Hey everyone,
I just got my first accountant about 2 months ago and im feeling a bit ripped off. I just found out yesterday that they charge me for conversations and advice i ask on the phone. Or if i ask for explainations or whatever. Is this normal?
Also i just got him to do my tax return and didnt feel like he really tried that hard to get me the best possible tax return. I orginally went there for the CPA because i was refered to him but i have been passe down to the non-CPA for my tax issues.
Its a bit late to do anything now for this years tax return but does anyone no anyone who isnt so tight and is a CPA who knows the best ways for tax and investing etc in Perth. And if i ask for a particular person will be served by that person and not passed to someone else.
Maybe all this ios the norm. Please enlighten.
Regards
Mspartal
Yes this is normal. Accountants just like Solicitors and other professionals charge a set rate per hour and this is scaled depending on how experienced you are. Accountants must complete daily time sheets (boring !) to allocate their time during the day, and usually at least 80% of the day must be charged to clients. A Partner can command fees of around $200 per hour and usually interview clients and deal with complicated tax issues. A Manager will be on a lower rate, possibly $120 per hour and the “tax workers” lower again, perhaps around $90 per hour.
To keep the costs down work is usually passed down the line but the Partner is ultimately responsible. The Partner could still do your tax return at $200 per hour but its much cheaper to allow the “tax worker” to do the same job.Amanda
“It is better to be inconspicuously wealthy, than to be ostentatiously poor…”Cheers Amanda for that
Good informationBeing a former accountant I can confirm that what was said above is true. Each hour is worth 10 units so effectively we charged in 6 minute blocks! So if you called a partner for say 12 minutes on a chargeout rate of $250p/h the call can cost $50. It can depend on the questions you ask and even the mood of the accountant whether it goes on the clock. Something to be aware of though. If the question is easier and you feel a more junior accountant could answer ask to speak to them instead! Better to pay $90p/h for the same answer. It is part of the game I suppose just be aware and accept this is a cost.
Being a former accountant……….It is part of the game I suppose just be aware and accept this is a cost.Part of the game hey ?? Just accept it hey ??
I’d hazard a guess that mspartal has posted their question because something doesn’t quite sit right and they don’t want to accept it. That internal feeling mspartal is talking to you strongly, I’d listen to it…..and definitely not “just accept it”.
Keep searching for an accountant that you feel is doing the right thing by you, you obviously aren’t in that position now.
Six minute blocks indeed. I wonder which clever little sausage originally came up with that wondrous concept…..no doubt some American lawyer….sorry, Managing Partner….way back when in the 30’s……how inventive and prestigous. Where do I sign up for that type of treatment ??
Mspartal, if you don’t have an extremely complex financial arrangement, I’d be taking your return to the local H&R Block rep if you don’t wish to do it yourself. If you have a normal PAYE Ozzy job and one or two houses, you should be competent enough to get 99.5% of all that you are lawfully entitled to, without having to subject yourself to these clowns.
Just accept it……NEVER !!!!!
Go Dazzling…..I was going to say something like that but thought it was a bit too direct….may as well add to it. I remember an accountant I knew well explaining how they get so much money. Start off lower to win a client, then each year increase the fees until they are unbearably high for the client, so they then look elsewhere. If they move, it’s no big deal, as they inherit a new customer from the other accountant who has just done the same, and on the cycle goes. If they don’t go elswhere, in comes more money. Personally, I also found that each year, you are handed further anf further down the ‘chain of command’ which of course involves poorer service, slower response to phone or email enquireis and so on, but the fees do NOT reflect this. Gets to the stage where you really are afraid to ring them up anymore than you have to. Business, yes, but I will never be likely to use one for any property unless it gets to the stage where i own heaps (sorry, when it gets to the stage I meant to say not ‘if’…must be positive…) I do a lot more reading now tha’t for sure. I also use software to assist with tracking expenses and income, which seems to work ok. (POSH) All the best in your search![medieval]
Well thatnks to all.
i Must admit i like dazzling’s idea more than the rest. Too late i guess for this year’s tax return because i have already lodged it with them, however i will be alot more alert in next year’s.
I dont except this, thanks for making me stand up to receive good service dazzling. My collegue that sits next to me at work doesn’t get this treatment so i gues there are accountants out there that aren’t so stingy.
Regards
Mspartal
One way to keep the times down that you get charged for is to be very specific about what you are asking. It saves wasted time in a meeting or phone call. I’ve been doing that by asking the question in an email. Then I get a written email reply. Short and sweet and a record of what I’ve been advised to do.
Still get billed, but at least I know what for.
Hi mspartal,
On your search you may like to try Rob Prouse from Rob Prouse & Associates. Does alot of IP investment himself, does my tax personal return (must admit mine is very basic) and we refer quite a few of our clients SMSF & IP quries to him.
Contactable on 9246 9055. Just a name to start your search. Try a few and see what works best for you.
If you think you are entitled to a refund or a better refund, why not lodge an amendment? But only do this if you are really sure you will get more back as it will cost you money.
cheers
Toniyes Mspartal
Dazzling is right. i agree dont accept it. I have just changed my accounting firm because they were charging me bucks just to talk to me and then put me on hold!ask around and stand firm!
Hi Hutch,
There are a couple of avenues you can look at dependent upon the agreement between yourself and the accountant.
Usually, your accountant should provide you with a fee schedule and a letter of agreement. If this was not provided, then unfortunately, you cannot go to the department of fair trading as they will require this information to process your complaint. If you do not have this agreement, then your other option is to go to the Consumer Affairs Tribunal within the small claims court.
Before you complain to the above regulatory body, you need to negotiate your concerns with the accountant. They may be able to give you a break down in fees and you can negotiate the cost from there. Please make sure that when you ask for a breakdown, the accountant does not charge you for this as some accountants do.
Your dissatisfaction seems to be related to the charges incurred and miscommunication of the expected charges not the actual work undertaken.
Hope the above helps.
Having got my bil for 2005 tax year from my accountant I thought I might have to go to the doctor first for heart medication. I phoned to discuss the bill but I got no joy. Hate to think how much that phone call will cost. I did learn a couple of things. You can get accounting programs that will help you organise all your expenses that give you a running total, then at the end of the year you just hand the total figures to your accountant. Your property manager will give you an end of year statement. That will give you total rent recieved for each property, management fee ect. Any other expenses eg. phone postage, milage, repairs,rates, bank statement (interest on loans) organise into a summary then give the totals to the accountant. This will keep the accountants time to a minimum and therfore their cost down.
Hope this is of some help.No it’s not normal! I don’t pay this.
I had few bad experiences with accountacts whos only advise what on what I have to pay, not on who to reduce the tax.So when I was chosing my currect accountant I organised an interview for few companies. I searched for the person that does the same type of investment as I do and does it succesfully. I spent few days looking arround – but in the long term it was worth every penny.
Just look for the right person – there are good accountacts arround, Ask at this forum for an advise. Not sure about self adverticed professionals… also the fact that they are in this forum is a good sign for me.
Cheers,
I recently walked into H&R Block to see about doing some tax couple other things I wanted to know, Trust structure ABN etc.
And the polite little girl said take a seat. I had an appiontment. Half hour later I was still sitting thier.
So I up and told them that “I will not wait any longer” as I progressed to walk out the door, leaving the girl behind the counter speachless. She just staired at me and never said anything!
Think I should be sending H&R Block my bill for the time they made me wait.
Not the norm for me- Imust be lucky and have had “reasonable” accountants..no dodgy bills for phone calls, writing letters to the bank and such..
“Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
Online Positive Cashflow and Renovating CalculatorsBear in mind guys we are not comparing “apples with apples” when comparing H&R block with fully qual’d accountants. I had a (1 & only) experience with the “just-out-of-accounting-school” H&R mob: the 20-or-so-ish year old had absolutely no idea about investing, terminology, tax strategies & didnt even know what full entitlements & deductions a property investor is entitled to! And they still had the cheek to try & charge me! (Which I point blank refused). So,one needs to be aware of “quality”, not “quantity”.
I went through coopers and liabrant to ITP and H&R block and then to the fairest deal I was able to get. A fixed annual price that included phone call advice and 4 visits per year.
I then decided to do a business (accounting) tafe coarse and now do my own (Company and personal). The web and especially the ato site give you heaps of information, and if I am not sure I send them an email for a ruling.
If you want a no frills try ITP or H&R block but I some do not do companies?
For a very good accountant in Perth I use Gogas and Associates. Theo Gogas can be contacted on 93153947.
He is very good with property investments and he invests in property himself
I will never forget the poor service my last accountant gave me when I sat down with him to go over my tax return details. Looked at me like I was a complete idiot. Absolutely no personality and no positive advice congruent with my direction. And massive bills to boot. Needles to say I have now moved on and am quite happy with my next Accountants.
I am in Melbourne and happy to give recommendations on my new ones (one does my PAYG and Company returns, the other is giving me property structure advice – and will probably end up doing everything for me). The latter – Dale Gartherum Goss – is brilliant, couldn’t recommend him more highly.
Rgs
QL
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