All Topics / Finance / Becoming a mortgage broker

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  • Profile photo of imported_Shackles Offimported_Shackles Off
    Member
    @shackles-off
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    Hi All,

    I am thinking of venturing into the world of finance / mortgage broking. I have no previous experience other than being shafted by a greedy broker that was worried about his own self and not what was best for me at the time or moving forward in the future.Ultimately it cost me big time.

    So I was wondering if anyone can recommend a good training organisation I could go to to do my CertIV, I am in WA so I need to be registered etc. Who is the best company to approach in regards to getting a start in this field, is there anyone renowned in the industry for giving someone a start and being prepared to train a newbie?

    Thanks for any help, appreciate it.

    Greg   

    Profile photo of Michael.LeeMichael.Lee
    Participant
    @michael.lee
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 106

    Gidday Greg,

    Conflict of interest caused by commission is a major driver in shafting stories like yours. If you want to get around that, you probably need to look into becoming a borrowers agent rather than a broker, but doing your cert iv is a starting point either way.

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Greg

    Hate to say hear stories like yours all day long.

    Try someone like Intellitrain. www.intellitrain.com.au

    Also why not give your local Aussie Home Loans a call as they provide an excellent grounding for someone starting out in the industry.

    Never worked or been involved with Aussie (although i did have a coffee with JS a month before he started the operation in parra) but now a few brokers who work for them.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of imported_Shackles Offimported_Shackles Off
    Member
    @shackles-off
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    Cheers Guys,

    Will look into it and try both Aussie and intellitrain. I guess it's a sad part of the industry that there are people around that are more concerned obout their commissions than doing what is right for the client. The way I see it if you do the right thing your clients will come back time and time again and refer you to friends and family. Shaft them and you have lost a client and a whole train of leads that could become clients in the future. Obviously I will never use this guy again and if anyone asks if I know a good broker the answer is no, but I do know one you dont want to use. A bit short sighted on their behalf?

    Any way thanks for the info and I will be sure to follow it up.

    Have a great day :)

    Greg

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Greg

    Totally agree with you.

    I guess it's a sad part of the industry that there are people around that are more concerned obout their commissions than doing what is right for the client.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Now is not a good time to start out as a broker. Low and reducing commissions and clawback backs. Also new legislation will mean residential brokers will need to be licenced with ASIC from Dec – which is good, but may mean more courses etc adding to the start up cost.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of imported_Shackles Offimported_Shackles Off
    Member
    @shackles-off
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    Hi Terry,

    Have spoken to a few brokers in WA who say they are still doing ok , it is taking longer to get deals through but still plenty of business around. I am not sure on commissions though. Is it generally around .75% ?

    I believe here in WA I would have to be licensed at the moment anyway so no extra cost there really. Will look into it further though. I think just doing the course is money well spent as I will now be a lot wiser when I do deal with the next broker?

    As far as Brokers having to be licenced with ASIC , great idea and about time :)

    Cheers

    Greg

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    I agree Greg cant believe any client could expect to deal with a Broker who is not qualified or licensed.

    Certainly no slowdown here in Qld either.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    Upfronts have dropped to around 0.50% max and many less than this. Trails have dropped much more. Some banks give nil in the first year and .2% second year on. Used to be 0.25 to 0.30% from day one. Clawbacks are also a killer. You may have to give back your commision if they discharge the loan within 18months.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of imported_Shackles Offimported_Shackles Off
    Member
    @shackles-off
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 4

    OK , I didn't understand the clawback thing totally when it came to commissions. That is interesting as a friend of mine was saying that banks were calling clients that had gone through a broker to offer them similar deals to what they were on without the costs of refinancing. In this way the banks no longer have to pay the broker the ongoing commission but didn't realise that they could claw back all the commissions you had been paid. What a nightmare to try and work out if you had paid tax on it etc.

    Can they claw back your initial up front commission on signing up the loan , surely not!

    I am offshore at the moment and can not contact any broking companies to find out all the ins and outs, appreciate your comments as I will have a better understanding of what to ask when I do contact them.

    Cheers

    Greg

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
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    @qlds007
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    Greg

    Hate to say it happens every day of the week.

    They tell the client oh that Broker will charge you a fee for his service or it will be cheaper to come through us or any other story they can get away with.

    As Terry mentioned clawback of commission lasts normally for 18 months after the loan has been drawn.
    You can do a loan, get paid and then after 17 months the client goes into the Bank branch and they do a further advance for $10,000 and they re-write the whole loan and you loose every cent you have been paid.

    There is as far as i am aware no other Professional industry where you get paid for the job you have done but after 18 months you can loose ever penny.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes, it can be painful have to give back all your upfront – but it doesn't really happen that often.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of PropertyPaulPropertyPaul
    Member
    @propertypaul
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 25

    Hi, I'm also considering this at the moment.

    If anyone could answer any of the following questions I would greatly appreciate it!

    What is the average rate of commission at the moment? Upfront and trail?

    Do any franchises other than Mortgage Choice offer a truly impartial service (as they pay brokers the same commission regardless of the lender chosen)?

    Who are the most highly rated Aggregators/Franchises?

    Who have the worst reputation?

    Who has the best software?

    Who provides the best/most leads?

    Who has the best support?

    Thanks in advance!

    Profile photo of Janine FMSJanine FMS
    Member
    @janine-fms
    Join Date: 2010
    Post Count: 1

    Hi PropertyPaul

    Commission rates are from .5% and range to the rare .8 and trail commissions can be as low as .17% and range to .28%.  The non conforming pay higher commissions than the majors however they tend to be priced less competitively, although not always the case.  However the thing to consider with these commissions and trail commissions is firstly, many lenders do not pay the trail until year 2 and these percentages are what goes to the aggregator, then depending how you are set up, after the aggregator takes their cut, our is 10%, then my company takes 25% of that 90% that is sent from the aggregator and we are left with 75%.  Here is an example

    I do a loan a homeloan of $500k for Johnny, the loan process takes a minimum of six weeks.  The loan settles after six weeks and then approximately a month after the loan has settled the upfront commission is paid to me.  Within that month the lender sends through (this is based on a 0,5 upfront commission) $2500 to my aggregator, the aggregator then sends $2250 through to my company, then deposits $1687 to my account.  Remember the timeframe is approximately 10 weeks (2 1/2 months), therefore for that period I earned $1687 on that loan. 

    Then the trail commission, which is what traditionally grown to be your base income (your stable if you like), comes through, if you are lucky and your clients have chosen a lender that pays trail in the first year.  The trail is worked out the same way and for this example I have used .2% (although many pay under this).  Therefore on a $500k loan a $1k per annum trail is paid, this is distributed monthly and therefore once the aggregator has taken their cut, my company taken it's cut I am left with approximately $56 per month.

    Therefore going into this business you need to have something behind you as the first two years are building years and what you are trying to build is that trail to at least cover monthly costs.  I love being a broker and possibly started at a really bad time, as I am coming up to two years in this industry and it has been tough, but so rewarding when you get the deals over the line for your clients!  The lenders have been very frustrating, with a can't do attitude of just putting up road blocks at every turn but there is still the business out there, but the key to this whole thing is REFERRAL PARTNERS!  If you can build good referral partnerships, you will be in a good position to make this business work for you.

    As far as aggregators go, I have only had dealings with the one I am through and I am impartial, happy enough with their software they provide but I guess I see them as a necessary evil (hey they are taking my hard earned cash :-))  But I guess they have their function.

    Love working in a situation where we all get together and brainstorm, although ultimately in my case, I am running my own business and responsible for my own pipeline and not provided with any leads.  I guess sometimes we feel there should be more company support for the cut they are taking but I love what I do and as tough as it has been I want to make my business succeed so I keep doing what I need to do to keep my business running ( including driving from one end of perth to the other 3 or 4 times a week, but my stereo and gps are my key to sanity! 

    In terms of clients and commissions, I always disclose the commissions we get paid both at the beginning of the process and at contracts, they also get to see the commissions everyone else pays (to compare) and I guess the key to remember is, give your clients all the information they need to allow them to make the right choice for themselves. 

    Anyway good luck with your endeavours.

    Cheers
    Janine

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213
    Janine FMS wrote:
    Hi PropertyPaul

     Here is an example

    I do a loan a homeloan of $500k for Johnny, the loan process takes a minimum of six weeks.  The loan settles after six weeks and then approximately a month after the loan has settled the upfront commission is paid to me.  Within that month the lender sends through (this is based on a 0,5 upfront commission) $2500 to my aggregator, the aggregator then sends $2250 through to my company, then deposits $1687 to my account.  Remember the timeframe is approximately 10 weeks (2 1/2 months), therefore for that period I earned $1687 on that loan. 

    Then the trail commission, which is what traditionally grown to be your base income (your stable if you like), comes through, if you are lucky and your clients have chosen a lender that pays trail in the first year.  The trail is worked out the same way and for this example I have used .2% (although many pay under this).  Therefore on a $500k loan a $1k per annum trail is paid, this is distributed monthly and therefore once the aggregator has taken their cut, my company taken it's cut I am left with approximately $56 per month.

    Janine

    And then in the 11th month the client sells the property or refinances with another bank and you have to give back 100% of the upfront received. Or, worse, the client has their LOC sitting there, and only used 20% of the limit and the lender demands 100% of the upfront back.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Richard TaylorRichard Taylor
    Participant
    @qlds007
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 12,024

    Or the client failed to tell you the finance you arranged on his land and construction was actually for residential development and he sells the property post construction cleans up on the sale and you loose 100% of the upfront.

    Then has the nerve to ring you and tell you he has more business for him.

    At which time you politely tell him you dont need his business thank you.

    Richard Taylor | Australia's leading private lender

    Profile photo of god_of_moneygod_of_money
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    @god_of_money
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 970

    hehehehe
    Therefore, you need a high quality and loyal customer :)

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