Come on everyone, surely I'm not the only person here who thinks that renovating is a good idea……..my life has more meaning then spending it and large chunks of my money at hardware stores, building supply shops and choosing new towel racks. Dont get me started on people with poor listening skills and telling me what goes well with what. No my friends, renovating is the new hell, dirty dangerous, time consuming, energy zapping, demoralising and lonely. Every hour spent ripping that old wall out (probably load bearing) is time away from your significant other, TV, dog, little person. I have significant reservations that doing major renos, that is, more then paint and carpet is really justified over time in relation to capital gain appreciation. Land appreciates, not the building. Come on fellow anti-renovaters, unite against the wall wreckers, the kitchen makeovers, the plumbing movers, the garden guru's, the down light, mood light, flood lighters! Tenants want somewhere clean and tidy (new carpet and paint) naturally you wouldnt consider re doing floor boards as they arent depreciated the same as carpet. So, throw sponges at the telly when the renovator shows are on…. you cant do it, it will take twice as long and three times more expensive. Unite I say.XeniaMember@xeniaJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 1,231
You are going about it the wrong way. I have renovated many properties and the heaviest thing I ever picked up was a mobile phone and pen!
The value of renovations is it ads equity to properties that you can borrow against to buy more properties. It's a wealth builder and very well worth the phone callsAmandaBSParticipant@amandabsJoin Date: 2005Post Count: 549
The only thing I agree with is "Yes" that I'm over the reno TV shows but as for doing a reno there's nothing like it!!
We've renovated heaps of houses, kids & dogs in tow, so it becomes a family affair. Kids just love to smash things so throw them a crow bar and step back. By day I work as an Accountant ….dressed in skirts, makeup & high heals, but on weekends out come the T-boots & overalls and I'm off. Nothing beats the smell of paint fumes and turps!!PosEnterprisesMember@posenterprisesJoin Date: 2006Post Count: 290
Hi Amanda do you renovate and sell or renovate and hold? What do you think is the best to build up cashflow also how do you get finance arranged to do this? I am still learning how to work it out.
thanksJONCHUMember@jonchuJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 112
Hi my name is Jon, I am a full time property investor, it would be good for you to think about this: If you do the work yourself, then it is not an investment, if you delegate the work and manage from home/phone/odd visit to your sites, etc, then it is an investment.
For me if I had to pick up a hammer I would have stayed at my corporate job, safer…
I am running 4 renos at the moment, and there is no way I could do this without delegating 100% to tradies. I have one handy man that I pay a little extra per hr and he does all the running around, including buying materials, etc, etc.
Are you an investor or you just have changed your job for another job…
This was a good distinction for me, it helped me not loose track when I decided to do this for a living.
My post should have read ''renovating isn't a good idea" thanks for all the comments. I'm well aware of the principles of renovating and have done my fair share. We are currently doing a bathroom in our PPOR. Oh joy… However I'm not totally convinced that renovating any property is either time or cost effective. Our 2 IPs have gone up in value significantly over the previous 2 years with only a coat of paint and the odd bit of carpet. Yes, they are in good growth areas. A fellow investor proved this theory in buying 7 IP's and doing minimal work to them. In time they all went up in value by a factor of 2 and 3. So my rhetorical question is 'do we renovate for the right reasons? I guess it comes down to personal preference but time is precious and I would much rather spend it with my family then sucking in dust for days on end and going deaf via power tools. Clearly there are many, many varying factors in property investing and with the lack of tradesman in many areas being a significant issue. Many tradesman I contacted recently were reluctant to take on any new work until the new year. If you can renovate by a phone and yellow pages, then great, thats the way to go. What does amaze me is non tradies attempting to do complex building / reno work. Surely these people would object if a tradie came into their place of employment and attempted to do their job. I have been into 1000's of homes in the past decade as part of my employment and have seen a plethora of dodgy tiling, fencing, plumbing, painting, wall removal, electrical work etc and the list goes on. Life is great !businessglobalParticipant@businessglobalJoin Date: 2005Post Count: 118
We love renovating, and it is a challenge and very creative. We are professionals in the corporate world and have left the corp world 4 years ago, and we renovate, build, split land, have rentals, sell some, and we increase our equity through renos approx 300k per year. I find it better than battling traffic, putting up with sleezy bosses, corporate structures, bitchiness, getting up early, and never seeing my partner.
We work together now, have lunch together daily, swim , wake up when we want, start work normally after 10am and if we wish to swim int he day at the beach, then we start in the arv and work til late with music going.
I take my dog, mum, grandfather, mother in law, aunties and whoever needs work. We employ about 12 people between 19- 25 years of age, that had no experience, qualifications, self esteem, and now the greatest reward is seeing their confidence,and some have gone to do their own renos.
After we do a few renos we reward ourselves with a 5 week overseas backpacking fun adventure and just got back from France/ Italy/ Greece/ Dubai, to start another 2 overhauls before xmas, then well rest up again and enjoy the gold coast for a month with family.
At least I cant get sacked, retrenched, put on the scrap heap when Im 50, and arent told by anyone what to do, when, how long a holiday or lunch break to have, not to bring my dog to work, turn the music down- we have used I guess our knowledge, uni education to think, plan, strategise, read and digest a lot of info, ideas, tax, loans, etc, project manage.
Plus I have learnt good skills- painting, gardening, plastering, tiling, paving, floor boards.Also Ilike dealing with all the tradies, people int he industry, they are characters, down to earth, good stories, make us laugh a lot and are genuine, unlike corporate structure employment.
KyliecrashyParticipant@crashyJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 736
I would like to hear more about how you do a reno.
we are in similar situation but your setup sounds good.
we travelled around the U.S & NZ for 3 months after reno #1, looking for another holiday as we are about to complete #3. we also bludge a lot, Tuesday is often video day & we do half days on Sat & Sun. we used to work 6am to 6pm but it nearly killed us. now we barely do a 40 hr week.
we both enjoy spending all our time together instead of sitting in traffic & dealing with the whining public. we sometimes employ 2-3 people with no job prospects.
we seem to be getting better at this game, reno #1 took 12 months & made 83k, #2 took 6 months & made 100k, #3 will be 2 months & 80k. 300k p.a sounds good.
cheersHandyAndy888Member@handyandy888Join Date: 2005Post Count: 160
I think you should chane your topic title to.."What are people's opinion on renovating?" and then proceed to post the same as you did….you will still get responses, but perhaps you will not com across as negative…AND, you may learn something from opening your mind…good luck with your new found view of renovating…
Chill Andrew, its called sense of humor, thanks for enlightening me though. Hey, will you really teach me something if I open my mind, just like you say? Is this where you want me to apologise for being so ''negative''. Lighten up fella. Since you didnt get it, my point is renovating isn't for everyone and clearly not every house is worth renovating. I have renovated plenty and my portfolio is chugging away nicely thanks. I have nothing but respect and admiration for full time renovators, such as the previous, mature, thoughtful people who responded prior to your inane comment. I live in world of reality and accept that renovating is time consuming, difficult and requires considerable skill. Have a great weekend.CoopsozParticipant@coopsozJoin Date: 2007Post Count: 3
I personally thought the opening post was quite humourous. I too don't like renovating, I'm too much of a perfectionist, as a result I need to go over things several times to get them right.abbruzziParticipant@abbruzziJoin Date: 2006Post Count: 19
I don't know if Im "for' or 'against' in relation to this topic..
But just got in at 11.30 back home in Sydney after flying up to Brisbane for the 4th weekend of renovating one of the flats in a duplex I have in inner city.
Was nice to log on and read this topic with the various views.
I think the initial topic is true in the sense that people should do what they are good at and leave the big jobs to the experts. (knocking down walls? forget it, not for me)
It was a real logistical exercise doing the reno in Brissy. Settlement was on 6 september, and I have a pro-active property manager with all the tradies on the books and who was willing to get me quotes for any work requried to be done. (with 11% commission)
Got quotes for kitchen $5000 including replacing sink, which I thought unnessary. I did the kitchen for $1000 ikea cabinets, just needed my time to pick up all the stuff and assemble.
Bathroom quote came in at $7000, get real! it's just a rental. This included ripping out the whole shower and rebuilding it. I found the tray to be perfectly ok and waterproof and so I just cleaned it up, and retiled over the existing tiles (with pre-bond), and changed the taps to cheap chrome jobs found at bunnings. Got the bath resurfaced professionally. Knights tile paint looks crap when I tried it.
On the crazy side of things, I did rationalise my flying up there in doing 28 hours work per weekend, from 8am saturaday to 8pm sunday with 5 hours sleep and meal times. With $280 return airfare = equivalent $10 per hour to pay a handyman. I took my hand tools up there. Just brought them back cuz job done! (timewise, reno was a bit stretched out, due to unreliable painter and then me deciding on get plaster to put in soundproof wall between flats.
In this past weekend, I put in 50 sqm of sir water lawn. This was as reno crazy as I got, hand digging up the old weedy lawn last week, I hand dug to the required 80-100mm depth of dirt (came to 3 cubic meters of crudy soil, excavation took from sat 10am to 8pm, slept from 8pm to 12pm in the car. From 12 midnight to 4am wheelborrowed 3 cubic metres of screened soil from front to back of house, dumping it in the lawn to be area. slept from 4am to 5am when first light allowed me to see to spread and level the new soil. Started laying the new turf at 6am and had a beautiful lawn at 9.30, just in time to return hired wheelburrow and lawn roller.
Funny thing was, the most memorable part of the weekend was just leisurely sweeping the driveway on a lovely warm sunday in brisbane after the work was done. Love that feeling of ownership and fixing up what's mine, chatting with the neighbour over the fence.
My past experience is only bathroom tiling, replacing toilet and vanity and painting my apartment.
Oh crap, look at the time, 1.30am. I better get some sleep before havin a well earned rest for the next 5 days at the office.
AbbruzziLarsontMember@larsontJoin Date: 2006Post Count: 24
I’ve laughed at myself reading through this forum stream, as i reflected on the highs and lows of my own reno experiences.
I think it is true though that renos can easily become stressful and its never quite clear why things become stressful until its to late, and the job therafter may seem like hell.
As I’m getting older 33 going on 34, I still enjoy the reno challenge but I do things slower now. Instead of the wall coming down taking two days I let it take three or four. This way I enjoy what I do. I eat good food while working not take away, I allow twice as long at the hardware store, and I now call in tradies and handymen as required, but I co-ordinate when they are working, and I usally get well out of thier way. Family time here.
Anyway all the best I guess if you dont enjoy it you’ll stop renovating.HandyAndy888Member@handyandy888Join Date: 2005Post Count: 160
HHmmm…I think there is a bit of over analysis to my post here…can you see the thumbs up???brcParticipant@brcJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 63
The post topic should really be 'never do any type of investment strategy that doesn't suit your personality and investment goals'.
Handy people who love getting their fingers dirty will always find renovating an rewarding experience.
Desk jockeys who like to think and analyse will always regret opening a tin of paint.
Neither is right. What is right is doing things that suit your personality and outlook.dollarmanMember@dollarmanJoin Date: 2007Post Count: 10
sounds like u just cant hack the tradesman life( not paying you out just stating the obvious).. well now you know it anyway. so this strategy isnt for you..
you gotta put in effort to get rewards.. if u cant be bothered to do the hours on a house, do the hours doin sumthing else? stock market? real estate purchasing? etc..