- wealth4life.comMember@wealth4life.comJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 1,248
A friend of mine sent me a newsletter from Eddie Chan the guru … he also purchased a property from him where he believes he was paid over $30,000 commission from the developer 3 years ago and now the property has dropped by $140k in value
Eddie told him not to worry as property is a long term investment … his newsletter states he has been an accountant for 25 years when our research shows this is not the case at all ????
Should an accountant be paid huge commissions from developers when he also charges handsomely for doing a clients tax returns or do you see this as controlling the client … or is he just an opportunist … is this bloke for real and does he really have a rich uncle in Melbourne that taught him how to get rich – sounds a bit like rich dad poor dad to me ???
I don't know anything about Chan & Naylor except that I have only heard of them through this site. The scheme/scam you are describing is however all too common. Real successes are unlikely to be giving seminars etc- they are too busy making money. I know of one gentleman in Brisbane- his developments net him about 18% per annum (not counting depreciation benefits) . I've seen the figures. His accountant and solicitor are superb and operate out of small suburban practices- and are both as cheap as chips (about 1/3 city/cbd prices). I sometimes think that people get caught up in the razz a matazz and forget the basic essentials.
I hate the food chain/hidden commission/refer to matesdeals that are always going down.Other people are making money out of you and you aren't even aware of it most of the time.
Deal with people you can trust- but make them earn (and keep) your trust first.Misty1Member@misty1Join Date: 2004Post Count: 348
Easier said than done to "find someone you trust and deal with them". I would rather propose:
Always be aware of what you are putting your money into. Investigate, ask qu's (that's why this forum is so fantastic), go to seminars, read books, ask…ask…ask….
One can NEVER be sure if who they are dealing with is REALLY trustworthy. It's the truth, so pls dont give me the "that may be your story" replies. Just think about it…….how man of you that hesitate on this one, have been burnt by those you THOUGHT you could trust? I bet if you were honest, most or all would raise their hands.
Sounds like your friend didnt do his/her homework and just jumped in. So unfortunately its a classic case of "buyer beware".
Been there, burnt over and over, now finally learning! Good luck.mrdenn1sMember@mrdenn1sJoin Date: 2007Post Count: 18
Chan and Naylor seems to be aligned via referral to Metropole. I know of at least 3 metropole clients who where referred to them.
If you read the C&N website, it is strongly worded IMO as to why you should pay them, rather than "what is the value to me".
I dont like this type of approach personallycrjParticipant@crjJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 618
I would be concerned about the appropriateness of making allegations like "he believes he was paid over $30,000 commission" on a public forum.crj wrote:
I would be concerned about the appropriateness of making allegations like "he believes he was paid over $30,000 commission" on a public forum.
It aint illegal to receive a commission, in QLD it is disclosed on the purchasing documentstrakkaMember@trakkaJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 257wealth4life.com wrote:his newsletter states he has been an accountant for 25 years when our research shows this is not the case at all ????
I'd be more concerned about this statement, alleging deception. He actually says that he's "a qualified accountant with over 25 years experience". I think that even if what your research shows is that he's not been a qualified accountant for 25 years, he could well argue that he's a) a qualified accountant, and b) has over 25 years experience (as a property investor, in life, in anything!).
Maybe a new thread on "how can you tell who to trust?" is needed.
Here's a few:
High overheads = high pressure to perform at any cost
If they mention God or the Church- run for a hundred miles
Self promotion can be a worry. If someone is good at what they do the results speak for themselves.MichaelYardneyParticipant@michaelyardneyJoin Date: 2001Post Count: 616cu@thetop wrote:…… Real successes are unlikely to be giving seminars etc- they are too busy making money. …..
The general tone of this thread, being be careful from whom you take advice and be careful who you trust is very sound advice.
But I find the above an interesting statement and with all due respect a common one made by the "not so rich"
While I agree you should listen to people who have achieved what it is you want to achieve, I also know lot's of successful people and very wealthy people who teach because they enjoy it. (Sure I'm biased and may fall in that category.)
But let's look at Steve McKnight who kindly hosts this forum. Many would agree Steve is successful, but he teaches and gives seminars.
How about Robert Kiwasaki (Rich Dad Poor Dad), Anthony Robbins, Dolf De Roos, Brian Tracey, Zig Ziglar, John Demartini, Christopher Howard, The Reno Kings – the list goes on and on.
cu@thetop, successful people or rich people realise true wealth is much more than money. It is having health; friends and family to enjoy their money with; spirituality (whatever that means to you) and contribution.
Successful people don't need to spend all day "making money". Money is attracted to successful people.
In summary it's fine to be sceptical, but not so sceptical that you tar everybody with the same brush.
Again I will declare a vested interest – I'm proud to say Ed Chan is a personal friend and I know he is a man of integrity.
Further as he is not a member of this forum, I will take the opportunity to clarify that he recieved his accounting degree well over 25 years ago. I also know that he does have a substantial property portfolio
And by the way… yes he does have a Rich Uncle.
Good to see natural justice in play
Thank you for your comments Michael. I suspect that there is more money in 5k /weekend seminar with 100 participants then flipping 3 houses. just remember one education guru using the forum to raise $ for property investments- avoiding the ASIC prohibitions.
Old and cynical is my propblem.MichaelYardneyParticipant@michaelyardneyJoin Date: 2001Post Count: 616cu@thetop wrote:Thank you for your comments Michael. I suspect that there is more money in 5k /weekend seminar with 100 participants then flipping 3 houses. just remember one education guru using the forum to raise $ for property investments- avoiding the ASIC prohibitions.
Old and cynical is my propblem.
I guess cynical is better than gullible.
By the way Ed's Rich Uncle is in the BRW Rich 200 each year . It makes agreat story – I wish i had a good one like thant to tell.wealth4life.comMember@wealth4life.comJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 1,248
Thank you Michael for your comments,
Please provide the evidence that has been trusted to you, as you stated above, regarding 25+ years and I will remove myself from this site forever as a show of my commitment and good faith to you all … I don't doubt that Ed is a fine gentleman with a strong portfolio, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Proof provides credibility, if you write it show it.
I do have an issue with professional experienced people double dipping Mr Yardney, and that is the point I am making. I am not here to argue with you or any one else on this fantastic forum. There is a clearly defined law regarding sophisticated and unsophisticated investors and also leading or controlling a client. For every one story there are hundreds of bad ones about seminars. I do agree that the small percentage of great gurus you mention weight a fraction to all the scamers spoken about here or on ACA and other programs. It's harder to get a good name and easier to get a bad one.
"Man should not be blinded to whatever merit exists in the opportunity which he hath in hand, remembering that a thousand promises for the future should weigh as naught against the possession of a single piece of silver." – unknown author written in 1742 the magic story of success and all that it holds for you –
Hi Wealth4Life It has come to my attention that you have made several comments about myself that are inaccurate and I thought it best to correct it with the facts On your comment … his newsletter states he has been an accountant for 25 years when our research shows this is not the case at all ???? My response:I am not sure where you are researching but I received my Batchelor of Business Degree in 1982 from the University of Technology (previously known as the Institute of Technology) when I was 22 and I am now 49 (this year) so that makes it 27 years. I then attained my CPA status in 1983 but when David Naylor(NIA) and I joined up together in a Partnership known as Chan & Naylor in 1985 I left the CPA’s and joined The National Institute of Accountants(NIA) as CPA’s could not be in partnership with NIA’s back in 1985. Chan & Naylor was subsequently incorporated in 1990 (check ASIC records).So Chan & Naylor is over 23 years old and we now have offices in NSW (Pymble, Parramatta, Castle Hill), Perth, Melbourne, and Brisbane (recently) and soon to open in (2008) Central Coast and Newcastle. I am especially proud of the fact we have grown our business from 2 people to over 100 people based on good service, honesty and integrity and our specialisation in property structuring, asset protection and wealth creation through property.Chan & Naylor won the 2007 BRW Fastest Growing Accountancy Firm in Australia and continue to grow mainly from word of mouth referrals, publication of our books and seminars. We have spent minimal money on direct advertising which is a testament to the culture and goodwill of the brand and value of our services to client that has shown consistent growth for 23 years. On your comment “……does he really have a rich uncle in Melbourne that taught him how to get rich – sounds a bit like rich dad poor dad to me ???” My responseHis name is Bernard Chan and he lived in Sydney and has since passed away. His fortune was handed down to his 3 sons who now appear in the BRW Richest 200 Families in Australia. Their story maybe read in every BRW article which is published around September of each year. You can purchase back copies from BRW or wait till the next one is published. You will find them mentioned as the “Chan Family” and in 2007 their wealth was $220 million which was up from $200 million in 2006. I refer to him often because it was he who first started me thinking differently about wealth creation and taught me how 95% of people are held back by their own cynicism. Its fine to be sceptical because that saves you from being ripped off but a closed mindset is a by product of cynicism and that only hurts oneself. Like the cynical person who refused to buy a property because he had to pay the real estate a fee and the property doubles in value On your comment “….he also purchased a property from him where he believes he was paid over $30,000 commission from the developer 3 years ago and now the property has dropped by $140k in value..” My response I do not ever remember getting a fee of $30,000. However from time to time when clients ask us for property, we refer them to various Developers or Agents, but insist that they do their own research. Some developers pay no fee for a referral and others do pay a fee. The developer generally pays a larger Commission to a Real Estate Agent for selling the property as opposed to a Referral Fee. The Referral fees were generally $1,000 at that time. This usually covered the time required to spend with the client to advise them on the right structure such as Trusts, Companies etc and assist with finance structuring, assessing the numbers and tax planning etc which otherwise would have been charged to the client separately. We charged clients our time when we did not receive a referral fee from the Developer or agent. The Referral fee was a win for the client because it saves the client from getting an accounting fee from us. Currently our practice is to disclose all fees received. Statistics from Residex shows that 3 years ago the market in Sydney was at its peak (2003/2004) and most properties in Sydney showed a decline in value since then (except perhaps the higher end properties in the Eastern suburbs). Most of my own Sydney portfolio has suffered the same decline. It is simply part of the property cycle and anyone who knows anything about property knows that all investments go up and down and you only crystallise a loss if one sells. Investors as opposed to traders ride through the highs and lows. The Sydney market is expected to experience an upturn over the next few years but will eventually come back down again, its part and parcel of the property investing cycle which has seen similar cycles historically. Your Comments “….is this bloke for real” My commentsThe last time I looked in the mirror I was realJJtrakkaMember@trakkaJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 257
Good on you, Ed, for your very calm and polite response.
wealth4life.com, alluding that you've done research that shows that Ed's statement of >25 years as an accountant is untrue, without providing that research, is really unfair to Ed. He has no chance to reply and defend himself, and explain where your information is wrong (if it is) eg "that's another Ed Chan".
If you've got information, I think it's only fair to either provide it and allow Ed to respond, or to unreservedly retract your allegations. Even if your information is wrong, I don't think there's any reason for you to leave the forum; I'm sure an apology to Ed would serve.
Without commenting on the accuracy or otherwise of what wealth4life.com has alleged, may I take this opportunity to implore all forumites to think very carefully before making public statements that have the capacity to affect people's livelihoods and reputation. If what you're saying is true, then provide the facts for others to judge for themselves. But if it's a rumour, something you've heard, or just a perception, then I think it's really unfair to publish that on the forum.
Remember that old story about "mud sticks"? You can do a lot of damage to a decent person's reputation with just a hint; it's a power that must be exercised with discretion.v8ghiaMember@v8ghiaJoin Date: 2005Post Count: 871
Not the type od posts I'm used to here……but while we are at it….if I can address Ed Chan – Ed, I really enjoyed reading your profile in API not that long ago. Just thought you might like to know. (and yes, a very tactful, dare I say professional first forum post under the circumstances )
"….Please provide the evidence that has been trusted to you, as you stated above, regarding 25+ years and I will remove myself from this site forever as a show of my commitment and good faith to you all …"
My response:There is no need to remove yourself from this site because a healthy debate is great. I don't blame you for being skeptical but make sure you satisfy yourself by going to the University of Technology (previously known as NSW Institute of Technology) and you will see that i graduated with a Batchelor of Business Degree in 1982. I started Chan & Naylor in 1985 but have been a Practicing Accountant since i graduated in 1982…
"…I do have an issue with professional experienced people double dipping Mr Yardney…"
My Response: Whenever we received a Referral Fee which in most cases was around $1000 we did not charge the client for the time we spent with them determing the right structiure for asset protection,tax planning,estate planning,finance structutures and sometimes we could spend up to 6 hours or more doing this if the clients circumstances were extremely complicated. We only charged the client the time we spent with them when we did not receive a Referral fee. We have not double dipped.
I would like to apologise to everyone who is trying to read my last posting as i did not format the sentences properly and it all jumbled together. This is the first time i have ever been on a public forum due to time constraints and was not familier with how it all worked. I hope i have done this one better. I even put a smile face at the end of my sentence which turned out looking JJ
Thank you to V8GHia and trakka for your support and yes i think what trakka said regarding being careful about what you state on a public forum is important because people do not have an opportunity to defend allegations and a lot of people believe everything they read without checking the credibility of the sources.There is no need for an apology from Wealt4Life. Everyone makes mistakes including me.bardon wrote:Good to see natural justice in play
And even better to see further natural justice in play and not degenerating into a slanging match
How many times do we come to a conclusion without hearing both sides of the story ?mymatephilMember@mymatephilJoin Date: 2007Post Count: 9
Can I also just add that the Internet is regarded just like any other media outlet. Please be careful in making allegations about individuals and companies as defamation laws apply.I work in the media and have seen the law swing into action many times in relation to coments posted on websites. Not so long ago, on a TV industry website, several people from the big TV stations in Australia started alledging that one of their collegues/competitors was rewarded for work that they deemed to have been copied from the USA. The site was shut down for 48 hours whilst the Websites host went into damage control after receiving threatening letters from the legal department of Channel ?be careful out there in cyber space