own (without a Thai person), if thats possible…

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    It is possible but only invest with money that you are prepared to lose

    Foreigners cannot own land so you would need thais to help you even if forming a company you need majority thai ownership

    Great place to retire to cheap, but bkk getting expensive countryside still very cheap

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
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    @zmagen
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 523

    I’d go for the phillipines or Japan- alot safer law-wise, far more regulated, tax picture very clear in advance.

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Partner & Executive Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

    Profile photo of crustycrusty
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    @crusty
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 127

     Id go to phillippiines too,  but not if you want a sound ivestment, consider it speculating or life style choice, a journey or buffering  It is risky investing in PI .    You will need to piss in pockets, have contacts in the right places,  Buy the police cheif  a set of golf clubs for christmas was the first piece of advice I  got when investing there.  Those with power are corrupt right to the very top. There is no  justice the law is the police can do whatever they want and what they want can usually be decided by a donation.  I have seen one property get sold to 3 different foreingers in one year, while the owner and all the respective lawyer had a  ball  sucking them all dry.  Have also been at court there when australians have been sentenced to death  for drug dealing, to keep the media and every-one satisfied.  Stopped at  a bar on the way home same day  and saw the guys who were supposed to be on death row, having a grand old time drinking and carrying on.  When asked why the werent in jail they said they bribed the judge, and now it has all been forgotten about.  I know many people who have been setup and thrown in jail, some who cant pay just rot there.  I could write  a book  with endless examples.  Have any convictions been made for the ampatuan massacre?  Once again   alot of noise made then forgotten  about?  mmmmm allies of a corrupt government?    I was in Mindanoa during conflct   and saw idiot western government supporting PI army to fight NPA, the soldiers would go home after working as a soldier switch uniform and become NPA.   It is all just a game you play in the PI. And for some strange reason those in power are respected and not despized like they should be.

    Profile photo of Ziv Nakajima-MagenZiv Nakajima-Magen
    Participant
    @zmagen
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 523

    You sound like you know alot more about the Philippines than I do – personally, I only know a few who invested there, and they seem generally happy. My personal specialty is Japan, in any case ;)

    Ziv Nakajima-Magen | Nippon Tradings International (NTI)
    http://www.nippontradings.com
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    Ziv Nakajima-Magen - Partner & Executive Manager, Asia-Pacific @ NTI - Japan Real-Estate Investment Property

    Profile photo of ksherwellksherwell
    Member
    @ksherwell
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 125

    Some very good comments Terry. I doubt that I would consider purchasing a property in SE Asia (especially Thailand) as the risks are extremely high and as Terry said you should be prepared to lose the money. It will also be very difficult to obtain finance.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Another terrorism incident in bangkok last week too!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    https://terryw.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://Terryw.com.au/

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