Thanks for sharing the info with us…..AdministratorParticipant@administratorJoin Date: 2006Post Count: 131
We sympathise with what you're saying but:
- It's often difficult to determine if a member is making false or legitimate positive claims about a company so it wouldn't be right to remove their post without good reason. If it is fairly obvious that the claims are false (WoodysGirl's post had piqued my interest) then we will remove it.
- Libellous content possibly puts both the poster and PropertyInvesting.com in danger of legal action. Even if a statement is true, having no supporting evidence still puts the poster at risk.
- If members are to criticise business practices then they should do so more tactfully. We will not remove content unless it could be construed as libel.
- We try to keep the forums clean of blatant advertising. If members like yourself see posts that fit the description then please report it using the report abuse link that can be found on every post. Even if you're unsure.
- We don't mind members advertising a business or service in their signature, or if it's relevant to their post. Just as long as the post is relevant to the forum thread. This can be a grey area however…
We appreciate help and understanding from the PropertyInvesting.com community with these matters. Please let me know if you have any questions.LinarMember@linarJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 567
I kind of see what you are saying. I am a lawyer myself. It just seems like that in the last six months or so, anything goes on this forum. You can advertise whatever you want; you can push whatever barrow you want; you can abuse whatever forumite you want. The forum never used to be like this. To quote Regurgitator "I like your old stuff better than your new stuff".
I have been a member of this site for about four years now and your "report abuse link" is the first time I have ever heard of it. Perhaps a "stickit" at the top of each section reminding forumites of their ability to have the increasingly blatant advertising removed immediately should be put up.
At the moment your selective censorship looks, to be quite honest, unprofessional.
Said with the best intentions
Wel, it is clearly that 'moderator' of this website has DIRECT or INDIRECT interest/link wit the Park Trent Group.
They are just too afraid to disclose their interest…..
"…..PropertyInvesting.com in danger of legal action."… Well I can guarantee you that I haven't heard any Supreme court case that the blog is being sued… unless some one can point it to me….
Moderator… the word 'defamation'… has to be carefully used and intrepreted…AdministratorParticipant@administratorJoin Date: 2006Post Count: 131Linar wrote:I have been a member of this site for about four years now and your "report abuse link" is the first time I have ever heard of it. Perhaps a "stickit" at the top of each section reminding forumites of their ability to have the increasingly blatant advertising removed immediately should be put up.
Thanks a lot for the feedback Linar. First thing Monday we'll make an effort to have the "report abuse" feature more prominently displayed in the forum. Letting as many members know about it as possible is extremely valuable to all of us. We need to be notified of defamatory content and inappropriate content before we can take action.
We were actually directly contacted by representatives of Park Trent in regards to those posts. We agree that defamation is a tricky issue, as it has to be interpreted and where the burden of proof lies is not always clear. We did not believe that the statements were made carefully enough to warrant defending from potential legal action. A note was left behind on each post so that members would know what happened. I think if there truly was an interest being expressed in this company over our forum members, then the posts would be completely removed instead.
Whether a defamation case would hold up in court or not is a non-issue. The content was also deemed not constructive enough, and lacked evidence to back it's claims. We highly regard member opinion, but we also sympathise with businesses and their reputations. We know too little about Park Trent to make a judgment call.
In most cases the same message can be conveyed by simply wording a post more carefully, and by steering clear of offensive remarks.
Woodys girl you've won me!
Just upholding what a great job ParkTrent are doing, I would like to mention that we have just been advised by our bank that the 2nd investment property purchased through Parktrent which is due for completion mid November is a high risk development and that mortgage insurance will now need to be taken out if we want to go through with this sale (only another $14,000. ) This definitely upholds your belief "that they were able to help us in the difficult task of selecting an investment property "
However, I am sure that if we went through Parktrents EasyPlan finacial professionals and brokers for a second time that it would have been approved unfortunately we may have been conned once but not that silly.
WG the professional sales representative at PTPG also mentioned that we could sell prior to completion when we placed the $23,000 deposit down for this property and some how forgot to mention the clause in the contract stating that we were unable to sell prior to the completion, just another clause not noted by our solicitors. Which WG upholds your other statement "we have been able to get the support we needed every step of the way" It is also amazing that two legal services and finacial service that we have dealt with have been hand selected by ParkTrent to provide us with helpful advice? None of which I have seen, it has taken numerous non returned phone calls and letters to even find out if this property could have been sold prior to development.
I am glad that the moderator has taken on the sound advice from many and allowed some honest feedback to remain as I too was starting to believe that may have their hands in this pie too.
To answer God O Monies question yes they have been reported to the QLD and NSW Department of Fair-Trading but they seem to sneak under the radar each time. I even had an ex property manager call me personally on my phone and provide information in regards to the questionable behaviour of this company figure that out?
My next question is can someone provide me with some honest advice? We are now in the situation where we will not be able to proceed with this fantastic investment property as stated by WG? and lose our deposit of $23,000 as no reputable bank will give us the financial support, as for some reason I do not wish to use the financial services and advice of this company again.
So I ask can I claim this as a tax loss for next year?
Thanks for your honest comment dparkes..
I think company like Park Trent or IF etc.. will have some limit life span. Their mortgage backing finances are virtually near collapse or R.I.P. There is not such a cheap credit any more… Obviously banks will only lend 70-80% and LMI will also consider dodgy development.. Dust will settle in the next 1-2 years…. Long Life Investment property…
'Property value will double every 7 years'…just a memories in the past.
With Department of Trading, I don't think they bother as they are toothless and useless…..
Like DParkes' post on the 1st November we too have had some unsavouring dealings with this company. We signed a contract on a studio apartment (student accomodation) and subsequently have discovered that banks don't usually lend on property on propertys below 50 square meters in area (our apartment is 25 squares). This information was not given to us a the time despite it not being a new policy with financial institutions. As a result our efforts to secure finance as well as several options explored by Easyplan finance (linked to Park Trent) have been unsuccessfull, although they tell us they are still exploring options. With settlement due this month we are extremely concerned (especially when we read the consequences of breaking contract). Enquiries to their customer service department have been varied between helpful and polite and very, very rude and unhelpful (the rude and unhelpful varieties have been more recent), they just don't seem to understand that we are worried about loosing everything. We definately won't be dealing with this company ever again, and don't recommend that anyone else does either. If any members of this site are interested in discussing experiences we are open to talking privately, please let us know via this forum.
it sounds as though you are settling on maybe the same studio apartment in Carlton that we are? We have had the same issues and have been trying to decide what to do for the past 6 months with no help from Easyplan it seems that they have been quite happy prolonging the process and yes we have had the run around since signing the dotted line similar to your self we have been hung up on etc from staff members If you would like to contact me in regard to this further please email me on [email protected]
another unsatisfied customer
Thanks for your reply. We have tried to email you however the email has been returned due to "permanent fatal errors" apparently the host server is not known??? Not sure what that means – can you check the email address you typed? Otherwise you are welcome to email us – [email protected]quickchickMember@quickchickJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 168
In my opinion, Park Trent (or any other similar group) have 2 products to market.
1. The properties they want to sell.
2. Investment education.
Please note the order above!
If you want to buy an investment property, you can either buy one yourself, or buy one through a group which wants to sell you its merchandise. They set the buy price. They make a commission on your purchase. They make a commission on your rental.
Or buy yourself, independently (check for the going prices in the area, first! Both sale, and rental, to get a reasonable return.)
If you are unsure of what to buy and where, I recommend you pay for some education form someone who does NOT have a ready-made product to sell. That way, you buy a property that does not already have a "retail mark-up".
Your choice.LinarMember@linarJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 567
Dparkes and Coriander
Why weren't your contracts subject to finance?
Our contract (which we only obtained a copy of when we specifically asked the solicitor) has a finance clause however it has been crossed out. I will have to check it again to see if we initialled this change, however I will not be suprised to find that we did initial it – alot of papers were put before us on that day and we signed alot of things that we didn't have time to fully absorb. If I had my time again I would walk away from that meeting without signing a thing – hind sight is a lovely isn't it?
Hi Linar and Coriander
I have also had a look at our contract and the finance component has also been crossed out and I do not believe we signed or initialled this prior? I believe the contract I have here is the contract that will be signed when we settle this month?
I am also concerned that the solicitors that we are currently dealing with (who were selected by Parktrent )have not been acting in our best interest along the way and we have had many unreturned phone calls in regard to the contract.
Cheerselaine emMember@elaine-emJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 1
I am a victim of Silverwater Resort too. Do you know if anything is being done about it or if anything can be done? Would appreciate your comments. My financial reserves are running out.
ElaineBlue1 wrote:We bought two properties through ParkTrent and neither have been stunning successes. In particular, the latest purchase, of an apartment in Silverwater Resort, VIC, that ParkTrent placed us onto – and they gained much commission from – has failed dismally. The guaranteed rental of over 6% is now less than 2% and falling !! ParkTrent have 'given up' in trying to get the additional rental from the resort management and no concern for the many investors who are now severly out of pocket on a monthly basis.
Overall, don't put all of your eggs in one basket – our DHA property has done much better than ParkTrent and no worries, wished we had bought another DHA property rather than listening to Ron Cross and his Park Trent company staff.
You need to make your own mind up, but I would advise to leave ParkTrent well alone.
Happy to discuss above with the moderator if these truthful comments are 'too risky' !!ColBParticipant@colbJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 5
Beware, we have been very badly stung. Park Trent sold us (under high pressure) an overpriced property in Qld. Many problems with contracts, finance etc and when we notified Ron Cross he denied any responsibility, blaming banks, contractors whoever, but never his own or his own org's fault. Check out two tier marketing and then Google Ron Cross. Easier, cheaper and far less trouble to do it on your own.ColBParticipant@colbJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 5
While purporting to be the epitome of professionism and industry knowledge wisdom, ParkTrent and EasyPlan, in our case, accepted no responsibility for the many mistakes from the bank/solicitors etc but actually charged us over $4000 for setting up the loan (even though I've since been advised that they were also paid commission by the bank). We don't believe this was ethical and were not aware of even signing documents to authorise this payment to them. We will be taking this matter further.
The bank in question certainly did not have the best and cheapest rates, even making us change our home insurer to suit one to their preference. EasyPlan also suggested we borrow extra to pay off existing loans from other properties. This was also bad advice as we later discovered the only benefit was to EP who gained extra commission for having these loans transferred. In effect it also limited our borrowings on other properties and so was detrimental advice. The loan was also set up incorrectly as all the funds were released in one go and we were immediately up for interest payments with no return for a house not yet built. When I advised both sets of solicitors (theirs and supposedly ours) of this mistake, their solicitor returned most of the money to the bank who then issued new contracts (initially with new fees etc). Some of the money however was sent to our solicitor who didn’t know what to do with it and left it sitting on the floor of her office for a month, until I enquired where the money was. When this matter was eventually resolved, ParkTrent/EasyPlan took credit for finding the money; for advising the bank of the mistake and for negotiating that no additional fees were to be paid. I in fact did all this. This is only a small part of the 'NIghtmare' that we’ve been subjected to and I’m happy to provide greater detail if anyone is interested. I also wonder why so many people apparently having a problem with ParkTrent and EasyPlan are accepting being silenced? Are we scared to let others know what is happening out there? My partner and I recently went to the ParkTrent Gala Dinner and when the MC introduced “the man of the moment – Ron Cross” hardly anyone applauded. It was then that I realised that we were not alone in our feelings of disapproval for this man and his organisation.Steve McKnightKeymaster@stevemcknightJoin Date: 2001Post Count: 1,763
The forums at PropertyInvesting.com enjoy a good search ranking with Google.
Therefore, companies where their name or reputation is questioned will seek to protect that and engage their lawyers to threaten to take legal action unless posts are removed.
We are in a difficult position, as we want to be an information source for the community, but we are not in a position to fund multiple legal challenges.
Indeed, in the past we have been asked for the names and details of posters so that they could be sued for defamation.
Needless to say, without a court order compelling us to do so, we have refused as we go to great lengths to protect privacy.
With this in mind, we simply request that people who make posts stick to the facts and keep as much emotion and opinion out as possible. A good example are several posts above that talk about the properties purchased and the financial outcomes since, or the procedures that happened at meetings.
In terms of moderation, what good would it have been for the entire post to have been removed and then all the comments lost? Perhaps it is inexact to edit some, but that is still better than removing the lot.
If you think the moderation needs improving, then stick your hand up and help. It will be gratefully received.
Lastly, PropertyInvesting.com has no relationship – direct, indirect, or otherwise, with Park Trent Properties, except to say we were contacted by lawyers representing the company to have posts removed as, in their opinion, they contained content that was defamatory to their client.
Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
Success comes from doing things differently
for your honesty I too have been rubbing my head as to how this company has got away with what I feel could be somewhat questionable ethical behaviour? I also wondered if others are just scared. I have tried many avenues such as ACCC, Office of Fair Trading both QLD,NSW and the Australian Securities Commission and all seem to pass the buck onto each other and somehow Parktrent slips under the radar and avoids any review. It is only now that I have started commenting on this forum that I realise I am not the only one in this situation.
We left a fixed interest rate loan and comfortable mortgage to go with EasyPlan who gave the impression that it was in our best interest which then hit us up with exuberant fees and costs as well as poor customer service along the way.
Please understand It is not that we were ill prepared we had other investors look at the figures provided by EasyPlan and Parktrent which in the end proved to be false and misleading? My wife is also an accountant so figure that out? Unfortunately trusting this company was our downfall here and we too soon had a loan for a house that had not even been built yet? I cannot even remember them showing me and signing the $30,000 commission document made from these sales ( they are good) my property accountant nearly fell over.
I think the more unhappy customers that make a complaint to ACCC and the office of fair trading that they may finally take action
My gripe now is the unethical behaviour of this company praying on other unwary investor s and hopefully this forum has helped out. As you are aware from my previous comments that we stupidly invested in two properties with Parktrent and are at risk of-loosing a $23,000 deposit paid to Parktrent due to Easy-plans poor financial advice and questionable behaviour and we cannot on-sell due to a clause that has been written in the contract. It is not that we do not have the equity it is that they have sold us a high risk development? We boycotted the Gala dinner to at least get $200 bucks back from my investment. Feel free to email me on the following email and discuss further [email protected]
I don't ParkTrent will challenge the posting here… because they themselve are too scared to get audited by ACCC or Department of fair trading…
They use the word ' lawyer' for defamation…
The most important.. what is the definition of defamation…. it will be too complicated for them… they can threatened to sue… but toothless.