All Topics / Help Needed! / Help with a tenant

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  • Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 19

    Hi,

    One of my friends rented a house to a couple a few months ago and it's a 2 bedroom house. They have moved in another person with them although the lease agreement says only 2 people can live on the premises.

    1) This seems like a breach of lease agreement but how to prove it? Right now the only information source is the neighbors.
    2) He has already finished his quote of 4 inspections in 12 months and he can,t inspect the premises to prove that more than 2 people were living there.
    3) He has spoken to his real estate agent and the the agent says that proving that they have sublet the house or a room in the house is not possible because most people just rent out a room or two without a formal lease and it's not subletting in that case.

    Any ideas on how this can be pursued if at all.

    Thanks

    Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 19

    Any help will be appreciated, Thanks

    Profile photo of blogsblogs
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    @blogs
    Join Date: 2005
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    What does it really matter at the end of the day?

    Profile photo of BrainyAUBrainyAU
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    @brainyau
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    Post Count: 3

    sublet is a separate contract and it shouldn't be against the main one

    Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
    Join Date: 2007
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    blogs wrote:
    What does it really matter at the end of the day?

    Yes to him it does matter. He doesn't like them anyways and want to use this excuse for eviction.

    Irrespective of morality of his action, is it possible?? and how??

    Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
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    BrainyAU wrote:
    sublet is a separate contract and it shouldn't be against the main one

    They don't have a sublet contract – its just someone living with them. Thanks

    Profile photo of NellNell
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    @nell
    Join Date: 2007
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    I had a similar thing happen to me. I was advised by the manager of the estate, that the couple who rent the townhouse I own, had moved another woman and her children in. The tenants said they were just visiting, but my manager was concerned – so he called me. I then wrote a stern letter to the manager, asking him to inform my tenants that they were in breach of their contract, and had not asked permission for this woman to move in. It seemed to scare the tenants a little, and they moved their guests out . Maybe you could do the same. Hope it goes well!…Nell

    Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
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    Nell wrote:
    I had a similar thing happen to me. I was advised by the manager of the estate, that the couple who rent the townhouse I own, had moved another woman and her children in. The tenants said they were just visiting, but my manager was concerned – so he called me. I then wrote a stern letter to the manager, asking him to inform my tenants that they were in breach of their contract, and had not asked permission for this woman to move in. It seemed to scare the tenants a little, and they moved their guests out . Maybe you could do the same. Hope it goes well!…Nell

    That has been done to no avail. They know a lot about laws and rules and have consulted Fair Trading as well.

    Unless it can be proved that they have a 3rd person living on the premises, nothing can be done.

    So how to prove that??

    Profile photo of Tysonboss1Tysonboss1
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    @tysonboss1
    Join Date: 2007
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    It wouldn't bother me, but I would increase the rent and add the new tenant at the renewal of lease,

    why doesn't the land lord like the tenant, if they are causing other problem evict them for that reason, otherwise honour the lease as you would expect the tenant to honour it.

    I can't stand land lords on a power trip,

    Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
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    Tysonboss1 wrote:
    It wouldn't bother me, but I would increase the rent and add the new tenant at the renewal of lease,

    why doesn't the land lord like the tenant, if they are causing other problem evict them for that reason, otherwise honour the lease as you would expect the tenant to honour it.

    I can't stand land lords on a power trip,

    The rent was increased a couple of months ago already.

    It's the agent who had an issue with the tenant and agent is managing another 5-6 properties of my friend and now he has to sacrifice the tenant to save the relationship with agent.

    We have been told that there is no way to prove that more people are actually living in the premises and privacy laws and other issues can as well kick in.

    Any opinions??

    Profile photo of NucopiaNucopia
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    @nucopia
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    Post Count: 102

    you say the couple have only been in a few months , then later that 4 inspections have been made in 12 months
    ???
    if you want some one to inspect get your agent friend to give them notice that
     the house is being sold and they will need to allow potential buyers access to inspect the property.
    than if they agree have some one you trust do the inspection and find out how many people actualy live there.
    mention complience will insure the new owner keeps the rent at the current amount so its in their best interest to be
    co-operative etc
    apart from this wait for the lease to expire and  serve them notice to quit

    as long as your friend gets the rent on time why worry about 1 extra person  ?

    Profile photo of CallanderCallander
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    @callander
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    It's the agent who had an issue with the tenant and agent is managing another 5-6 properties of my friend and now he has to sacrifice the tenant to save the relationship with agent.

    Sacrifice the tenant to save the relationship with agent????? it just goes with the job as a property manager that at times you will have issues with people, being both tenants and landlords (personality clashes ect). bottom line is, is the tenant paying their rent and looking after the property? if so then as an agent you just have to deal with it and act in the best interest of the Landlord.

    Profile photo of kmb11kmb11
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    @kmb11
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    Hi guys,

    In actual, my friend is not the landlord but they are the tenants and I just wanted to get a different perspective on the situation.

    Now the facts are:

    1) The rent has been paid to the landlord well in time regularly for last 8 months.
    2) They have never kept a 3rd person on a regular or commercial basis but a friend stayed with them and landlord was aware of that and had no issue with that all so far.
    3) They requested for a repair for a few times which was never made by the owner.
    4) They seem to have a personality clash with the agent and in the past, and didn't get well with her at all.

    What do you think they should do to avoid harassment by the agent?

    Profile photo of Tysonboss1Tysonboss1
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    @tysonboss1
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 306

    If they have been paying rent on time, I can't see how the agent can harass them  or do anything to them, I own investment properties but I am also a tenant and I must say that the only contact I ever had from agents as a tenant was the occassion where we forgot to pay our rent on time, or when we had to sign a new lease,

    The biggest thing that will annoy a land lord is late rent payments, property damage or to many maintance calls, so as long as this is not the case I can't see the problem,

    Profile photo of annianni
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    @anni
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    Tysonboss1 wrote:
    If they have been paying rent on time, I can't see how the agent can harass them  or do anything to them, I own investment properties but I am also a tenant and I must say that the only contact I ever had from agents as a tenant was the occassion where we forgot to pay our rent on time, or when we had to sign a new lease,

    The biggest thing that will annoy a land lord is late rent payments, property damage or to many maintance calls, so as long as this is not the case I can't see the problem,

    I am also a landlord & a tenant – & it baffles me that too many maintenance calls would be annoying to a landlord – if there is a problem with my property/investment I want to know about it & the only way to find out is to have the tenant contact the property manager.  Isn't it then the job of the property manager to access the property & assess what action needs to be taken?   We have an older investment property & went into it pretty much thinking there would be maintenance issues which would  (& have) come up.   I wouldn't expect such regular maintenance on a new property though. (?)

    However, our experience as a tenant in an older property has been appalling – 4 property managers & 2 changes of real estates in 2 years of tenancy.   Continual problems with electrics in the house (fuses blow if kettle & washer on at same time!!), repairs not made when water bore & heat lamp in bathroom stopped working & worst one of all – my husband had to clear the blocked toilet (well blocked isn't exactly the word for "you know what" all over the back patio because the property manager just couldn't find a plumber – & to my mind it has come down to the property manager(s) – just not interested in following up maintenance requests & having a "you're just a tenant" attitude.

    It's further backed up by the experiences with our IP – The  tenants in our IP are continuously late with their rent – & seem to just get enough money into the property manager to stop the eviction process – according to the property manager.  I have to wonder if the property manager isn't interested in the paperwork etc involved in the court proceedings?

    We are just trying to hang in there til the end of the year when we can get out of this property & back to our property! – & start our investing plan on a bigger scale – but with a lot more insight & understanding of this property investment business – given the recent experiences as a tenant & landlord with just one property!  What on earth will it be like with even more properties???!!!  we'll be very careful re who manages our future properties.

    But, to get back to the thread – your friends need to keep very good written records of all contacts with the property manager – not only does this just make good sense anyway, info will be available to them if needed in the future should disputes arise & court action be taken (either by them or the landlord).
    Hope it works out well for them,
    Anni

    Profile photo of Tysonboss1Tysonboss1
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    @tysonboss1
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    anni wrote:
    [

    I am also a landlord & a tenant – & it baffles me that too many maintenance calls would be annoying to a landlord – if there is a problem with my property/investment I want to know about it & the only way to find out is to have the tenant contact the property manager.  Anni[/quote]

    Yes anni,

    I don't mind maintence calls, But what I am talking about is excessive maintance calls for things that the tenant should take care of his/her self.

    I had one tenant on a 6mth lease ( needless to say I did not renew her lease).

    who in the space of 2 mths requested,

    1. a pest control expert to kill a small wasp nest in a tree in the back yard, luckly the property manager attended to situation with a can of fly spray and saved me over a hundred dollars

    2. a plummer to check the toilet as sometimes she could here a dripping noise when it filled, plummer attended said every thing was fine sometimes toilets make dripping noises

    3. requested a electricition to check the wiring as here light bulbs were blowing regularly, when the electriction got there she informed him that it had been a different light bulb blow each time, electricion informed her that every thing seemed fine and that light bulbs don't last for ever.

    4. complained that the external speaker system on the patio was faulty and as it was part of the reason she selected our property she insisted it be fixed immediatly, professial shows up to fix it, turns out here sterio was wired wrong,

    5.door on cupbord came loose, property manager used butter knife to screw it back on.

    and the list goes on and on and on, if there was somthing she could complain about she did, unfortunatly because I was living in sydney and the property was in brisbane it cost me alot of money to costant call outs from trades men, luckily I knew the property manager personal so he attended to alot of the minor little compliants personal rather than always calling tradesmen.

    Profile photo of annianni
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    @anni
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    Wow Tysonboss1 – I get your point!    Thanks for your further info – sounds like you have a fantastic property manager & a 6 month lease was very beneficial to that situation.  I'd really value your feedback on the thread I posted re how to find a property manager – we've only had 1 IP so far, so any & all direction will be very helpful to us.  (Our property is also interstate – currently until we move back!)
    Anni

    Profile photo of NucopiaNucopia
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    @nucopia
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    Lol
    I also had a tenat that complained of problems with the kitchen taps..  among other minor and very trivial  complaints !
     it turned out the rubber washer needed replacing   $3 washer and plummer to replace it..   total bill $110 
    I was not impressed. with the tenant or the agent for that one..
    I have had hot water systems blow in the past and they get replaced asap but from now on washes get bought and the agent sends the handy man to fix it ! cost now ?  about $15 all in all.
    tenants and agents can turn a positive cash flow Ip into a negative cash flow Ip if you dont lay down the rules of engagement from day 1..

    Profile photo of NellNell
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    @nell
    Join Date: 2007
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    I get that you want to help your friends, but I don't understand why tenants think they should have all the rights. I also used to rent, and realized I was living in someone else's house. You pay rent to live in a place – that doesn't mean it's yours. I wouldn't like someone I hadn't checked out living in one of my rental properties,which is why we do the checks before we sign an agreement. Just my view!

    Profile photo of mum2fivemum2five
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    @mum2five
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    There is also the fact that with this person not being on the lease, if they damage anything, the freinds that have the lease  are the ones who will be liable. Not saying that will happen, but sometimes accidents happen, or people you thought were nice turn violent and punch holes in walls etc…..just something to think about for them! Nell makes a very valid point also, for all the landlord knows, this person may have been evicted from a previous place for any number of reasons etc….

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