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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    I have been approached by a company offering to sell me solftware which enables you to profit on betting on sports matches.

    It works by chosing a sport in which there are just 2 players and then betting on both – one has to win so you will win everytime if you bet on both, but it won't work with the same bookmaker. So you need to search for another bookmaker with different odds and you place bets on each side with 2 different book makers.

    The example I was given was a tennis match – where there are no draws, so only 2 outcomes, 1 or the other will win. If you bet say $300 on one and $700 on the other, total bet is $1000. You would only bet when the combined odds of the 2 book makers are favourable. This software supposedly scans the 60 to 80 most popular bookmaker sites throughout the world and in this case it may come up with one bookmaker is europe and one in usa with one favouring player A and the other player B. you bet your $1000 and are guaranteed $1050 back no matter who wins. You can do this multiple times per day – I think 24 hrs per day.

    The cost of the software is $8800 or $11,600 for the platinum version.

    (i had written a bit more about this company, but on second thought decided not to post it for legal reasons)

    has anyone hearch of anything like this?

    ps I have to decide quick because there are only 19 licences left for Australia!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of hbbehrendorffhbbehrendorff
    Member
    @hbbehrendorff
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 294

    Yes,  I know of someone who is taking part in this.  The profits are not big but they are compounded many times.

    I think he said they have claimed to double his money in 6 months,  Is that what they told you as well ?

    Apparently there is more then one company that does this kind of thing.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    Hi H

    They told me i could make up to 5% per bet, which if is a hell of a lot if you make one bet per day.

    I have done some more research and it seems this company is changing its name a lot – or new companies are being set up all the time. Seems like a lot of people pay their $8k and then the software stops working or doesn't work at all and they cannot get their money back. I have also seen reports that some of these companies have data which is not live, but delayed by a few min which can be crucial when making a bet as by the time you lodge the bet the odds have changed again.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://propertytaxbook.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Aust wide) http://propertytaxbook.com.au/

    Profile photo of C2C2
    Participant
    @c2
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 518

    Terry,

    Becareful.

    There have been a few scams like this doing the rounds lately but there are also a few legit ones and normally a lot more $ to buy into than you mentioned. 

    I know some people who were/are heavily involved in this for a few years. 

    Pm me for more info.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    It seems they are just trying to rip people off. Arbitrage does seem to work in theory, but maybe it is harder in practice.
    – You would need to have accounts with up to 60 bookmakers throughout the world
    – you could have profits eaten by bookmaker commissions and funds transfer fees, currency conversion fees etc
    – Any spread on the bets may disappear as more people become aware of it and place bets. bookmakers change their odds
    – there may be delays in getting updated odds from the program

    The company that rang me is using websites with one name, software with another, email with another and domain with another still.

    There also appears to be another company using the same web site design – exactly.

    Both of these companies are listed on a scam monitoring website

    They have offered me a company guarantee to refund money – which is no good if the company goes down. They have then offered me a personal guarantee from their 'ceo'. I wonder if this person is real. If he is real, he may not have any assets.

    Anyway, too risky for me

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://propertytaxbook.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Aust wide) http://propertytaxbook.com.au/

    Profile photo of newbi2newbi2
    Member
    @newbi2
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 227

    In a moment of weakness some time ago, I had a look at a similar "venture". It too offered "your money back – we garentee you will come out in front" When you looked more closely the fine print on the garentee was that you HAD to bet on each recommendation that you were given, if you missed only one then you voided your guarentee. I too thought it a scam and to risky. The fact that they used horse racing as the example didnt help either I guess. I would strongly agree with the previous posts and suggest steering clear.

    You know what they say – if it seems too good to be true………….

    Mick

    Profile photo of CentralChoiceCentralChoice
    Participant
    @centralchoice
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 64

    I've heard of sports arbitrage betting as well and it's been around for a couple of years. I probably first heard about it in 2005. In theory, I suppose it is no different selling shares or forward contracts and using futures as a hedge? Anyway, I know a guy who is using it and he tells me he's making some money out of it. I don't think it is 5% per bet though.

    Remember the old saying? Gamblers only ever tell you when they win.

    I disagree with the whole proposition of having to fork out that sum of money when there are a lot of other places around, eg they can licence the program to you for $x amount per month, which will significantly reduce your capital outlay, particularly should things go awry.

    If you are that risk averse, ask them to give you a free trial if they are so sure it works, and maybe try it out for a month using "play money". I'd be wary of people who post their track record of "arbs" that they have found over the previous months, unless there is some way to verify it. I'd be keen to find out your results, but personally I prefer writing loans!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    Thanks Hany

    I think it is just a scam – this company anyway.

    It just doesn't make sense. If you could make 5% per bet, why sell the thing? imagine the compounding effect of 5% – or even 1% per day.

    Also they say they have just 5000 licences world wide – that is 5000 people potentially betting on the same sport. Book makers will soon change their odds if that many start making the same bets.

    ANd you are right, i have asked for 1 month's trial which they refuse to give. There are a heap of other programs out there much cheaper.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://propertytaxbook.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Aust wide) http://propertytaxbook.com.au/

    Profile photo of BootlaceBootlace
    Participant
    @bootlace
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 43

    Sports arbitrage betting has been around for a long time. In theory it sounds great, but there are MANY pitfalls. To list just a few…

    1. Arbing often relies on very small margins, therefore a substantial sum must be wagered before a decent amount can be returned. As you have already pointed out Terry, you need accounts with an enormous number of bookmakers to be able to snag the occasional arbing opportunity, but unless you have a virtually unlimited bankroll you are going to run into problems. What happens when you only have $100 in the account of a particular bookmaker when you need to make a $10000 bet? Sure you may have 10 times that invested in say 100 bookie accounts, but transferring funds in and out can be very time consuming. Chances are by the time you have transferred the required funds into the account, the juicy odds are long gone. Remember you aren't the only person playing this game!

    2. With the large amounts needed in order to generate even a moderate return, coupled with the volatility of sporting/racing markets, you risk losing a large amount of money simply by normal market movements. It is entirely possible that once you have placed one (or more) bets, that the odds on the other bet(s) have changed, making an arbing opportunity impossible. You have then opened yourself up to a guaranteed loss, rather than a win, or having to simply let the original bet ride, not fun!

    3. Not all bookmakers have unlimited funds at their disposal! Your 'software' may require a large bet, but if the bookmaker in question will only take say $500 on a certain event it makes it next to impossible.

    4. Bookmakers are well aware of arbitrage betting. If you are found to be a successful arbitrage punter, your account will be restricted or cancelled completely. Bookies do share information about successful punters so if you are successful for any length of time you will find the number of bookies willing to take your bets reduced enormously. This obviously majorly impacts the success of your arbing venture. A small pool of bookies to choose from = failure in this game.

    In any case there are sites out there that will provide you with ample info to exploit arbing opportunities for free, or for a negligible price. Upwards of 10k is absurd. To make any kind of return with that initial outlay you would have to place enormous sums of money to exploit the 1-5% margins you could typically expect, and as already pointed out, there are very few bookmakers that have the capital to regularly take such bets, and you can be assured that although their odds might be competitive, they certainly won't feature regularly in arbing opportunities! They didn't accumulate such a large amount of capital by being stupid….

    Finally, arbing is something best done manually, do you really want to trust software written by some unknown on the other side of the world with large amounts of your cash? One simple mistake will wipe away your entire advantage, and then some.

    Arbing is possible, but incredibly hard work and very stressful! It is absurd to think that anyone could claim that it is as simple as 'setting and forgetting' some software! If anyone is keen to give it a try, i recommend they subscribe to one of the free sites, or one with a minimal fee ($10 a month or thereabouts), with a modest bankroll (that they can afford to lose) and see just how difficult it really is. As has been said, if it really was that easy nobody would be selling their 'system'!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    Thanks Bootlace. Just what I thought – scammers just after your initial payment before they disappear.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://propertytaxbook.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Aust wide) http://propertytaxbook.com.au/

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    http://sportsarbitragescam.blogspot.com/

    The company that contacted me is named on that website. When I pointed this out to them, they claimed the website is being run by a competitor who is trying to ruin them and they are taking legal action against that person.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://propertytaxbook.com.au/
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Aust wide) http://propertytaxbook.com.au/

    Profile photo of CentralChoiceCentralChoice
    Participant
    @centralchoice
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 64

    My personal philosophy is anything that looks a bit suspicious isn' t worth investing in.

    80% is based on the numbers and analysis. 20% on gut feel. Everything needs to stack up 100% for me to push the button on it.
    There's plenty of ways to make money in this world with less risk!

    Hany

    Profile photo of wezwazwezwaz
    Participant
    @wezwaz
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 192

    To sum up, these sorts of shemes are out and out scams.

    If you part with thousands of dollars, you'll end up with a useless piece of software, which they tell you is sophisticated. What a joke! They're all the same – con you into thinking they've got a secret to making money that no-one else knows; tell you to hurry because there are only a few licenses left. Maybe even give you a guarantee that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

    Don't be sucked into their promises. You'll regret it. And I guarantee that.

    Profile photo of sj5591sj5591
    Member
    @sj5591
    Join Date: 2009
    Post Count: 1

    I would like to share my experience with sports arbitrage. I purchased a membership for $11800 from a firm based in Milton QLD called Softtech. Let me say that the system does work and that profits of up to 5% + can be made and I have made those profits. I have been trading since October 2008 and to date have a net gain of over 600 euros but I have lost 1140 euros along the way. Most of my bets are less than 300 euros. So I make up to 5 euros per trade – sometimes more sometimes less.
    However, there are a few problems that I have encountered.
    1. The package I purchased said that I would get access to 80 bookies – which is correct but then when you receive your training they advise you that they only use about 20 of those bookies.
    2. All the bookies do have limits on the size of the bet you place (generally about 250 euro) but you cannot always find out what that limit is until you go to place the bet. I trade in Euros and I have had some bookies limit my bets to as low as 4 euro. Several won't accept anything higher than 30 euro. This usually occurred after I had already placed the first bet which leaves you in a pickle.
    3. Some bookies charge a fee to withdraw your funds – but not many – mainly the german bookies.
    Some bookies will only take bets in US$.
    4.I have had several experiences where I place a bet and then later during the day they send me an email to say that the odds were wrong – they refund your money but leave you with an uncovered bet. Occasionally I have been lucky and the bet was a winner. Several times the opposite happened and I made a donation to the bookie.
    5. None of this was explained to me when I bought the program – it has all come by experience.
    I have made over 100 trades now and the system does work but at the rate I'm going it will be some time before I have paid for the program let alone make any real profits.
    6. One big hassle I am having now is that Softech promised a daily email with the trades that they were taking – I have not received one yet in the four months that I have been trading – I have emailed and telephoned and they say they cannot understand why I'm not getting the emails but nothing changes and another week goes by. I paid the $11,800 instead of $6600 thinking that it was abetter deal but that is not the case.

    The sales guys at Softtech were one the phone to me on an almost daily basis until I bought their product – now I am having trouble getting any bastard there to provide me with what I paid for.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,110

    Thanks SJ
    Interesting

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://propertytaxbook.com.au/
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    Profile photo of WJ HookerWJ Hooker
    Participant
    @wj-hooker
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 272

    TerryW,

                 When I was a young fellow I used to sit down and look at the tips and results of horse races. After lots of thinking I decided I could win. So off I went to the races and won. Then I tried again and got tied of waiting for the race to start so went home just before the last race with no win and yes you guessed it my horse won the last race at good odds. Bummer.
                
                 Then I go tired of doing all the checks etc and gave up, but, anyone can win by betting, all you need to do is decide on a winning margin eg $20 a bet, work out the odds on your horse ( that you can pick by any means eg No 1 horse or the fourth favourite or the grey horse etc ), then place your bet. If it wins you get your money.
                 If it looses you just work out the odds on your next pick to get your money back plus your $20 and place your bet, again with same result………..eventually you will win…….no questions about that.
                 But, you may need to bet big in the end just to win a small amount, especially if you are backing odds on favourites.

                So its possible to win always in the end, but, is it worth it? probably not.

    Profile photo of wezwazwezwaz
    Participant
    @wezwaz
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 192

    WJ Hooker

    Your argument is flawed. It won't work. If you believe it, then give up your day job and work your system. Why would you work if all the money you need is on tap betting on the horses? Nope. You love your work and don't want to give it up. Fine, but you still have all that money on tap to build your property and/or share portfolio.

    Anyone who reckons they win at the casino, horse racing or whatever, just tell them to give up work and do it full time. Like I said above, logic says you don't need any other income because the pool of money available is huge, and they reckon they can tap it any time they want. Absolute crap!

    If you don't believe what I'm saying, you are probably too young to know (no life experience), or a naive fool. If you still want to play it, be my guest, but know right now you won't win. And that's not being negative, it's reality. Your choice.

    Profile photo of Gazza_Mk11Gazza_Mk11
    Member
    @gazza_mk11
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 4

    Hi Terry,
                   It would seem to me that if their software system worked OK, why would they use their energy trying to market it?
    Instead they could just use it themselves and make profits.
    This is the question I asked myself when I had a software company from QLD try to "hard sell" me  Horse Racing Betting Software. My wife made the mistake when, she was cold called while I was at work, said it was OK for them to send out a glossy brochure complete with equally glossy looking models enjoying a life that I too could have by simply purchasing and employing this software, and the phone calls followed! Needless to say I declined the offer.

    Profile photo of wezwazwezwaz
    Participant
    @wezwaz
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 192

    That's right, Gazza. Logic says why would you sell a fool proof money-making system? Just use it and make all the money you want. The reasoning is usually something along the lines that they just want to share their success.

    These systems are for gamblers and should be marketed as such (if they insist on selling them). You cannot make a living out of them. Life is not like that, so wake up if you're still tempted to waste your money.

    Profile photo of C2C2
    Participant
    @c2
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 518

    wezwaz,

    During my uni studies I spent 6 months as a semi pro gambler at a casino and was able to make a nice tidy sum.  I stopped after I acquired the amount that I had set to win.  It is not an easy life and anyone who thinks spending 6-8 hours a night in a smoke filled environment (especially when you are a non smoker) is fun has a screw loose up top.  It takes a lot of hard work, concentration and stamina.

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