Something of interest, I reposted In the Game's comments over at 21st century academy who 'promote' mark and massland, and i've been banned from the forum and told i've defamed etc etc.. one would begin to question such a strong reaction from seminar providers and why they'd stifle an opinion being offered and a suggestion people do due dilligence into something like this…..
Hmm.. again I leave it for people to make up their own minds..just thought I'd share.
we may be in the 21st Century, however most Academic to our investing are our own errors, investigations,etc., the experience of others and of course a little knowledge of history. A little bit of Latin also never went astray………Caveat Emptor. Now that you are unwelcome at the Academy of the 21 st C, you'll have more time to post here.
Again thanks for sharing Matt.
Thanks Michael, I was quite disappointed, however in hindsight I am happy NOT to be involved with either groups. Being master of my own destiny far better suits my world view than being tied to .. well…. my point I feel is already made.
As they say, every dog his its day…aretmParticipant@aretmJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 9MrFairGo wrote:Rick's course worked for me. Bought the home study course a few months ago – have now done a few Lease Options. snip….
thanks Mr fair go and others. I got off the phone today spoke at length with one of the guys that works there. Threw some interesting questions that have been posted in this thread and probably the first time I've ever had a affiliate/ employee call it what you will sit and answer the questions completely and not baulk at any of them. Anyway I'm getting a few addresses sent to go and check out and do some further looking into locally here in Melbourne. Also Ill add this NO HARD SELL which was another interesting thing i found. Usually in this industry of seminars they are hard hitting refuse to answer questions or give some half baked crap and then want your credit card details. In fact not even a mention of are you interested.
Thanks for posting some interesting things they helped a great deal when talking today.
just make sure you can verify what the guy told you.. independently..thats a lesson I learnt.. they can tell you anything they want, but you need independent proof of what they're saying.. I may be a bit jaded but i too had lots of people who worked there tell me all sorts of things, ultimately none of which were true, or at very best they were highy exaggerated.hengjin.liMember@hengjin.liJoin Date: 2007Post Count: 12Paulyp wrote:Hi,
with all due respect, I don't understand the mindset of some people, many of us go and get a car loan for $30000, personal loans for plasma t.v's or other things that depreciate in value but when it comes to parting with $5k for the knowledge that a course such as Massland's or any other for that matter can give a person, sorry but this boggles me. If anyone knows of any books out there on property options PLEASE let me know. Options are a specialized area where there aren't many decent books that gives Australians the A-Z in this field. Therefore to excel in this particular field you need to put in the hard yards both financially and mentally, but in the end it will be worth it. Are we expecting pay $5k just sit back, take a holiday and wait for the cash to roll in? With this mindset most of us will be in the rat race the rest of our lives!
Anyway thats my 2c worth.
hi, Paulyp. I cannot agree more on your saying. from an entrepreneur's point of view. 5k is not gonna make much difference in some one's whole life. but acquiring some advanced techniques by financial education may make a big difference.
There is not much material available in the market for property option. The book I have is the American Author Thomas Lucier's How to Make Money With Real Estate Options.
If you want, I can send you a soft copy.
And if I may comment on the statements by Pauly P, on one hand I agree education costs if you can get benefit out of it are probably ok to deal with, however when the people selling the education are misleading you about the potential, the business they're in and their standing in the community, that's when I have a BIG problem with giving them money. That level of deception, misleading conduct etc boils my blood and I hate to see people who through no fault of their own, don't have enough knowledge to know when what they're being told is unrealistic and grossly exaggerated, who then place all their hopes and dreams on these things. People need to learn to question more deeply, to expect and deman proof of the claims being made by these seminar spruikers and 'educators'. I think people sadly are taking far too much at face value, believing anyone who 'appears' sincere, and who will sell them a dream with no real substance..
end of rant…
I would also be keen for a copy of the US Real Estate Options book. I have sent you a PM
ThanksStrata1Member@strata1Join Date: 2008Post Count: 1
As you say, there is not much material available in the market for property options. I would be keen for you to send me a copy of the US Real Estate Options book, it would be most appreciated.
Strata1CorporateMonkeyParticipant@corporatemonkeyJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 12wangsterMember@wangsterJoin Date: 2005Post Count: 1
Well, I have read with interest all the valid comments regarding options, in particular, Mark Rolton and Rick Ottons.
Here is my view.
We did the 21st C seminar, (some great content, shame it has become a big con sales department), and I was very interested in 2 people. Mentioned above. I thought I would investigate by asking questions of them, before putting pen to credit card paper. Thankfully I did.
Within 2 seconds of talking to Rick, my wife, (women are a much better judge of character than men – proven in business), said, this guy can not be trusted! Was she right. I was brushed off very quickly by Rick, before even getting to fully ask my first question. I put it down to the mass of people who had already asked their questions. I signed up!!!! (Mistake number 1).
2 months later, with the course date approaching, I had heard nothing. I started asking questions and responses were not happening. Finaly, I was told that there was a problem with my credit card, (probably good luck the payment had not gone through- but there was no valid reason why), and that the offer tha was made by Rick at the presentation, was no longer available and the 2 for 1 offer had now gone up $1500.00 from the $2600, (I think it was), that we paid. Guess my response????? Go and put your course where it deserves to be and watch out if you even try to debit my card with any sort of fee.
Thus, one interest down and one left!
I did not get to talk to Mark, but my wife was confident that this presentation was a lot more trustworthy and was worth a look. (That just killed the character judging theory!)
I signed up and then the problems started. They quickly took my money and gave me nothing. It took weeks to get the home study pack and then to get some answers on attending a course date – well. There was a course in a few weeks time and I wanted to attend. The staff could not tell me where or what time, only that it was on the Gold Coast. I said I needed to book flights and accommodation, but still no answers. I finally got an attendance welcome email, 3 days before the event – Guess my answer.
There was another course 2 months later and once again, the response was slow, but I at least had 3 weeks notice.
The course was good – I did learn a few good concepts, but wow, is Mark a great salesman. The people rushing to sign up for $30k course was embarrassing. It proved how good a sales man Mark really is. Mark was adamant that you could not do well without having RP Data, UBD and Google Earth Pro. A must have.! Well I signed up – (mistake number 2). You needed to sign up today because the offer was not valid from tomorrow and the log in's would be processed the following week so you can all get started.
3 weeks later, I had heard nothing and had to remind them of this promise. The RP Data password arrived – fantastic. Living in Melbourne, Mark had stipluated, start in your suburb and work out from there. Work on the areas you know and when you find one that works, work that radius from the CBD around your city. Fantastic. I got started only to find that Massland's access to RP Data only covers 7% of metropolitan Melbourne! How can you apply Mark's so called great system to only 7%? I asked the question, only to be told by one of the clearly incompetent support staff that these ae the only areas Mark belives are viable in Melbourne. Do they think I am stupid? How is Melbourne different to Brisbane and Sydney where they have had so much success. Dig a bit more. O'hh, it costs more for them to have greater RP Data coverage in Melbourne, so sorry Melbournians. You are not worth it!
I have since asked for my subscription to be stopped ( I have still not received Google Earth), and I may lodge a complaint to ASIC and Fair Trading. My requestes have been received by Massland, but I get no responses. I have found seveal other "students" who have had similar problems, so you can make up your own mind.
One last thing. I spoke with one person who tried to take a personal cheque to Rick's registered business adreess. It was a set of post office boxs and when he called them, they were insistant that he sould just post it. He ripped it up and cancelled his course and later found out that another course he paid for (another provider) could not be prosecuted, since the business was registered in Vanuatu. MMMMMMM
Sorry for the long posting, but do your homework. As one person said, save time by trying to learn from other peoples mistakes. Mark has some very good information, but do not get conned. There maybe a better way, we just have to find it and that will take time. A lot of time.
Great post. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
People do your research on all courses that you may be interested in and on their teachers/founders.
Not all courses are like this, however……………….caveat emptor!WommaMember@wommaJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 2
Hey Wangster, why don't you pass on Marks so called good information on this forum so that curiosity does not entice people into attending this course.quickchickMember@quickchickJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 168
I did a one day course a year or more ago with Mark Rolton.
it was very inspiring and exciting, but then we found we needed to join RPData (no provision for group joining at this stage). Cost when we investigated, would be about $600 per month. Ouch!
Some of the concepts were certainly worthwhile, but we decided that to put so much money (RPData) and time into it, JV with them (too difficult to do ourselves after one day's info), was not for us.
I'm not averse to paying for education, but not sure when (if) this info will benefit our investing….
Quickchick.Dr. RobertMember@dr.-robertJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 2
I've done Mark's course back in July of this year. I thought it was a great course and enjoyed it thoroughly. This man is teaching you what he's learnt in a 7 year period of making mistakes and has turned it into a system for you to learn in 3 days for $5,000.
They say 'time is money'. What better way to learn from Mark's mistakes and shortcut the process. Sure a university degree in civil engineering may give you the theory to understand the process but you wouldn't be anywhere near what a developer knows.
Mark in an entrepeneur and it takes an entrepeneurial mindset to be able to take what Mark has given and use it.
I agree I am working hard to research the town plan and at analysing deals though it is time well spent. But what business is easy? At least the rewards in this industry are at a proportion to the work put in.
If you are focused and know where you are going it doen't matter how you get there you will get there anyway, whether you do Mark's course or not. At the end of the day it's a matter of how big you think.AzaliaParticipant@azaliaJoin Date: 2008Post Count: 56
It is my understanding that Mark Rolton's seminars educate people how to find sites and option them, then he buys them and develops them. Is that correct?
Do the students put these options in their own name or in Marks?I have not done Marks course, but I have a friend in Victoria who has. I am familiar with options and I just found out this weekend that when you option a property in WA and/or Victoria, you are liable to pay the stamp duty for the purchase price of that property whether you go ahead with the option or not! I was pretty annoyed to find this out since my strategy utilises options. There are ways around this but it puts you at risk. Can anyone shed light on this for me?quickchickMember@quickchickJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 168
There is the opportunity to do it alone, or joint venture with them on an agreed basis, ie your time plus their expertise. Could start as joint ventue then when confidence builds, go it alone. I'd think that using their legal people would have to be an advantage, as not many solicitors would know their way around property options. (Would have to be in joint names, I'd suppose.
I do not recall him developing, I'm pretty sure that he is only in the options side, and on-sells.
Their concept is buying an option, value-add by having a DA done, then selling pre-settlement. ie option-buying entity pays the DA cost. So whether you also pay stamp duty (not sure of this myself) you have made a substantial investment even if you don't take up the option to buy.
If I was to pursue the options idea, (in your shoes) I certainly would do his course, and JV at least to start……
Leverage from his experience! (I agree with Dr Robert on this.)
Are you JV'ing with Mark's group, Dr Robert? Love to hear when you've completed first option how it went!
Dr Robert and others I'd suggest you go back to the first page of this thread and read carefully the experiences of people who have already been through all the JV experience with mark and in one case (in the game's post) actually worked FOR Mark and his company for nearly 2 years. if you still want to get involved in any way shape or form with him after that then …. well i won't say..but i've personally spoken to 4 of Mark's former staff members, nearly every company he says he has relationships with or funding from, and many in the development and marketing industry, and let's just say that there was a common thread coming from them all.
The theory they teach is get the option, add a DA, onsell. Simple, effective and has been done for decades by developers around the world. However, big problems arise when:
a) you have no money to spend on a DA and no one in your 'coaching staff' has every closed a deal themselves (so in my mind how are they supposed to coach you how to do it?)
b) no one in the industry will deal with you based on what they've seen heard and learnt over the last 7 years
c) the JV agreement doesn't force anyone to pay you, the one who does all the work, a single cent.
d) there are few if any financiers who will work with you despite what you say in public
I'd go back over the course and remember all the names of companies mentioned and how 'close' a relationship they apparently have. Ring them yourself, see what they say. What harm in doing your own due dilligence. Dig deeper than what you're told in an NLP laden marketing festival. Believe me it'll be worth your while legally and from a 'wake up call' perspective. I can only speak from my personal experiences, and the collective experiences of those I've spoken to, which over the 2 years since I did the course, has been considerable.
simple question for them: Prove all the claims you make. Prove them via an independent source of verification. Prove you're company is worth what you say, has projects valued at what you say and where you say, prove you have successful students' who've been paid out, prove something.. anything.. I don't feel that's unreasonable to ask.
If they can? Great. If they can't? .. your call.wealth4life.comMember@wealth4life.comJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 1,248
Hello all and an interesting read,
I know Mark personally and have been dealing with him for over 4 years … Mark has found deals for my group and we have made great profits from them and him, without his help this would not be the case.
There is in all business people who are left out in the cold and stranded, and this is sad to have happened via Massland as some have found from reading above. I would say that Mark is taking this on board as I believe he has a good character and high values to rectify this for the sake of his future reputation.
Not everybody likes you in this business when you chose to become a leader and a prophet. If you ask Donald Trumps staff what they think of him I am sure you will get a mixed bag of reply. or "you're fired"
When you attend $49.00 seminars you will find $49 dollar people and when you attend $5k events you will find different people. You also have the choice to network with people and build your own company like Massland, which is what it's all about, 5k is cheap in this business of property developing. My solicitor just did a new put and call agreement for me which cost $8,800.00
Marks business has grown very quickly and as a result of this some pressures in administration have emerged, anyway he's a good bloke with good intentions in my humble opinion and I've made money from him. My strategy is a little different as I enjoy optioning the properties doing the conceptual planning then revalue and on selling without becoming a builder with the head aches.
Good luck with your choices, I would recommend doing his one day event to get a taste of the bigger picture. Kindest Regards to all PS.
You won't find leaders amongst the crowds, they fly out in front.