All Topics / Help Needed! / Dead man walking or masterstroke?

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  • Profile photo of jules57jules57
    Participant
    @jules57
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 11

    I am currently saving for a deposit to purchase my first IP, in the meantime I have been reading books, this forum, talking to real estate agents, builders and other people already in the game.

     

    I have thrown a few ideas around as to how I would be able to build a portfolio in a shorter than usual period of time.

     

    My question is: If I purchase a house and land package off the plan for say 280k, (56k deposit) (20%) knowing that the value of the finished product is say 350k, does that leave me with 126k equity? (350-280+56)

     

    If this is the case, couldn’t you just use that equity for a 20% deposit on the next IP and so on. Providing of course you IP’s are in an area that has a low vacancy rate (the one I’m looking at is around 3%)

     

    Interested if this idea is a dead man walking or a masterstroke…

    Profile photo of LinarLinar
    Member
    @linar
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 567

    Hi Jules

    Your proposed strategy is no dead man walking but it is certainly not a masterstroke either.  People have been doing this for years and years and years.  In fact, it is about the most commonly used strategy for building wealth using property.

    Having said that, it is not quite so simple.  Assuming the house is valued at $350,000 on completion, and you have a loan of $224,000 against that property, you would have 56K equity as a bank will only lend up to 80% LVR.  Then the ugly issue of servicability arises.  Does your income allow you to cover the shortfall in the mortgages?  Using this strategy, there will be a point when you don't meet the bank's servicability requirements.  Whether that is owning one IP or 10 will depend on your income.  Banks are getting tougher and tougher on lending.

    Still, it is very conservative (in terms of risk) and time proven method of building wealth, with the only problem being that you can't pull equity out a easily as you could a couple of years ago.

    Cheers

    K

    Profile photo of jules57jules57
    Participant
    @jules57
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 11

    Thanks for the reply  K,

    The loans will be serviced by both myself and my partner with combined income of around $120k. Would it be better to have the first IP under one name (mine) and the second under my partner’s name?

    Does the bank consider income from an IP to be contributed as a method of serviceability? or is it just based on your wages?

    I will be getting some paid help with regards to setting up the loan structure and if this is done right the first time I hope to be able to grow my portfolio without loan hassles. As far as the banks are concerned, is it better to get your broker/yourself to say right from the word go, this is my plan, I want to do this, this and that to get to here, now how can I do it based on this and that, or will they run for the hills?

    I am very new to this game and appreciate any feedback,

    Jules

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    Hi, the bank takes 75% (I think  or close to that) of the rent into account as you don't get all of that (with charges etc).

    If you are going through a broker tell them of your plan so they know how to structure to suit your needs.

    I would use the equity for deposit and legals. Get pre approval for a separate loan for the purchase. Best not to cross coll if you don't have to.

    Buying in separate names depends on your personal situation and what your goals are for the property. If the property is in your name only you claim the tax deductions. When you sell the CGT is added to your income.

    If you want to build a portfolio quickly buy under market value (and/or increase equity through reno) then revalue and use the increased equity to buy again. Repeat when practicable.

    Profile photo of jules57jules57
    Participant
    @jules57
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 11
    Linar wrote:
    Having said that, it is not quite so simple.  Assuming the house is valued at $350,000 on completion, and you have a loan of $224,000 against that property, you would have 56K equity as a bank will only lend up to 80% LVR. K

    Thanks everyone for you comments,

    This is the part that throws me, your saying that i can only lend 80% of the loan = $44,800 or 80% of what the property is valued at = $70,000? or do i just have 54k of equity because that is 20% of the original price of the property (20% of 280k = 56k) ??

    I was thinking that putting our first IP under my partners name due to her paying more income tax than me. Then, putting our second IP under my name giving me tax benefits. Or will this cause problems in terms of serviceability?

    Why is it harder these days to pull out equity? 

    Linar wrote:
    I would use the equity for deposit and legals. Get pre approval for a separate loan for the purchase. Best not to cross coll if you don't have toK

       

    Does this mean you have one loan for first IP, then pull equity out for deposit and legal’s for second IP and then create a new loan for that. I think im getting what Cross Coloration means, when you have one loan servicing more than one IP?

    Thanks again

    Jules

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
    Participant
    @catalyst
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1,404

    do i just have 54k of equity because that is 20% of the original price of the property (20% of 280k = 56k) ?? 

    YES

    Yes- cross coll is when 2 or more properties are tied together. Some people borrow 100% or more on an IP but it is crossed with their PPOR so together they are under 80%..

    Get a line of credit on your PPOR. Use that for deposit and legals. Set up a new loan for the IP only (80%). That way it;'s not crossed with your PPOR.

    When you get more equity either in your PPOR (increase LOC) or IP1 (increase loan amount). Use this equity for deposit and legals on IP2. Get new 80% loan for the purchase.

    That way everything is separate. You can sell any one anytime.

    Profile photo of Greg ReidGreg Reid
    Member
    @greg-reid
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 91

    Jules,
    The concept is a sound one and some of the responses raise good points.
    To build a portfolio quickly with what you have said, you need to use as little of your own money as possible and borrow more for each property. LMI is just a cost of doing this. Based on your combined incomes, it should be possible to purchase 2 IP's if not more if you are smart about properties purchased.

    You are presuming that the H&L will come up to $350k, an assumption that doesn't always work out.  Depending on stamp duty in your state (or not) it will add to the funds you need to pay to settle. There are not that many developers that I know of who leave that much on the table.

    However, working on your assumptions and costs, as long as you can show servicing (pick your first lender carefully) than you could revalue to 90% after completion and pull our $350k * 90% = $315k, less LMI of say $7k = $308k, less the initial loan of $224k, you will have access to $84k. As an investor wanting to build a multiple property portfolio, you set up a LOC for this $84k and use it to fund the next IP.

    You use $60k again and borrow 85% to 90% from another lender to settle the second IP. The choice of the second IP is critical as well, making sure you can show servicing for the new loan. Lenders use different criteria, different assessment rates, different living expenses allowances, different treatment of existing loans, different rental income assessments, some allow 100%, others 80% and others 75%.

    You plan your third IP purchase before you obtain finance for the first IP and determine what the characteristics of each IP needs to be so you can borrow for the third IP.

    As Linar said, it is harder to continually obtain finance so you need to think the three steps ahead, down to property type, price, deposit required, which lender to use in what order. Most mortgage brokers do not know how to do this or even know they need to. Find an experienced MB who is a multiple owner themselves and know how to do this for you. Unless you know what you want, I would not use a bank directly. You run the risk of them doing credit checks and that can come back and bite you in the backside big time down the track.

    As to ownership and structure, on the basis that asset protection is not critical, marginal income tax rates are one aspect to consider, time in the workforce and future plans is another. I have a client, both on good incomes but were planning a family in 5 years and one will be staying home, the choice was to purchase a lower priced IP with a higher rent yield in the name of the person to stay home. The IP was negatively geared now but likely to be neutral if not positive in 5 years, so greater longer term  benefit in one name rather than the other. The second IP was purchased in other partners name with lower rent yield but greater capital growth potential and higher value.
    Another client, three IP's were purchased in one name due to high MTR before the 4th was purchased in spouse name. The first three IP's were new or near new to obtain better depreciation benefits yet still yield reasonable rental income in capital growth areas. The 4th IP was targeted towards more neutrally geared perhaps without the higher capital growth potential.

    Property investing has become more scientific than previously where the ability to borrow and refinance was ridiculously easy and people just went for capital growth. Now it is about maintaining the ability to borrow for the next IP and the one after that.
    Good luck
    Greg

    Profile photo of jules57jules57
    Participant
    @jules57
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 11

    Hi Greg, Thanks for such a detailed response, are you a Mortgage Broker yourself? Based on my current calculations, the rough figure of 350k is based on similar property’s in the same area, I have received quotation from a property valuer to get a more accurate number at a cost of around $500, does this sound reasonable? The other costs I need to consider is legal and stamp duty, I have estimated around $1200 for legal, I know stamp duty is 3k and Mortgage Registration fee around $200. There is some other costs like ½ a fence, concrete drive way and landscaping. (con d-way and landscaping will be done by myself and my dad) so might save a bit of money there, so all up for that I’m estimating around 6k. You mentioned LMI at around 7k, is that just an additional cost associated with the loan until the LVR gets below 80%, how do they work it out? Is it a % of the original loan? At this stage we plan to get to 3 IP’s as quickly as possible, therefore as you and others have mentioned, choosing the right lender for our first will be critical. We will be looking within the price rage of 300k-350k for our 2nd and 3rd IP’s. I will be looking for an experienced MB and will be hoping to use someone from this site due to their knowledge in IP’s and because of the help that has been given to me thus far. Feel free to contact me directly through email if interested, [email protected] Thanks, Jules

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