All Topics / Help Needed! / Display homes with leaseback, etc.

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  • Profile photo of dwvdwv
    Member
    @dwv
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 4
    Hi everyone,

    I'm all newbie to this forum so please be gentle… =) I've been reading posts for several weeks now and this has lead me to decide on finally taking the plunge (well not yet, technically, as I can still back out).

    Let me give you a bit of a background… My friend and I migrated from the Philippines nearly 3 years ago and didn't really know what to expect coming here. Fortunately, each of us was able to get a job after 2 months and we are currently earning around 60K each a year. We were renting for nearly 2.5 years until we got an abrupt termination notice from the landlord as he was going the sell the property to his brother who went on to live there. So we decided to buy a house instead of renting again since we were already contemplating on getting into real estate anyway.

    We bought a house in Nothwest Sydney (Kellyville Ridge) for 500K (just the limit for stamp duty exemption for first home buyers) 6 months ago and currently, we have 391K left on our loan with 40K on our offset account. Now we found a display home just nearby (The Ponds – a new suburb) where the land area is 506.8 sqm and the house has 4-bedrooms + study, 2.5 bath and double garage. It's complete with ducted aircon, pergola, alarm, wooden flooring, 10k wish card, 1 year leaseback + 2×6-months option to extend at 5% yield, builder is Australand and Landcom… these all for 500K which is less than the prices of their initial home+land pacakges (starts from 520K I think) which are all sold and occupied at the moment.

    The only uncertainty is that it is currently their office site and they will rebuild the necessary features when they move out. I know Australand because they're the ones who built our current property… I had problems in the past but nothing major that I won't buy again from them. So I hope when they rebuild, I wouldn't have major problems.

    We have given the 1K deposit yesterday with just a hope that our next loan application will be approved. We've found other display homes in The New Rouse Hill (Delfin/Cosmopoilitan) and they were selling it with 6% yield for 2 years. But there's only one left and it's a bit pricey, I think… and there are no houses built around the area yet so occupancy may be a problem in the near future (I may be very wrong, though). But I know it will be a good area in the future since it's just beside the new mega center and the proposed railway (The Ponds, btw, is just a 5-10 minute drive to the megacenter and to stanhope leisure center and shopping mall. They will also build a mini-center with IGA and other small shops and will have tennis courts and community centers with no community fees!). We also went to Nelson's ridge which we also found to be a good place since it's near Parramatta but didn't have the same feeling when we're looking around Ponds. We went to Ropes Crossing and found that the yields were 8-10% for two years. Whoah! But the properties with 10% yields are very pricey considering the location (535K at St. Mary's) but some units I found a bit reasonable (400-450K range for a 4-bedroom). The development of this area started 2 years ago and I think people are not very keen on buying here because of the reputation of the surrounding areas (it might not be the same in 5 years time though… any comments here?) and it's just too far from Parrammatta and the City. M4 and the Great Western Highway are just nearby but I was told the traffic going to GWH is a bit notorious.

    Now, for my worries:

    1. With 391K still left on our loan on a 500K property (109K equity?) could we successfully apply for another 535K (500K+7%) loan? I have contacted our broker but she's on holidays and will be back on Tuesday.

    2. Based on the above, do you think the IP from Ponds is a good deal considering it is only giving a 5% yield compared to the 8-10% yeild in Ropes Crossing? I think the capital growth in the Ponds IP will be greater in the future than the ones in Ropes (any comments?). I have read somewhere here that a guy purchased an IP in Kellyville Ridge for 482K and the tennant pays 450 a week which is also around 5% and overall response was positive.

    3. What do you think about display homes as IPs? Pros and cons?

    4. Have someone here already heard about or have seen "The Ponds"? What do you think about the place? Personally, I love the view of the Blue Mountains which I can also see from our house.

    5. Someone here have comments about Ropes Crossing? Pros and cons?

    6. Will our 40K offset be considered in the computation of the equity?

    7. I came from a country where you can buy a good second hand car by working your butt off for 10 years and buying a house is just a dream. Now, after a few years here I have a house and have been contemplating on buying another one (just 6 months after we bought our first one!). Do you think it's too early to buy another one? I know we can manage it financially as we were trained from childhood to save our money… so, why not? That's one of the main reasons I came here anyway – to fulfill my dreams.

    I'm sure I will have other questions that will pop out later but for now these are what come into mind. Apologies for the long post and thank you.

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    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
    Member
    @l.a-aussie
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 1,488
    dwv wrote:
    Hi everyone,

    I'm all newbie to this forum so please be gentle… =) I've been reading posts for several weeks now and this has lead me to decide on finally taking the plunge (well not yet, technically, as I can still back out).

    Let me give you a bit of a background… My friend and I migrated from the Philippines nearly 3 years ago and didn't really know what to expect coming here. Fortunately, each of us was able to get a job after 2 months and we are currently earning around 60K each a year. We were renting for nearly 2.5 years until we got an abrupt termination notice from the landlord as he was going the sell the property to his brother who went on to live there. So we decided to buy a house instead of renting again since we were already contemplating on getting into real estate anyway.

    We bought a house in Nothwest Sydney (Kellyville Ridge) for 500K (just the limit for stamp duty exemption for first home buyers) 6 months ago and currently, we have 391K left on our loan with 40K on our offset account. Now we found a display home just nearby (The Ponds – a new suburb) where the land area is 506.8 sqm and the house has 4-bedrooms + study, 2.5 bath and double garage. It's complete with ducted aircon, pergola, alarm, wooden flooring, 10k wish card, 1 year leaseback + 2×6-months option to extend at 5% yield, builder is Australand and Landcom… these all for 500K which is less than the prices of their initial home+land pacakges (starts from 520K I think) which are all sold and occupied at the moment.

    The only uncertainty is that it is currently their office site and they will rebuild the necessary features when they move out. I know Australand because they're the ones who built our current property… I had problems in the past but nothing major that I won't buy again from them. So I hope when they rebuild, I wouldn't have major problems.

    We have given the 1K deposit yesterday with just a hope that our next loan application will be approved. We've found other display homes in The New Rouse Hill (Delfin/Cosmopoilitan) and they were selling it with 6% yield for 2 years. But there's only one left and it's a bit pricey, I think… and there are no houses built around the area yet so occupancy may be a problem in the near future (I may be very wrong, though). But I know it will be a good area in the future since it's just beside the new mega center and the proposed railway (The Ponds, btw, is just a 5-10 minute drive to the megacenter and to stanhope leisure center and shopping mall. They will also build a mini-center with IGA and other small shops and will have tennis courts and community centers with no community fees!). We also went to Nelson's ridge which we also found to be a good place since it's near Parramatta but didn't have the same feeling when we're looking around Ponds. We went to Ropes Crossing and found that the yields were 8-10% for two years. Whoah! But the properties with 10% yields are very pricey considering the location (535K at St. Mary's) but some units I found a bit reasonable (400-450K range for a 4-bedroom). The development of this area started 2 years ago and I think people are not very keen on buying here because of the reputation of the surrounding areas (it might not be the same in 5 years time though… any comments here?) and it's just too far from Parrammatta and the City. M4 and the Great Western Highway are just nearby but I was told the traffic going to GWH is a bit notorious.

    Now, for my worries:

    1. With 391K still left on our loan on a 500K property (109K equity?) could we successfully apply for another 535K (500K+7%) loan? I have contacted our broker but she's on holidays and will be back on Tuesday.
    You can normally access only 80% of your propertie's value. So you have $400k available, but you still owe $391k, so your useable equity  is only $9k. With the offset you have $49k. Not enough for a deposit normally. You can borrow up to 100% of your house value with some lenders, and you would need to pay a few grand in Loan Mortgage Insurance, but personally I think this is a very dangerouse financial position where your PPoR is concerned.

    2. Based on the above, do you think the IP from Ponds is a good deal considering it is only giving a 5% yield compared to the 8-10% yeild in Ropes Crossing? I think the capital growth in the Ponds IP will be greater in the future than the ones in Ropes (any comments?). I have read somewhere here that a guy purchased an IP in Kellyville Ridge for 482K and the tennant pays 450 a week which is also around 5% and overall response was positive.
    It sounds as though you have done a bit of reserch on the local prices, and it would seem that you are not being charged the leaseback money in the purchase price (many people are). Could be worth it.

    3. What do you think about display homes as IPs? Pros and cons?
    The danger may be not being able to get a tenant after the lease back period expires (what is the area's rental demand like for your type of property?), and /or you may not be able to get the same level of rent as you are being paid in the leaseback. Check the local agents for the rent values and demand for your type of property.

    4. Have someone here already heard about or have seen "The Ponds"? What do you think about the place? Personally, I love the view of the Blue Mountains which I can also see from our house.
    Don't know it; you sound as though you are switched on and have done some research. Have confidence in your ability and move forward.

    5. Someone here have comments about Ropes Crossing? Pros and cons?

    6. Will our 40K offset be considered in the computation of the equity?
    Yes, see above.

    7. I came from a country where you can buy a good second hand car by working your butt off for 10 years and buying a house is just a dream. Now, after a few years here I have a house and have been contemplating on buying another one (just 6 months after we bought our first one!). Do you think it's too early to buy another one? I know we can manage it financially as we were trained from childhood to save our money… so, why not? That's one of the main reasons I came here anyway – to fulfill my dreams.
    You have already proved you can do it in the short time you have been in our fantastic Country, so, if you can obtain finance and keep a safe financial position, I would keep on going.

    I'm sure I will have other questions that will pop out later but for now these are what come into mind. Apologies for the long post and thank you.

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    Profile photo of 888Abundance888Abundance
    Participant
    @888abundance
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 60
    Display Home – what kind of tenant?

    Hi Dwv

    Just a few different considerations you might want to think about apart from what has already been said.

    Is the display home only to be used as display (?) or is there a likelihood that the developer will 'occupy' at some point. There are three issues with the answer to this.

    If used only for display, they might be considered as a type of 'commercial property' for the duration of the display plus the two extension options. If so, you might want to include in your contract 'clauses' for all outgoings to be covered by the tenant and a 'makegood' provision of some type.

    Also this may determine what insurance cover you need as it may not be viewed as a 'typical' scenarion for a landlord's policy for residential property. The amount of customer traffic might raise some additional public liability issues. Also it might be interesting from a quantity surveyors perspective whether the higher traffic would lead to more rapid depreciation lifespan.

    Perhaps you could use these issues for leverage in getting a better leaseback rental rate and terms & conditions.

    Best of luck.

    Profile photo of dwvdwv
    Member
    @dwv
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 4
    888Abundance wrote:
    Display Home – what kind of tenant?

    Hi Dwv

    Just a few different considerations you might want to think about apart from what has already been said.

    Is the display home only to be used as display (?) or is there a likelihood that the developer will 'occupy' at some point. There are three issues with the answer to this.

    If used only for display, they might be considered as a type of 'commercial property' for the duration of the display plus the two extension options. If so, you might want to include in your contract 'clauses' for all outgoings to be covered by the tenant and a 'makegood' provision of some type.

    Also this may determine what insurance cover you need as it may not be viewed as a 'typical' scenarion for a landlord's policy for residential property. The amount of customer traffic might raise some additional public liability issues. Also it might be interesting from a quantity surveyors perspective whether the higher traffic would lead to more rapid depreciation lifespan.

    Perhaps you could use these issues for leverage in getting a better leaseback rental rate and terms & conditions.

    Best of luck.

    Hi Gary,

    The house is currently their office & display home. I think they will be there for a few more months then they will move out to another office. When they do move out they will then put the kitchen, study walls and 2 bedrooms upstairs. Currently, the walls and kitchen aren't there as they have their boards and maps + upstairs function room. When they transfer to another office, they will rebuild the property and will become a display home.

    Could you further explain what you meant by "include in your contract 'clauses' for all outgoings to be covered by the tenant and a 'makegood' provision of some type?" What would be the disadvantages if it were considered "commercial" by the bank? I haven't seen the contract yet but I will have it by Wednesday this week, I was told. I'll make sure I'll read through it.

    I haven't thought about the traffic leading to a more rapid depreciation lifespan. Who can I ask regarding this? Who decides the depreciation value anyway? Maybe I can justify the increase in yield if I could understand this more (Getting paranoid…)

    Have just called my broker and she told me that I can borrow without using my equity. The way it works is, since we have 40K offset and 25K in the redrawal facility, we can pay the 57K needed for a 95% loan (including LMI and stamp duties, etc). Then she said I could include the 10K LMI into the loan and we'll just pay 47K with the offset and redraw facility. We'll have a few more thousand left for our cashflow (although we really don't want to deplete this further). Our loan will be around 485K and 3100+ per month repayment fixed for 3 or 5 years.  So whatever happens, our PPOR will not be connected to the IP. I do hope the bank approves and value the property as is.

    Profile photo of ctlaltdelescctlaltdelesc
    Participant
    @ctlaltdelesc
    Join Date: 2008
    Post Count: 1

    HI Dwv,

    Last week i went to THe ponds display home.  THey still selling sales office as you mention above.
    No sure if this one same like want do you mention above.
    Do you end up bought this property or did you put it back into market?
    IF yes, what is make you dont want to buy this property?
    Looking forward to hear from you.

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