All Topics / General Property / sick of greedy plumbers & electricians

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  • Profile photo of crashycrashy
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    ttman got a little stroppy, sent me a private message telling me he was gonna “get me”. Its real childish tit for tat stuff.

    he was decimated in this thread and thought it might be a good idea to take it out on somebody.

    his pathetic comment “don’t waste money on crappy little share programs, they don’t work” is suppose to be devastating to me he thinks, except he just exposed himself as even more ignorant since I dont actually sell share programs. oops.

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    MasterREL wrote:
    L.A Aussie wrote:

    Are we back on the customer's attitude AGAIN? I thought we had a gutful of that a few weeks ago with you and crashy.
    Customer attitude is an external factor and should not have an influence on your professionalism in your job.
    I worked in retail for 30 years, and if I had let the customers' crappy attitudes dictate how well I worked, I would have had a very unsuccessful business.

    No it dicates how much tradies will charge you.If it looks like you are going to be a pain in the butt ,then the price will be high.

    Sometimes the customer is nice at the start, but is a pain after the tradie starts work, and a lot of times the tradie will quote a high price if:
    a) he is really busy and doesn't want the job, but will do it for a premium price
    b) he thinks the customer is a bunny and he can get away with an over-quote
    c) all of the above.

    I'm not talking about the price they charge; it's up to the customer to accept it or reject it. I do realise this thread is more on the price issue, but my post was about the thread a few weeks ago.

    I'm talking about the reaction by the tradie to the difficult customer, whereby they take on the attitude; "this guy's a pain, so I'm not gunna do a decent job; that'll show him".

    This attitude is wrong, but according to many who have commented on this issue, it seems to be all too common. Cowboy tradies with unprofessional work practices and ethics.

    You have no control over the customer's behavior, and it has no bearing on how well you do your job (at least; it shouldn't). The tradie should be able to do his job professionally and to a high standard, no matter how much of a pr**ck the customer is.

    Profile photo of MasterRELMasterREL
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    L.A Aussie wrote:
    Sometimes the customer is nice at the start, but is a pain after the tradie starts work, and a lot of times the tradie will quote a high price if:
    a) he is really busy and doesn't want the job, but will do it for a premium price
    b) he thinks the customer is a bunny and he can get away with an over-quote
    c) all of the above.

    I'm not talking about the price they charge; it's up to the customer to accept it or reject it. I do realise this thread is more on the price issue, but my post was about the thread a few weeks ago.

    I'm talking about the reaction by the tradie to the difficult customer, whereby they take on the attitude; "this guy's a pain, so I'm not gunna do a decent job; that'll show him".

    This attitude is wrong, but according to many who have commented on this issue, it seems to be all too common. Cowboy tradies with unprofessional work practices and ethics.

    You have no control over the customer's behavior, and it has no bearing on how well you do your job (at least; it shouldn't). The tradie should be able to do his job professionally and to a high standard, no matter how much of a pr**ck the customer is.

    Yes agree, the job should be done to a high standard regardless.Most of the time this is the case with private businesses as the tradie will worry about  his name being affected.Big Companies that hire  subcontractors that they pay next to nothing are a different case.They are more likely to rush the job and not care

    Profile photo of L.A AussieL.A Aussie
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    I have had the 'chip on the shoulder' treatment from both sides of the trades – private and the Big Company employed sub-contractor. It makes no difference, sadly.

    As a footnote, I have had good treatment from tradies and woeful treatment. I always expect good treatment and scratch my head at the bad; why are they being so self-destructive; don't they know they will never earn another dollar off me or my friends??

    Contrarily; I have had to deal with self employed people in the computer repair service industry a few times in recent years, and have never had nothing else but exemplary service and treatment. The tradies should take a leaf out of their book.

    Car repair shops; now there's an industry!

    Profile photo of Misty1Misty1
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    There are services and books avail (eg: "estimators" and "estimation books such as Rawlinsons guide") that are current, and provide the set / standard rates for all trades ervices and materials.
    I too have had a gut full of rip-off merchants, but not just tradies. So, the best way to get even is to eduacate yourself (with such info as provided from above mentioned) and that way you can negotiate, or refuse prior to accepting the service/goods.
    Bearing in mind, plumbers and sparkies are the only servces required to be "licenced", so they kind of have the market cornered, unfortunately.
    So, if you can't beat 'em…join 'em. I am! I am so over rip-off builders, I am now doing a carpentry course!

    Profile photo of crashycrashy
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    the worst industry Ive had trouble with is removalists.

    they think they can hold you to ransom because they have everything you own in their truck.

    Mover #1:
    – move from Syd to Bris. Mover took our stuff to Melb, “broke down” in Coffs harbour for 10 days, we moved into house but had no furniture, no bed, no CV’s for job interviews, no makeup for the mrs. Got our stuff after 2 weeks, most damaged from poor packing and 3000km travel. Mover demanded payment in full before he unpacked the truck, and the price suddenly went up 10% for “gst” even though he told us the amount included it when quoting.
    Mover left some stuff on the truck and sent it by courier (bill customer) 2 weeks after that, everything was smashed. So we overpaid twice to have our stuff damaged and delivered late.

    Mover #2:
    – quoted $80/hr and estimated 3 hrs. expecting a bill of $240. Mover went to wrong address wasting 1/2 hr. They did a good job but bill came in @ $450. Mover said they add 1hr travel time at each end. I was angry cos this was never disclosed on the phone, and he included the 1/2 hr when he went to wrong house. Eventually settled on $300

    Mover #3:
    – quoted $95/hr plus travel time to the job but not from it. Mover left old house 10 mins before me, I got to new house & they werent there. 40 mins later they turn up. said they stopped for a drink. They did a good job but charged me for the 50 mins they didnt actually work. Thats about $80. Refused to issue a tax receipt. Their boss promised me a refund and a tax receipt, neither ever eventuated.

    Mover #4:
    – quoted $70/hr for local move (he lived one street away and we were moving about 1500m) and I assumed this meant no travel time. He estimated 5 hrs and therefore based on 5 hrs the bill would be $350. Actual move took 3 hrs. he demanded $350. I argued that the ad in the paper says $70/hr and the bill should be $210. he says he charges 1 hr travel time. I argue he never said that on phone and he lives 1 street away. He gets within 5 mm of my face and screams that he quoted $350 and I better pay it or things are gonna get broken. I threaten to call police and that has no effect. I stand my ground and tell him his intimidation tactics dont scare me. after 20 mins a crowd is forming and the mrs is getting scared so I give him the money making sure everyone hears me call him a ripoff merchant and a cowboy. he refuses to issue an invoice or receipt. Will wait till he files BAS for this quarter than call the ATO.

    seems you need a written quote from a reputable company or else you get ripped off.

    Profile photo of Easy Beach ShowerEasy Beach Shower
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    I hope this BLOG will help you find more info to save money and time on your Plumbing.

    http://www.plumbingtips.com.au

    William.

    Profile photo of v8ghiav8ghia
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    crashy wrote:
    the worst industry Ive had trouble with is removalists.  Will wait till he files BAS for this quarter than call the ATO.

    Like your style crashy……great idea. I would have suggested contacting the National security hotline with some sort of bogus accusation regarding 'something not quite right with their removal activities', but that is a bit too vindictive…and probably should'nt even joke about that should I?

    Have you considered not moving anymore before someone gets hurt?  Cheers!

    Profile photo of markkay78markkay78
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    You have no idea!

    What is your profession? I'm sorry if you've been ripped off but your comments are just rediculous. I'm not trying to talk up the Electrical profession but if you want unskilled workers coming into your house with one years apprenticeship experience, go for it. I hope you can sleep well at night knowing that your kids are safe and that your house won't burn down.
    It's a licensed trade for that very reason. Peoples lives are in our hands every time we do work at someone's house. If something goes wrong, it's our backside that gets kicked.

    Profile photo of nicko7nicko7
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    I didn't want to post anything but….

    How about  giving tradesman a little bit of respect yes its not brain surgery. Its more important as Markkay just said. We are licenced for a reason.

    Your house has an electrical fire – your child (or tenant) electrocutes themselves 
    Your main sewer line has back-fall and wasn't laid correctly so it breaks and all your sewerage is in your front lawn.
    Your roof leaks

    All because we wanted to pay a little less so the tradesman had to cut corners. Wouldn't you want it done correctly

    People don't understand what the four years involves
    – In total 1 yrs study at trade school
    – 3years on the job training at below minimum wage which is where you put your schooling into practice and learn from other tradesmen
     
    I'm sorry but trying to cram that into 1 year would just be negligent,

    Finally

    Create a relation ship with your tradesmen, they are people, pay them on time show them respect and they will look after you.( maybe a beer or 2 wouldn't hurt either ) And they can become a very important member of your investing team

    Thanks

    Nicko

    Profile photo of millionsmillions
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    It's interesting to hear people's perceptions.  My husband's an industrial plumber and we gladly pay a plumber or electrician for their work on our rentals and consider it good value.

    Profile photo of Easy Beach ShowerEasy Beach Shower
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    Plumbing apprenticeships are now 4 years with regular training throughout PLUS another 2 year business training from this year.

    I used to know Plumbers who took advantage of people, but they are a dying breed. Plumbers and their clients are people who need to show each other respect. Bad plumbers do not have many plumbers as friends.

    Sometimes the most expensive plumber is not your best bet. On the other hand when a property owner leaves all plumbing until it is broken then they will usually have to consider replacing the complete fixture.

    Regular property maintenance will keep your plumbing problems on a small scale, last minute or no maintenance at all will make your plumbing problems major and expensive.

    It is up to the property owner to learn how to deal with plumbers. Plumbers are people with skills in demand.

    I know plumbers who work to their own value and also allow themselves room to charge people what they can afford. This comes from a willingness to build partnerships.

    I wonder if the above WHINGER gives anyone a great experience in any part of his life.

    Tara30
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    Hi All,

    Firstly I would like to say I have nothing against Tradesman, I have them in my family and would be using them If they lived in same State as me.

    Before we moved into our house in Melbourne we decided to get it painted. Having only just moved to VIC & not knowing anyone local we rang one of those "Trademan you can Trust" in SE Suburbs (can't remember exactly which company as it was 4 years ago), whereby they give you 3 Tradesman to call for a quote.
    They all drove way over an hour to come and give me a quote and were really really desperate for the work. I ended up using the 3rd Painter as his Van & equipment was in the best condition (still not that great) although I was still really hesitant. (you don't want to know what the others turned up in – )
    Although he used drop sheet's I still found paint spatters in various places, taps, handles, inside the bath and there were heaps of paint runs and places he totally missed.
    He said if anything was missed he would come back, but our tenancy had expired and we had to move in & I didn't want him touching up paintwork around my furniture – or even back in my house.
    Has anyone had any positive/neg experiences with these companies? I found the whole experience very dodgy.
    Tara
    Profile photo of solomons_wealthsolomons_wealth
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    Hi,

    I thought that I would bring some prospective to the mix… I happen to be a tradie as well as an investor.

    If being a tradie is that easy and doesn't need a full apprenticeship, how come you didn't go and change the sistern yourself ??

    I agree fully with duckster. The university push has created a huge shortage in trades. My dad is a tiler… booked 4 months

    ahead, I am a bathroom renovator / plumber booked up 3 months ahead.

    If you want the prompt service of a professional tradesman, be prepared to pay the cost, or learn to do a few things yourself, and

    fix it. I don't mean to sound harsh and understand what you mean about the handyman side of things, but if you push, supply

    and demand will win and handy men will end up with the same high rates. (Its already happening).

    Luke

    Profile photo of rusty rotarusty rota
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    Hi
    I agree with nicko's comment…..
    Create a relation ship with your tradesmen, they are people, pay them on time show them respect and they will look after you.( maybe a beer or 2 wouldn't hurt either ) And they can become a very important member of your investing team

    Form relationships with tradies as when required as they become useful member of your team and I would consider the bigger picture when you have accumulated wealth say in 10 years time. If can get by without undertaking expensive repairs can also be an viable option. You need to consider minimizing expenses. If the tenant is not asking for anything leave it alone!

    Profile photo of srobinssrobins
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    The university push has created a huge shortage in trades. My dad is a tiler… booked 4 months ahead, I am a bathroom renovator / plumber booked up 3 months ahead. If you want the prompt service of a professional tradesman, be prepared to pay the cost, or learn to do a few things yourself, and fix it.

    I agree you should be able to do it yourself. Legally, you can't change a tap washer in this country unless you're a licensed plumber. If I need a small amount of work done, I *have* to call a plumber/electrician – to do something simple like change a washer or install a new GPO. And because it's a small job, most trades overquote because of the size of the job.

    I think the law should be changed to allow small plumbing & electrical work to be carried out by the owner on their own house.  This could be defined as simply replacing existing plumbing or electrical work. You can 'do it yourself' in almost any other country in the world.. In the UK they have wiring diagrams included with all electrical sockets sold. I've changed my fair share of sockets while living overseas, but suddenly when I set foot in Australia I have to call an electrician to do that because it's too dangerous.

    And if the UK is anything to go by, allowing people to do it yourself won't affect the tradie's workload.. the professional still gets to do the big jobs which he prefers and the home hadyman doesn't have to pay $250 to get a new GPO installed (yes, that's what I paid).

    Profile photo of MillyMilly
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    Nikko7 states: Create a relation ship with your tradesmen, they are people, pay them on time show them respect and they will look after you.( maybe a beer or 2 wouldn't hurt either ) And they can become a very important member of your investing team

    But I shouldn't HAVE to create a relationship with these guys.  I shouldn't have to buy them a ruddy beer. Why do they have to have the attitude that they are doing you a magnificent favour and you should be humbly grateful.  They provide a service, I pay. It should be cut and dry. I should be able to phone 5 electricians and the price should be the same.  And as for bumping the price up cos I'm a cranky cow…….that is totally unprofessional.

    In saying all that above…….I DO bend over backwards to tradies. I DO make them cups of tea and biscuits. I chat to them, build a rapport, ensuring they like me.  thing is tho that I SHOULDN'T have to to ensure a fair pay for a fair job.

    Profile photo of Easy Beach ShowerEasy Beach Shower
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    I am a Tradesman and a Uni Graduate with a milion other training courses to boot with good investor experience and bad investor experiences.

    Is England a different voltage to Australia for Electiricity?

    Tradesman also do higher volumes of work so if you want to spend all day working or getting a tradie to do a quick and better job then you need to look at your own value.

    Is one hours work from a tradesman worth 3 hours of your time on this planet.

    The skill level and time effectiveness far outway the benefits of your valuable personal time.

    It is all relative.

    One of most common comments from my clients is: 'That was quick; it is amazing to see the same work done better and quicker then I can do it'.

    I wonder what other professions get the same demand jealousy?

    Finally for Plumbing. I have travelled and visited some beautiful 3rd world countries and all they really need is a couple of public policy  things to be like us.
    1 – Good electricity.
    2 – Garbage collection and waste management
    3-  Sanitary systems
    4 – Water control and service systems

    So the people who are taking Electricians, Plumbers, Waste Managers and other important parts of a civilised community need to breathe and open their eyes as to the importance of systems.

    You have an investor system so how is a system of protected trades designed for public health any different?
     
    Thank you.

    Profile photo of blogsblogs
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    Milly wrote:

    But I shouldn't HAVE to create a relationship with these guys.  I shouldn't have to buy them a ruddy beer. Why do they have to have the attitude that they are doing you a magnificent favour and you should be humbly grateful.  They provide a service, I pay. It should be cut and dry. I should be able to phone 5 electricians and the price should be the same.  And as for bumping the price up cos I'm a cranky cow…….that is totally unprofessional.

    In saying all that above…….I DO bend over backwards to tradies. I DO make them cups of tea and biscuits. I chat to them, build a rapport, ensuring they like me.  thing is tho that I SHOULDN'T have to to ensure a fair pay for a fair job.

    Ive been biting my tongue trying not to get in on this one…but Mily you are DEAD RIGHT!!!!! I two am sick to death of tradie making me feel as if they are doing ME a favour by doing a job for which I am paying them top dollar-its an absolut joke. I wonder how they would like it if the next time they go to an accountant, a doctor or hell even the local supermarket and get charged more becasue the checkout chick felt they were MIGHT be a 'trouble customer' lol or the accontant charge em more becasue the didnt bring in a 6 pack of beer, or some wine or some cookies bwhahahaha these guys are so deluded its not funny. Or how about them making an appointment with an accountant with the reply being 'sure come into the office-I should be in between 9 and 12 o'clock' lol I cant wait for labour to get in power, increase immagration and have a heap of competition drive down these jokers wages…..

    Oh BTW for everyone who remembers me being glad to finaly find what I thought was finally a good tradie..I should have known better-he was a painter BTW, well after 5..yes thats right 5 bloody inspections where I had to have him come back for TOTALLY missing areas I gave up and got the paint brush out and finished it myself. Not to mention having to get the turps out myself to clean off all the over paint he got on my tiles, shower, kitchen, windows and even floors!!! But I shouldnt complain, after all I was paying him only $300 csh a day and he was doing me a favour by letting me pay him huh, and I did give him some beers at the start trying to be mister nice guy, what a joke-lets call it 6 times bitten, now foerever shy!!!!!

    Profile photo of millionsmillions
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    I think all this whinging about tradies is pretty pointless.  Couldn't we all just bag every profession!

    I saw a solicitor that was charging me $350/hour.  After my first appointment with him I received a letter that was a summary about what we had discussed.  There were heaps of mistakes in the letter and it also didn't even make sense.

    I was prescribed some medication by a specialist doctor who was probably charging about $400 an hour.  I was assured it was safe to use.  After six months I receive a letter saying to stop taking the medication immediately as it may cause liver damage.

    Give tradies a break, they're just doing their job.  They tend to have a different culture where favours are sometimes paid with beers….who cares.

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