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  • Profile photo of mookiimookii
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    @mookii
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 12

    Does anyone know what stamp duty applies in property option deals – that is for the person controlling the property for a while?  Is there stamp duty payable on the option – if so what is this?  or on the property – as per a typical contract of sale?  Are there any legislation links you could point me to?

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
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    Hi mookii

    Stamp Duty is a State based tax and it would help if you could let us know what State you're opperating in as there are quite a few differences between the States.

    Speaking only of "Call Options", most States only charge Stamp Duty on the Option Fee.  so if you pay an Option Fee of $100, you only pay Stamp Duty on that $100 (not the Strike Price).

    However in Victoria, if there is a Lease associated with your Call Option, you must pay full Stamp Duty on the Strike Price when the Lease and Option are entered into.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Look up the Duties Act in the state you are buying and see if options are dutiable property. NSW has introduced new stamp duty rules on put/call options too where they are treated like buying a property outright. Before people used to enter into a put/call option agreement and then onsell the property with the stamp duty being based on the option fee – which was very low.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of mookiimookii
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    @mookii
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    Hi guys
    Thanks for your replies, I'm investing in VIC. I'm not quite sure as to the legal vehicle I need to use for the strategy I'm planning on following.  In brief, I'm thinking of renovating houses and using some type of an agreement to control them through the renovation time and then finding a buyer for them.  I've been looking up put and call option agreements and also Option to purchase… are these the same thing? Could I use one or the other?  Do they incur stamp duty in VIC on just the option fee?  or is there something else I could use?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The legal entity doesn't matter for calculating stamp duty on the option.

    An option to purchase in dutiable property, s 10 Duties Act 2000 (vic)
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/da200093/s10.html

    The amount would be on the option fee.

    A put call type agreement is one where you are in a binding agreement. The seller cannot exit because you have an option and you cannot exit because the seller has an option (the call) to lock you in. A normal option is different because you can back out – but the seller can't.

    If you are entering into a put/call type agreement, then…

    Look at Division 4, s 32P onwards, on the Duties Act 2000 (vic) for put call options
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/da200093/

    Looks like you will have to pay stamp duty as if you had entered the contract of sale and onsold it.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of mookiimookii
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    @mookii
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    It's fantastic when someone puts it in plain english, thank you so much, i was struggling to differentiate the 2.  And thanks for the links!!! Off to do some reading!

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
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    @pauldobson
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    Hi mookii

    As Terry says, in Vic you will be liable for Stamp Duty upon entering into a Put Option and a Put & Call Option on a property.  The Stamp Duty will be calculated on the Strike Price of the Put or Put & Call Option.

    However, if you control the property via a Call Option, without an associated Lease on the property, you are only liable to pay Stamp duty on the Option Fee.

    Therefore IF you are able to control a property with a Call Option, without an assocaited Lease on the property, while you renovate the property, you should not be liable to pay Stamp Duty on the Option Strike Price upon entering the Option.

    As always, check with your accountant.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
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    Profile photo of Sarahb7Sarahb7
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    @sarahb7
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 4

    Hi Paul,

    So if I understand your response to Mookii above, if I have a call option (one where I can opt out of the deal) I pay Stamp Duty on the Option Fee, which in my case was $1.00, I'm in Victoria & so is the land.

    The question I have is when I assign the Option Agreement what do I pay & what on?

    Do I pay GST on anything?
    Do I pay Stamp Duty on anything?

    I've spoken with 2 lawyers, an accountant & an developer who uses Options in QLD & all give the same advise.

    The site is Residential Zone 1 & will remain Residential Zone 1, I can either Short Sell my Option Agreement now to a developer, or  Long Sell my Option Agreement to a developer once I have Planning Approval.

    I just want to know what I have to pay to the ATO or State Revenue Office, to work out how much I need to ask to cover the costs.

    Your advice would be appreciated.
    Sarah

    Profile photo of Sarahb7Sarahb7
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    @sarahb7
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    Sorry, I meant that neither the lawyers, account & developer can agree, they all give different answers.
     
    Regards,
    Sarah

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sarah
    Look at a recent Vic case Drouin Commercial Pty Ltd v Commissioner of State Revenue  [2009] VCAT 1082
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2009/1082.html

    see the summary of it here
    http://www.blakedawson.com/Templates/Publications/x_publication_content_page.aspx?id=56135

    That may give you some clues (I haven't read it)

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Sarahb7Sarahb7
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    @sarahb7
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    Thanks Terry,

    I've read that legalese summary, which doesn't clarify what was payable by the Option holder upon assignment of the Option Agreement to the actual purchaser, from the vendor + the laws have been amended since this case, so it would appear not that relevant to 2010 situations.

    I would apprecaite it if anyone could clarify what is payable by an Option holder in Victoria, upon assignment of the Option to another party who is ultimately the purchaser of the land (with or without a Planning Permit).

    Regards,
    Sarahb7

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sarah, you should read the full case.

    see s32Q
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/da200093/s32q.html

    32Q. How duty is charged on transfer



    (1) Duty on a transfer to which this Division applies is not charged in
    respect of the transfer from the vendor to the transferee, but is charged
    separately and distinctly on-

    (a) the dutiable value of the option; and

    (b) the dutiable value of the subsequent transaction by which the final
    subsequent purchaser obtained the transfer right; and

    (c) if there were any other subsequent transactions, the dutiable value of
    each of those transactions.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of mookiimookii
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    @mookii
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 12

    Terry, Paul, you seem quite knowledgable in this area.  What's your thoughts/advice on the 'marketing' of options to purchase to the vendor… that is –  when selling the idea to a vendor, what proposition do you put to them?  I guess in a normal property sale a deposit is paid, how do you go about avoiding this?  I would think that you'd have a lot better chance in a buyers market, where the property has been on the market for a while and the owner is prepared to take any type of offer, but how about in a sellers market, would the payment of some type of a deposit be consdiered a 'purchase' rather then an 'option to purchase'?

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It will be hard to sell the idea of an option to a vendor because they will not probably understand it and they really won't get much out of the deal other than the option fee. You could increase your option fee and remind them that they get to keep this even if the option lapses and nothing further happens.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Sarahb7Sarahb7
    Member
    @sarahb7
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 4

    Thanks Terry,

    However in layman's terms, is duty – Stamp Duty & if so what about GST?

    So if I understand the above SD is payable on the value of the Option, however I can't work out what amount it would be due on, is it the value of the land, the option fee or the option assignment price?

    So I would appreciate it if you could advise based on the scenario below:

    Option fee $1.00 – how much GST is payable by me & how much SD do I owe the SRO?
    Option is assigned to a Developer for $500k – how much GST do I owe the ATO & how much SD do I owe the SRO?
    Land is RZ1, will remain RZ1 & is to be purchased for $1M by the Developer from the Vendor, I don't ever own the land.

    Regards,
    Sarah

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Without checking too closely i think if you purchase an option on a property for $1 then you would pay stamp duty on the amount of $1 – there is probably a minimum nominal sum.

    If you then onsold the option you would have  capital gain of selling price less purchase price less costs. So on your example $499,999 capital gain. You wouldn't get the 50% discount unless you had held it for 12 months of more. less legals.

    Why not ring the OSR and ask them the question. Say you are buying an option on some land and how is the stamp duty calculated. They won't give legal advice but should be able to help with a basic question like this.

    GST is a different matter. I am not sure if it would apply, but if it did then it is 10%, so you would pay 10c on the purchase and have to charge 10% on the sale which would be $50,000 on $500,000.

    On another note, why would a vendor accept a $1 option price? They will not benefit much out of it, and will probably spend $500 in fees for their lawyer to explain it to them (and tell them not to accept).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of gmarksnowdengmarksnowden
    Member
    @gmarksnowden
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 6

    hi all,

    Can any one help me find a lawer to help me write up a leger doc to make a Property options.

    Thanks
    Mark

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    What do you mean by ledger doc?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of coalstarcoalstar
    Participant
    @coalstar
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 122

    does anyone know if you have a property under a call option agreement/contract, say for 12 months, can you collect the rent (total or part of) for that period and whether income tax would be payable?

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
    Participant
    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,196

    Hi Coalstar

    Always check with your lawyer and accountant but yes, you can write almost anything into an Option Agreement that both parties agree upon.  And if this Agreement is generating income for one of the parties, that income will have to be taken into account in its overall tax position.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

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