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  • Profile photo of george1955george1955
    Member
    @george1955
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 12

    Good Morning, -need help!!
    I happened to be on a television show a few years back, they ran a strory on me and my property investment portfolio. After this was ran i was swamped with people that wanted my help or advice. I met one man who came to me & wanted to do a Joint Venture. i agreed & a contract was drawn up where profits or losses were split 50/50. We both live in Cairns, we decided to do a full home renovation. He said he was cashed up & ready to do it, the renovation we did went bad, the budget blew. it ran a few months over time and the market fell. mY JV Partner ( who was the money partner) had plenty of money left to him from an inheritance, during the Project he spent most of his inheritance on other business and rental properties leaving no money to finish the renovations or for holding costs in our JV, so i helped out & paid about $30,000 to help complete, the house was finished & on the market, it looked great. Even though the budget was blown my $30,000 was the amount it blew by. Anyway, my investor got into financial hot water, the business he bought was not going as planned and he was out of cash. My investor sold the renovated house without my permission for $150,000 less than we first initially anticipated, he had to do this becuase the banks were close to foreclosing. During the time of the JV me and the investor became good mates we would paint together, and pretty much did as much as we could to the house to save money. we surfed together & our families hung out, our children became friends also. Cause he sold the house $150,000 lower than our anticipated asking price it incurred a loss. of about $100,000, the day it settled his solicitor sent me a letter saying that it was my fault, i mislead this investor, i was negligent , i had broken the trades practises act & the only reason the investor bought the house was because we were going to make about $50,000, i was shocked to get this letter becuase i thought we were friends i tried to call him, fax him email but he will not talk to me, all correspondance must go through his solicitor. ( so he tells me) I have offered to pay my part of the loss (50%) but he is sueing me for the whole loss PLUS the profits he would have got if we sold it at the asking price.This is causing me and my family severe stress, any help or advice would be welcome, i have a good litigation solicitor and i am ready for anything. Even though it was not my fault that he ran out of money i accept my responsibility in entering the JV and am willing to pay my 50%. Please note that he was an active investor, no purchases including the house were made without consulting each other, the house also was in his name. PLEASE HELP ANY ADVICE WORDS OF WISDOM OR ANYTHING WOULD BE GREAT!!! PS I do not do JV’S for a living this one was my first!!

    Profile photo of WylieWylie
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    @wylie
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 346

    What a scary story.

    Could you counter sue him for selling the house so far under value?

    I have changed my original post after re-reading your story and reading gross’s post (below) which is really comprehensive and impressive.

    I really hope things turn out.. As far as the stress is concerned, is it too late to transfer your assets to your wife, just a thought, or would that be disallowed because of the circumstances.

    Good luck, and make sure your lawyer is on the ball.

    Wylie.

    Profile photo of oziozi
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    @ozi
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 262

    Hi George,

    Sorry to hear of your misfortune. If you haven’t already done so, I would suggest you get yourself a good lawyer!

    Regards,
    Ozi

    Profile photo of grossrealisationgrossrealisation
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    @grossrealisation
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,031

    hi
    this is not a place to answer these types of questions as it is asking not only the lenght of a piece of string but if its shorter the who cut it.
    but here is the best I can give.
    in red
    Good Morning, -need help!!
    I happened to be on a television show a few years back, they ran a strory on me and my property investment portfolio. After this was ran i was swamped with people that wanted my help or advice. I met one man who came to me & wanted to do a Joint Venture. i agreed & a contract was drawn up( this is the most inportant you must read this document and you legal will check it should have been done by a legal) where profits or losses were split 50/50 is this in that agreement. We both live in Cairns, we decided to do a full home renovation. He said he was cashed up & ready to do it, the renovation we did went bad who was doing the accounts and who was getting the quotes and who budjeted the project, the budget blew. it ran a few months over time again who was in charge you or him and the market fell. mY JV Partner ( who was the money partner) had plenty of money left to him from an inheritance, during the Project he spent most of his inheritance on other business and rental properties leaving no money to finish the renovations or for holding costs in our JV, so i helped out & paid about $30,000 to help complete was this a formalised loan to the jv company or group was paperwork drawn up I hope so, the house was finished & on the market, it looked great irrelavent. Even though the budget was blown my $30,000 was the amount it blew by. Anyway, my investor got into financial hot water, the business he bought was not going as planned and he was out of cash. My investor sold the renovated house without my permission for $150,000 less than we first initially anticipated how did he sell the house can you get a copy of the sales contract from the real estate or selling agent and a list of the people that went thru the house if the house was joint owned you should, if as you say latter on that the house was in his name then you may not get this info but will come to that later, he had to do this becuase the banks were close to foreclosing do you have any of this correspondance keep copies. During the time of the JV me and the investor became good mates( there is no mates in business there are partners that are aiming on a single goal if these don’t happen then you get what you have now friend and foe) we would paint together, and pretty much did as much as we could to the house to save money. we surfed together & our families hung out, our children became friends also. Cause he sold the house $150,000 lower than our anticipated asking price it incurred a loss. of about $100,000, the day it settled his solicitor ( did you have separtate legal advice and or was this the same solicitor that drew up the jv agreement if it was then he is your legal solicitor as well and to tell you if a loss is iminent) sent me a letter saying that it was my fault, i mislead this investor, i was negligent , i had broken the trades practises act & the only reason the investor bought the house was because we were going to make about $50,000 again that letter is very important for your legals to work on, i was shocked to get this letter becuase i thought we were friends i tried to call him forget him and work on the legalities of your understanding and your agreements, fax him email but he will not talk to me, all correspondance must go through his solicitor about 150.00 this is right and should happen once you have the strong grounds which I think you have
    then and only then contact him but this time tell his solicitor that you want him to contact you and go and buy a portable mp3 player and record all correspondance in this matter and when talking to his solicitor tell him that you are recording you calls and leave the rest to your legals
    . ( so he tells me) I have offered to pay my part of the loss offer nothing do this only thru your legals I would be doing the opposite and sueing for your losses and mediating solution (50%) but he is sueing me for the whole loss PLUS the profits he would have got if we sold it at the asking price only after you have the adove information can you work out who and why the loss happened and if its a case of s–t happens then s–t hapeens and it depends what is in that jv contract.This is causing me and my family severe stress don’t stress this is business and even thro lots of people think its easy business isn’t make sure you pay nothing and offer nothing unless your legal tells you and even then if itsw a large amunt ad that 50k check with another legal to make sure it might cost you 3k but its a saving, any help or advice would be welcome, i have a good litigation solicitor and i am ready for anything. Even though it was not my fault that he ran out of money i accept my responsibility in entering the JV and am willing to pay my 50% strike this out put a sunset clause in place that if this deal is not mediated by 2 days that offer is off the table you need to get rid of that offer and put the cost to him and then mediate back to 50/ 50 if thats in that jv contract. Please note that he was an active investor, no purchases including the house were made without consulting each other need to document who made the call and who ordered the stuff and was anything in writing in future these costs need to be done by and accountant it put a third party in place and indipendant person and they will say who was calling the shots, the house also was in his name you need to do a title search and get as much info on this house as you can if the hous was purchased in his name as you say your legals will work on this as you are the investor not him . PLEASE HELP ANY ADVICE WORDS OF WISDOM OR ANYTHING WOULD BE GREAT!!! PS I do not do JV’S for a living I do
    this one was my first!!
    my advice is get a legal that you can work with buy the mp3 and sit down with a big pad know and write as much information about what was agreed to go into this venture and you legal will tell you what type of information he wants.
    from my looking at it and this is the string and its lenght I think if the jv was done as it should have been and was draw up by a legal and it is as per your above you are not on quick sand here but he is and I would be hitting him for full losses plus you potential loss in profits and remember there is no friends in business there are people you like or you work for a common goal and even some you don’t like and would not sit in the same pub but you still work to get the goal you want but not friends.
    my .002

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    Profile photo of mathewc73mathewc73
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    @mathewc73
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 241

    It sounds like you have done everything you should to try and reconcile the matter. This could cost you a lot of money and a lot of time from now until it is settled. So I guess, even though you think you are right, you can perhaps suggest a mediation service where a third party will help all parties through. Or you can take it to court. But it sounds like even if you win, the other guy has no money. so what would be the point?

    Profile photo of george1955george1955
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    @george1955
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 12

    The JV Contract was written by a good well known lawyer, it is really clear and it states that there will be no promises made in regards to current value of house future value, expenses etc… We had a dual bank account we both got quotes by I got the most and I did the ordering, the money I lent him was not formalized (my downfall) The house was not joint owned, he owned it. The JV says he needs my written permission to sell, which he never got or asked for, he sent me emails saying, I must sell now and quickly I am not happy with the price but will stop the banks beating down my door. I am only offering him half the money now to relive my stress, but don’t know really what else to do, my solicitor is still reviewing the case and will advise me shortly

    Profile photo of catacata
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    @cata
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 559

    Keep your cool George.
    It sounds like the litigant is trying to make you sweat. The best thing you can do now is wait for your legal advice.

    As much as everyone here is willing to help, and there is some qualified people here, no one here has the knowledge of your case except your legal team.

    It souns to me like you have done nothing wrong except been taken by a gold digging scumbag. The downside to public life.

    Hope it all works out well.

    CATA
    Asset Protection Specialist
    [email protected]

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544
    Originally posted by george1955:

    I am only offering him half the money now

    No – wait until you receive legal advice.

    An ‘offer’, even of part payment may be seen as acknowledgement of liability. This needs to be determined first.

    I will also add that all communications to you from this person should be through your advisor. You may be surprised how innocent written or verbal comments you may make can come back and bite you.

    Finally, take on board Cata’s comments.

    Derek
    [email protected]
    http://www.mononpoly.tic.com.au
    0409 882 958
    Skype – derekjones2113

    Profile photo of george1955george1955
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    @george1955
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks for everyones comments, it is ashame, i have spent so much time and money helping young investors get into the game, i just did not think some one would try to stich me up, Although i accept full responsibilty for what happens to me in my life sometimes you come accross massive hurdles!!

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544
    Originally posted by george1955:

    Although i accept full responsibilty for what happens to me in my life

    It seems you have – the other party hasn’t.

    Derek
    [email protected]
    http://www.mononpoly.tic.com.au
    0409 882 958
    Skype – derekjones2113

    Profile photo of grossrealisationgrossrealisation
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    @grossrealisation
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,031

    hi george1955
    yes derek is right hence you need to sunset clause your offer re the percentage of liability
    you need to relay every thing thru your legals and if they do talk to you mp3 it or right down all that was said
    and then relay that thru to your legals. don’t sign or agree to anything unless they say so tahts what you are paying them for.
    as for sweat there will always be lots of that you do need to play this whole thing very cool at this stage you have done nothing wrong so why stress.
    only stress when your legals tell you not theres.
    hang on in there and rely on your team get them to hit him hard and then they will if need be organise to mediate.
    I hit first then mediate with my legals help and then if that doesn’t work hit again with the legals.
    but try not to admit anything, give anything, sign anything, without there agreeing to you doing it.
    any sign that you are agreeing to anything is an indication that other gain a foot hold and don’t give them an inch and if possible knock them back a mile.
    my reading has not changed and I think you are on solid ground so don’t give an inch unless your legal tell you to give this to gain that.
    hope to hear good new from you soon that this has been cleared up.

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    Profile photo of drgraemedrgraeme
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    @drgraeme
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    That’s really sad. I was listening to a great CD the other day by Rob Balanda of http://www.clausesmadesimple.com In hind sight how easy would it have to pay a few dollars for his Joint Ventures kit and found out that the partner who hasn’t got his/her name on the title should protect his/herself by logding a caveat on the title. The partner then could not have sold it :-(

    Profile photo of grossrealisationgrossrealisation
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    @grossrealisation
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,031

    hi drgraeme
    I don’t want to go off the track with this thread as he needs all the help he can get.
    but you can’t just put a caveat on for any reason ( alot of people have and they ca get struck out just as quick and there are very heft penalties for putting a caveat on for the wrong reasons.)
    to put a caveat on you must be able to show that you a financial interest in the property so you do need to have physically lent the money to an entity and had it documented( hense I said was the loan documented to the entity and then if it was yes you could have put a caveat but this would have done no use anyway as jv parnters in normal coarse would lift it to sell it)
    a caveat is good if you are lending to an external party or entity and you need to put a 2nd registered mortgage in place to allow it to stand against a legal or they will get you to remove and hit you with the penalties.
    have a look at caveatlending.com
    this isn’t the post to explain caveats.
    hind sight is a wounderful thing and I would love to be able to win a couple of kilo’s of hind sight
    then who wants to be millionaire.
    but both I won’t win
    but if I had hind sight??
    well then just maybe

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    Profile photo of george1955george1955
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    @george1955
    Join Date: 2006
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    Yeh,
    I asked him to sign a letter confirming that he would repay the money i lent him on settlement, it is then his solicitor sent me a nasty letter saying they intend to sue after settlement, i put a caveat on the JV house cause i had a caveatable interest in it, but it all got a bit stressfull, so i lifted the caveat so he could settle, we agreed that the money owed would be deposited into his solicitors trust fund account for us to arge over after settlement? Sounds crazy but i di not want to be responsible for bankrupting him, which probably would have happend if i stuck with the caveat – maybe i am to nice??

    Profile photo of fbd1fbd1
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    @fbd1
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 65

    Hi George,
    Just wanted to say that things happen for a reason…Hang in there. All will turn out for the best. I agree with Gross Realisation. He is more informed than many of us, so take his advice. Let us all know how things work out.
    Cheers.
    Dianne Burns

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086
    to put a caveat on you must be able to show that you a financial interest in the property so you do need to have physically lent the money to an entity and had it documented( hense I said was the loan documented to the entity and then if it was yes you could have put a caveat but this would have done no use anyway as jv parnters in normal coarse would lift it to sell it)

    Hi all – not a nice situation and a good warning for us all. Perhaps people who receive money from a windfall may not be the best people to invest with. easy come easy go so to speak. It is not as if this JV partner had worked diligently to build up funds that were going into the jv. It seems like it came quickly and fingers were in too many pies.

    Gross – i reckon the jv agreement depending on how drafted of course may be sufficient for this person to have lodged a caveat over the property without the non financial partner chipping in cash as well. Just a thought and it does not help much now.

    Does the JV agreement cover dispute resolution. eg have you specifically spelt out that mediation would be the first step, or have you appointed a mediator in the event of a dispute. Who was going to audit the accounts etc.

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    Profile photo of george1955george1955
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    @george1955
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 12

    I did have a caveatable interest without lending him the money, the JV contract was very clear about that, the JV is also really clear about dispute resolution, it has a entire page about the steps to take, it starts with mediation and says pretty much that court proceddings can only commence if mediation does not work out, however this guy has just elected to go straight to court and has served the papers. it says in the JV how to choose a mediator and that the mediators decision will be final and binding! It ias a really good JV contract he has broken quite a few conditions in it, i have broken none, he refers back to the JV contract when it suits him, when it dosent he trys to tell me i have broken the managed funds act, ( we proved that this was not the case ) now he is saying i have broken the trades practises act etc…

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi George

    Thanks for sharing this with us. It just shows what can happen to people – even if careful.

    But don’t worry too much. This is probably just a bluff. It is easy to send out a letter to scare someone. Some people would be so worried they pay up.

    Just because you have received a letter doesn’t mean that you will be sued. And even if you are sued, what are the chances of them winning? You have set yourself up with a JV contract, drawn up by a solicitor. You have a good start. The other party doesn’t have much to go on. Some alleged promises to make a profit. It won’t stand up in court.

    Have they lodged documents at court, like a statement of claim yet? If not, then nothing to worry about (yet). Even if they do, you can file a defence, or even countersue them.

    I could go out tomorrow and lodge legal documents to sue you (if I knew your name). You can sue anyone. But that doesn’t mean it will pass the first round at court.

    I suggest you relax, and just get some good legal advice.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of george1955george1955
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    @george1955
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 12

    Thanks Terry,
    Even though i know in my heart i am right in what i have done, i was going to offer him half the losses just to end the matter, after reading everyones posts it has given me strength to fight on and not hand over a cent unless my solicitor advises me to, thank you to all, the journey continues.

    You are all champions thank you for your support and encouragment.

    Profile photo of Luke TaylorLuke Taylor
    Participant
    @world-changer
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 415

    You have nothing to feel bad about George.
    It appears that u are the partner with the Integrity.
    Definately let the solicitors deal with it.People like this guy you dealt with, need to learn a lesson about life and business.Its not always the best thing just to file papers to sue,and consider yrself the only victim.
    It sounds like u would have even covered half the loss even after he “fire sale’d it”. Pretty generous in my book.

    Stand strong man,and dont take it personally.It was his choice to resolve it this way .

    Let us know how it goes

    all the best
    Luke

    We’ve got 70 yrs on planet earth,Lets make the most of every day!

    Luke Taylor | Hope Property Investing
    http://hopepropertyinvesting.com
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