All Topics / Overseas Deals / 2 Day Tax Lien Workshop

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  • Profile photo of MarshesMarshes
    Participant
    @marshes
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 33

    This read may be of interest to Steve and other people who are plan on using the threat of foreclose to get their tax liens paid.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-homeowners-choose-to-default-on-loans-2010-05-17

    Obviously due diligence will always let one navigate around the pitfalls. People should stay on their toes at all times ;)

    Profile photo of natebnateb
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    @nateb
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 5

    It appears that Florida state law requires the counties to start their sales before or on June 1st, so they are all now finished, and I can't see any more starting until at least 3Q 2010. So that means we need to look at over-the-counter. Is anyone exploring OTC tax certs held in Florida?

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
    Keymaster
    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 1,763

    Yep – the FL auctions are now over for 2010, but those 'sold back' to the county are available for over-the-counter purchase. I will be looking at them.

    That said, other States have auctions in other months.

    In regards to strategic 'hand back' mortgages, we talked about this at the event when covering the due diligence. In particular, the rule about the maximum amount of all outstanding tax liens being less than 40% of the value of the property.

    That way, even if the home owner walks away, if there is a mortgage the lender will want to pay out the lienholder rather than losing their mortgage (which is presumably worth much more than the tax lien).

    In fact, properties in this category make excellent liens to hold as they will likely go the distance and will only be redeemed once foreclosure is started. This way you get full value for return, are not kicking anyone out of their house, and will be ultimately repaid.

    – Steve McKnight

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of djjkdjjk
    Participant
    @djjk
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 87

    Has anyone managed to make it work by investing in tax liens?  Interested to hear from some investors that have been doing this for a while.

    Profile photo of mj351mj351
    Member
    @mj351
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 4

    will there be any further workshops in melb?

    Profile photo of natebnateb
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    @nateb
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 5
    SteveMcKnight wrote:
    Yep – the FL auctions are now over for 2010, but those 'sold back' to the county are available for over-the-counter purchase. I will be looking at them.

    How are you planning on paying for them? ie. you need to include W9 and cert #s with a cheque drawn in US funds from a US bank. I can't see how to get a US bank cheque in Australia – I presume that Citibank and HSBC are locally consituted affiliates and thus may not be recognised as a US bank?

    The only way I can see to do it is either:
    a) Get the cheque sent to me and package it all up and send it (slow!)
    b) Get the cheque sent to Tommy and send him the W9 and cert #s (for which he charges $100 or we need the advanced plan?)
    N

    Profile photo of crazyacrazya
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    @crazya
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 3
    nateb wrote:
    It appears that Florida state law requires the counties to start their sales before or on June 1st, so they are all now finished, and I can't see any more starting until at least 3Q 2010. So that means we need to look at over-the-counter. Is anyone exploring OTC tax certs held in Florida?

    Hey nateb

    Yep exploring those options right now.  Just doing practice searching for OTC certificates and getting used to the various county sites.  Currnently up to Clay County.  Unfortunately some websites are very cumbersome and not user friendly, lee county is streaks ahead of some.

    I am finding that OTC Certs are the dregs of the sales and it does take some effort to find anything worth investigating further.  Therefore getting in on the auctions may be more efficient (but i guess the due diligence will take the same time)

    That said, I can't seem to remember how to find if past tax liens on the property were paid?

    Cheers
    Crazya

    Profile photo of podneypodney
    Participant
    @podney
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 31

    I am currently setting up an account with hsbc and i was told by them that the US checking account is for internet banking only. To bank a cheque with hsbc you also need to set up a savings account with them but I was advised that it will not be worth it if cheques are of low value. They have to send the cheque back to the US to varify it, then it gets returned back to here. This can take up to 6 weeks also. Charges of $18 min each time it is posted along with other fees.
    Hopefully most of the US counties will get up to speed and be able to do direct bank transfers into our US accounts. I have emailed Lee county asking if they will be heading in this direction soon, still awaiting a reply.
    I assume if worst comes to worst we can post the cheque ourselves to our US bank  for them to deposit into the account. Well hope so anyway.
    will post any new information when it comes.

    Profile photo of crazyacrazya
    Participant
    @crazya
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 3
    podney wrote:
    I am currently setting up an account with hsbc and i was told by them that the US checking account is for internet banking only. To bank a cheque with hsbc you also need to set up a savings account with them but I was advised that it will not be worth it if cheques are of low value. They have to send the cheque back to the US to varify it, then it gets returned back to here. This can take up to 6 weeks also. Charges of $18 min each time it is posted along with other fees.
    Hopefully most of the US counties will get up to speed and be able to do direct bank transfers into our US accounts. I have emailed Lee county asking if they will be heading in this direction soon, still awaiting a reply.
    I assume if worst comes to worst we can post the cheque ourselves to our US bank  for them to deposit into the account. Well hope so anyway.
    will post any new information when it comes.

    Rodney,

    Can you clarify, were you advised you had to set up a HSBC Australian savings account? If so, i could understand that you will get charged to deposit a US drawn cheque (all banks do this, but the fee varies though).  If thats the case I would just accumulate the cheques and send them to the US via registered international mail to the HSBC branch where your account will be located.

    I have been looking at HSBC too.  From my reading of the documentation, I should only need to set up a US cheque account.  The only downside for these accounts is that they do not provide interest on the money in the account and they do have monthly account keeping fees (if you are below the minimum monthly amount).

    Crazya

    Profile photo of daveclimbsdaveclimbs
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    @daveclimbs
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1

    What are the benefits, if any, of managing your own tax lien investments over investing in a tax lien fund? The lack of thorough due diligence (ie local knowledge); the difficulty (and increased risk) of managing potential foreclosure from abroad not to mention your time invested in researching the available lien inventory must eat into the potential ROI as compared to a one off investment in a tax lien fund which itself can return around 16% pa. I'm interested in what people know about this?

    Profile photo of aussieinvestoraussieinvestor
    Participant
    @aussieinvestor
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 67

    Folks

    I’ve been using HSBC for some 5 years now, without any hassles or complaints. I set this account up through a branch in Melbourne.

    To get around the ‘check’ issue, my attorneys have a limited power of attorney to act on my behalf for Real Estate transactions and have banked checks on my behalf also. They both hold ‘operating funds’ in escrow for me and I provide written or email direction on the use of those funds. All I need to do then is top-up the escrow account by wire transfer from my HSBC account for future purchases. When a transaction is made, a part of the documentation includes a copy of statement for my escrow account.

    I use two attorneys. One for the more conventional property transactions and one for the more ‘creative’ transactions. They both specialise in these areas.

    Another avenue to look at is ‘tax deed’ investing. Google it and have a look at the difference. Each one differs depending on the strategy you choose to follow, however tax deeds appear to be a very attractive proposition. I wasn’t aware of the tax lien seminar so I don’t know if tax deeds were also covered as a topic.

    I hope this info is of some assistance.

    Cheers.

    Peter

    aussieinvestor | Digital Revenue Pty Ltd
    http://appliancewhiz.com
    Email Me

    Profile photo of djjkdjjk
    Participant
    @djjk
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 87
    daveclimbs wrote:
    What are the benefits, if any, of managing your own tax lien investments over investing in a tax lien fund? The lack of thorough due diligence (ie local knowledge); the difficulty (and increased risk) of managing potential foreclosure from abroad not to mention your time invested in researching the available lien inventory must eat into the potential ROI as compared to a one off investment in a tax lien fund which itself can return around 16% pa. I'm interested in what people know about this?

    I am also interested in tax lien funds.  I think these are a great idea as it cuts out the admin and banking issues that you inevitbly have dealing with US banks (trust me – they are a nightmare, this is why their banking system went downb the toilet).

    The only funds I know of Tax Lien Baron, Yield Profit fund and Comain.  Couldnt see anymore through my google searches?  Personally, Id rather stay away from one of these smaller operators.  Yet to see if one of the big fund mgrs run tax lien funds?  I think youd be safer investing in Macquarie, Merrill, UBS etc, even though the fees might be higher.  Interested if anyone knows more about Tax Lien funds. 
    .

    Profile photo of djjkdjjk
    Participant
    @djjk
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 87

    Just read this thread.  Might be worth looking into this prior to proceeding with Tax lien investing
    http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62877&page=2

    Profile photo of podneypodney
    Participant
    @podney
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 31

    [Podney,

    Can you clarify, were you advised you had to set up a HSBC Australian savings account? If so, i could understand that you will get charged to deposit a US drawn cheque (all banks do this, but the fee varies though).  If thats the case I would just accumulate the cheques and send them to the US via registered international mail to the HSBC branch where your account will be located.

    I have been looking at HSBC too.  From my reading of the documentation, I should only need to set up a US cheque account.  The only downside for these accounts is that they do not provide interest on the money in the account and they do have monthly account keeping fees (if you are below the minimum monthly amount).

    Crazya

    Hi Crazya
    I was advised against a HSBC Australian savings account. Just to costly for small transactions. I was rang the other day from the US bank about something with my application and I asked the person on the phone about banking a cheque into that account and he mentioned to me I could have the cheque sent to them as long as I informed them it was coming and they would deposit  it for me. I guess it has to be sent to me first and then I send to the bank from Australia, bit of messing around but simple enough.
    Yes I just set up a US checking account.  Fees are $8 per month if less than $1500 in the account $3 per month for amounts over $1500.

    Profile photo of petejac1petejac1
    Member
    @petejac1
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 31

    Haven't received ITIN yet, can't wait to get it.

    Steve, if you are reading this I hope you can reply.  I notice that one of your Tax Lien's has gone to Tax Deed Application.  Just wondering how well it worked up to now? Did Ocean Glass contact you directly?Was their payment of your tax lien prompt?

    Profile photo of podneypodney
    Participant
    @podney
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 31

    Just a quick up date on HSBC, I have it all set up now and seems all pretty simple. Just awaiting my ITIN number so we can get started. I also have transfered some money direct to the HSBC US account through my PayPal account. It is probably not the best rate but was easy to set up and no fees have shown up at all for doing this. I just nominated the US accout instaed of my AU account. It took a few days to clear.
    Has any one received there ITIN yet?

    Profile photo of McNormanMcNorman
    Participant
    @mcnorman
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 20

    Anyone still looking to set up a US bank account could try Wachovia.
    I have the fee free checking acc, it cost nothing to set up and no monthly costs, even got a debit card + internet banking for free.
    I did however get hit with a $25 fee when ozforex transferred money into the account.

    I had it all set up by Pam Troutman, she was extremely helpful,  ph is ((0011)14043326763) or email [email protected]

    Hope this helps
    – Mick

    Profile photo of itsandrewitsandrew
    Participant
    @itsandrew
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 294

    Hi Darren,

    I haven't received my ITIN yet.  Anyone else?

    Andrew

    itsandrew

    Go as far as you can see and you will see further.

    Profile photo of petejac1petejac1
    Member
    @petejac1
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 31

    The IRS has a Phone Line that you can call to check the status of an Application.  I called them maybe 2 weeks ago, and they said they don't even have it lodged yet.  When I told her that it was probably lodged in June, she just laughed and said it can take 12 weeks, to be processed.

    Profile photo of MicahRMicahR
    Participant
    @micahr
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 4

    Hi All

    Yes im still waiting as well…… No news and its been a lot longer than the time that Tommy suggested.
    .
    Regards

    Mike

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