First tine I've seen this post…
Badger, you never replied to how much you've made in property… did you forget the question?
And if you were making money from property, you could use educational seminars as a tax deduction, not have to pay from your own pocket.
Thanks to books, seminars and mentoring, we make more in property p.a. than from either of our day jobs. Before we did the above, we only knew how to negatively gear (ie lose money and get a tax concession for it).
Happy to be a mug if that's the case.
quickchick
SeekOptions,
you've posted your last post above twice within 40 minutes in this thread, without any context or flow to the thread and you've also cross posted the same content under the Seminar – Mark Rolton thread. It's getting a tad annoying now.
What is your intent?
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quickchick wrote:First tine I've seen this post…Badger, you never replied to how much you've made in property… did you forget the question? And if you were making money from property, you could use educational seminars as a tax deduction, not have to pay from your own pocket. Thanks to books, seminars and mentoring, we make more in property p.a. than from either of our day jobs. Before we did the above, we only knew how to negatively gear (ie lose money and get a tax concession for it). Happy to be a mug if that's the case. quickchick
You sound a touch confused here – on the one hand you say spending money to take advantage of tax concessions is a freebie, but on the other it results in a loss????Not sure anyone in this post has asked me how much money I have made, but I assume you are referring to the question of how many IPs I have, to which I am still waiting to find out why it is relevant. I’m sure there is a whole bunch of people out there with far many more IPs than me, but I’d bet there’s a lot of those people out there up to their pits wishing they had fewer right now.
I notice, Michael, in your quote you say “boldness has genius, power and magic in it”, but in many cases it’s just dumb luck. The thing that separates those that make it and those that do not is often nothing more than luck. Too often we herald average people for being geniuses, but the truth is they were nothing more than in the right place at the right time and what we are seeing now is a whole bunch of last weeks’ “gurus” looking pretty bloody average right now. Of course in many cases the “gurus” are still laughing, it’s just the mugs that they fleeced that are crapping themselves.
Hey badger,
Alani asked you how much property you own on July 17th's post.
You then engaged in some banter on measuring sizes as though it was irrelevant how much property you own.
I think, considering your strong statement calling many of us 'mugs', you should be prepared to declare your own independent successes. Maybe you have done very well with multiple good investments, and picked all your knowledge up alone.
I am also interested in what your investment strategy is… ie buy and hold, short term or long term, negatively or positively geared. Or do you improve your properites, and what would be your knowledge base eg maybe trade/handyman background. (Please note: I am not knocking these very useful skills.)
Perhaps you would not benefit from the literal wealth of knowledge I have gained at seminars and the like, because you already know it all.
But for those of us "mugs" who are still doing well in our investments in economic downturns, we are still very happy with the money we spent on our education!
Many skills will cost money to obtain, including textbooks and lectures. The financial rewards of the study speak for themselves. It can cost much more to make a single mistake in property investing, than to go to a seminar!Very keen to hear of your self-learnt success!
quickchick
Badger,
I wonder if you went to school and if you did, what for? If you have kids do you send them to school and if so, what for? To do a trade or become a professional, education is always part of the process. If all we need do is count on dumb luck we may as well take a loan of a couple of hundered thousand dollars and buy lotto tickets or go to the Casino because we're counting on luck!
Let me state clearly, I made some money with property using just luck when the market was bouyant and prices were increasing by the day but in more recent times it has been the education that I've invested in that has served me to make some good dollars. What would you call a property that was positive cashflow for the 18 months we had it and then made us a capital gain of $180K? It certainly wasn't a dud which was losing us money and this was only done in the last 2.5 years, a time when much of the property market was not doing very well at all.
The strategies we use are just some of the strategies we've learned at seminars that have educated "mugs" like me and have cost us almost nothing compared to the $ we've made from the deals we've had. Yea, I'm sure there are many who've been to seminars and have done nothing but I believe this has more to do with many people being risk adverse rather than not getting anything descent for their $'s.
By the way, I'm with Quickchic and Alani and would still love to hear your story unless of course you've not really done anything and you're just into knocking people who've done something. Ah, tall poppy syndrome, the great Australian pass time!
Good luck Badger, it sounds like you're going to need it, in the meantime, I have more research to do due to the many great deals around that I can see because the education I've had has helped open my eyes!
I have recently changed my opinion on the topic of seminars after meeting people who have been put on the property path after doing some seminars. They never would have found success in property investing so for them it was great.
Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
Email Me | Phone Me"I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller
Badger,
You don't need to tell them anything. You are entitled to a view. But don't take what anyone says to heart, we all sometimes make mistakes or post something that is not correct, and get advised of the correct answer etc.
Your post has a good point and other have their point and leave it at that.InvestorMick wrote:Badger,I wonder if you went to school and if you did, what for? If you have kids do you send them to school and if so, what for? To do a trade or become a professional, education is always part of the process.
I’m all for education, but I’d home-school if the only alternative was a school aimed at special needs kids who have difficulty figuring out 1 + 1, delivered by teachers who will only tell you their special secret if you coughed up $$$, only to find out the special secret is nothing anyone of average intelligence and a bit of digging about couldn’t figure out for themselves. That said, many of these seminars are aimed at the unsophisticated investor, which really is another way of saying mug!
InvestorMick wrote:If all we need do is count on dumb luck we may as well take a loan of a couple of hundered thousand dollars and buy lotto tickets or go to the Casino because we're counting on luck!
Mmmm, I’m thinking perhaps the poor buggers tied up in Storm, for example, would have stood a better chance at the casino.
InvestorMick wrote:By the way, I'm with Quickchic and Alani and would still love to hear your story unless of course you've not really done anything and you're just into knocking people who've done something. Ah, tall poppy syndrome, the great Australian pass time!
Who’s knocking successful investing? I’m knocking low-brow seminars.
WJ Hooker wrote:Badger,You don't need to tell them anything. You are entitled to a view. But don't take what anyone says to heart, we all sometimes make mistakes or post something that is not correct, and get advised of the correct answer etc. Your post has a good point and other have their point and leave it at that.
OK, let’s change the title of this forum from Opinionate to “ Say your bit then leave it at that”.
Like the dig re the incorrect answer, but the answer to the question depends on your perspective – for example the right answer to the question “how can I lean about property investing if I’m a bit thick” is “here, have $5,000 Mr. Spruiker “, but the right answer if you have half a brain is “I’ll keep my five grand and buy a couple of books for a hundred bucks, thank you very much!”.
So what strategy do you use? How's it going? Share with the forum your knowledge, for free!
By the way, I'm not into seminars that are just there to sell their properties, just ones which are imparting knowledge on investing, and leaving the buying to us.
You're knocking low-brow seminars? You started this forum bagging them all!
And still no detail of your own investing….
quickchick
quickchick wrote:So what strategy do you use? How's it going? Share with the forum your knowledge, for free!
By the way, I'm not into seminars that are just there to sell their properties, just ones which are imparting knowledge on investing, and leaving the buying to us.
You're knocking low-brow seminars? You started this forum bagging them all!
And still no detail of your own investing….
quickchick
I'm suggesting very few would not be low-brow. Re my strategy, it's called the wily, canny, flexible and above all, not going to seminars strategy. BTW, it works well.
Actually I lie I did go to a seminar once, but it was by mistake. I thought I was going to see a play at the theatre about this guy who knew some gullible people and thought of a really easy way to make himself a hundred grand in one evening for very little work and without having to know any more than what he read in a book. I fell asleep as I've heard the plot before, but there were a lot of people who had not read the book and thought it's easier to see the play than it is to have to bother to read the book.
Interesting Badger, last time I'll bother on this topic as it is meaningless. Keep knocking and we'll just keep on successfully investing and making the $'s.
The saying is certainly true, "ignorance is bliss!"To any unsuspecting readers of the thread, do yourself a favour and get educated if you want to succeed purposefully rather than depend on luck.
Happy and successful investing.
Badgers,
Sorry you interpreted my response as an insult, maybe I didn't put it correctly.
What I meant to say was – your post was a good one and I agree with it to a point, most investment seminars are not for the experienced investor. But some that are very specific probably have some good content and of help to many, probably the getting together with others is the most important thing of the seminar?
But when I said – sometimes we get it wrong.. I was referring to myself answering a post not your post is wrong….sorry I messed up on that.There is one truth in some of the negative post, and that is, property seminars, just like shares investing seminars are useful to that person that is ready to get in gear. A waste of time and money for the one that is not ready.
That does not make him stupid or incompetent. My wife is a doctor and a very successful at that, yet I couldn't take her to a property seminar or any other investment seminar not even by mistake.So those who like some of the poster above have succeeded after attending seminars and mentoring, don't make the mistake of believeing you are successful because you attended such seminar. How many did with you and are yet to buy their first investment?
Seminars have value, some more than others. Some are a con, and a few have heaps of value, yet all of that is irrelevant. A person that is ready and willing will take value home even from a con seminar. The one that is not ready can go to 10 of the best seminars in the world and still think he has wasted his money….and he would not be wrong he did waste his money.
Yet not everyone does.Paying for the seminars, workshops, homestudy, mentoring, data access and so on are like gym memberships – you get out what you put in. After reading the posts about Massland I've decided not to enrol in their teaching but I just finished talking to a contact with a $3m development deal who, after attending Mark's seminar, went back and tweaked his existing option arrangement and added 3 extra units and will get an extra $350K profit.
I call this the 'nugget' – the piece of gold info that unlocks a whole new approach or gives you the solution to a problem. You can find the 'nuggets' in low-cost books, at free seminars or even expensive seminars. They come from talking to agents, builders and your humble accountant. But like gold, you have to be prospecting for them and be ready to accept that they can turn up almost anywhere, as long as you keep looking.Badgers_R_Us wrote:I think that people who attend property seminars and the like are mugs. There is nothing that these seminars can tell you that a couple of books, a bit of research and some basic common sense can't tell you.I think that if you have paid go on or are considering a property seminar then by default you should not be investing, as you clearly have no idea. If you had any idea you'd know that you should steer well clear.
I agree with this. If you want to learn about property investing, do you own research, read books, and find things out for yourself. That’s the best way to learn.
A standard presentation by a presenter provides a generic format and doesn’t tell you information specific to your own circumstances. Furthermore, the main driver for conducting these “seminars” is for the presenter to make money so alot of the facts are going to be driven from this.
Educated beyond his intelligence …………
I can't help but notice there are a lot of people who believe only a fool would attend a property seminar, and these same people seem to know a lot about what is talked about in a seminar. I have never been to one, so I don't know if they are all useless. How can you tell if you've never been either? I guess you're a lot smarter than me.
If 2 people read the same book they will not get the same message from it …
Some seminars seem expensive and I for one believe there should be a cutoff point to the cost like say $4,000.00
The truth is that putting on these shows are very expensive, from telemarketing, sales material, hiring the venue and so much more. Generally the costs is 1/3 1/3 1/3 … 1/3 to get people there … 1/3 for commissions and overheads and 1/3 for profit.
At the end of the day if a participant focuses exactly on what they want to get out of it and they do then the money is nothing in the scheme of things. Real estate is not a cheap sport to play and it is very diversified.
I think the main thing is that the presenters are both qualified and are walkers … that is they can prove that what they teach they are doing themselves.
Philip Sigglekow … some free stuff here … http://www.realestateedu.com.au
I agree, there are heaps of books out there that will give you alot more than a seminar and for only $29 (or thereabouts) … most seminars are potentially trying to sell you off the plan properties so its difficult to know if the advise you get is unbiased.
Cheers Steve
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