All Topics / Help Needed! / I Need some advice.

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  • Profile photo of kessudkessud
    Member
    @kessud
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 9

    Hi Guys n Gals
    I have a small problem with my PM. My tenant advised my PM that the shower recess drain was blocked .They promptly contacted me so as to arrange a plumber to fix the problem which i did. Two days after i had it fixed the tenant contacts another staff member in the office and advised the drain is still blocked. She then rings their plumber without my knowledge to fix the drain and then passes invoice to me of $180. Now the problem i have is if they had contacted me i could have sent my plumber back to fix the blockage that i had already payed him to fix. I know it is only a small amount but i dont feel i should have to pay twice to rectify the blockage. Should i just wear the extra cost or stand my ground and not pay.
    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

    Cheers
    kessud

    Profile photo of fishmanfishman
    Member
    @fishman
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 11

    perhaps I am missing something, but if the tenant contacted your property manager, it is they who should have arranged for a plumber to fix it. And in doing so, if there was reason for a second call out, they would have known and got the plumber who attended to go back out and sort the blockage, saving you the headache, and the extra cost.

    So, maybe let this one slide, but change the process for next time.

    Cheers

    Profile photo of kessudkessud
    Member
    @kessud
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 9

    The problem stems from the fact that the tenant spoke to two different staff in the office, the second one not knowing that i had arranged for my plumber to go their in the first place.

    Kessud

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
    Member
    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,150

    Rant mode on….[angry2]

    Ahhh, yet another little quirky residential story, one of many that we as investors used to put up with before they all mounted up and broke our camel’s back.

    The money side of things is irrevelant – isn’t it kessud….you are only concerned about the due process of it all, and how best to serve your loyal tenants ??

    No….the problem stems from the fact that it’s extremely easy for the PM (I prefer to call them phone call takers) to simply take a phone call…say “I’ll be right onto it”…and then pick up the phone and call the plumber out as many times as they like at your expense….no skin off their nose – right ?? Their obligation is over….phew, that took all of 2 minutes sitting behind a computer….professionally managed that is.

    Call the plumber out 8 times, 12 times, who cares….not them – only the poor sucker footing the bill. Hence why you are writing about it now. I don’t see too many PM’s writing in to complain about calling out plumbers….they don’t pay for it – so no biggy. They always turn around and say it’s tax deductable…., I’m sure you take great comfort from this.

    Of course, to get to the root of the cause, this enters one of those inevitably murky and nasty areas where we refuse to go now – what exactly is blocking up the drain ?? Ahhh, now we need to wade into the private lives of complete strangers – economically linked to your wealth creation process….a heady mix indeed. Who’s comfortable with questioning the private habits of strangers to reduce your costs…..hmmmm – see what I mean ??

    Have the tenants got 4 teenage daughters, all with long hair, and all who shower and wash their hair every day…..combined with soap accumulations and natural body fats….a constant barrage of a clogging concoction that will test the best of plumbing. But that’s reasonable, they are allowed to, your plumbing system will just need to cope with that mate – if it can’t – boy – look out, it’s gonna get expense.

    “How dare you question the private habits of my family”….screams the tenant before slamming the phone down and starts a vitriolic flurry of letters to the PM complaining about the rude Landlord asking personal questions. And the tenants are absolutely right of course, how dare you pal….just pay up and fix it when we call you….and be snappy about it.

    Hope the capital gain you are getting is worth the cost and time and stress impost…..that’s how most people justify it to themselves…..I know we did for the first 8 years. What else can you do ??

    With the tenants and properties we deal with now, we have the luxury of saying to them – “You clogged it up – you fix it”….and sure enough they do – no whinging – at their time and expense.

    Unfortunately, you do not have this luxury with the asset you own, and the law is squarely against you…..they cause the problem – you must pay to fix it – every time – regardless of how many times it takes. How many times will it take before you confront them with their personal habits and get to the source of the problem – what is your limit ??

    As I said before, just a small straw, and nothing to get into a tizz over….but imagine if you will…multiply this by many properties, and then let the plumber join his electrician mate, and the roof guy and get a plasterer involved, and the local handy man, and the pest control guy, and suddenly you’re employing an army of callout kings constantly. Believe me, the matrix of time and expense and headaches and whinging gets large, compounded by the constant nose wiping you need to perform on bleating tenants who refuse to lift a finger. See where I’m going ??

    So far in the last year on this forum we’ve had extremely similar issues posted, discussing what hapless ressy Landlords have brought up, with the accompanying frustrated questions about how to wriggle out of the cost or stem the outflow of cash and time, covering ;

    Flyscreens
    Blocked drains
    Ants
    White ants
    Overhanging trees
    Strange smells
    HWS’s bursting
    Pilot light on HWS went out
    Fence fell over and my cat may get out [blink]
    Leaking rooves
    TV Aerials
    Security doors
    Locks
    Leaking taps
    Tiles lifting
    Whizz bang electrical connections not working
    Cracked shower screens
    Changing light bulbs….no….seriously
    The list is by no means exhaustive….

    Any of the above, anything goes wrong, tenant snaps fingers…PM and Landlord come running via the army of tradespersons….open up the cashbook….job sorted, until the next time the tenant snaps fingers.

    No responsibility on their part….”Hey pal – I pay good rent and I want it sorted now”. just one little bleat and one phone call is all it takes to start a chain reaction that usually costs a week or two of gross rents to sort out….per phone call….what a game !!!

    Oh dear, the tenant who is paying 3.5% gross yield (only about 2.5% nett yield), reckons he’s paying top flight rent and wants the red carpet treatment ??

    But we must keep the tenant happy….at all costs….or so the mantra goes. I simply don’t want any fighting or confrontation, just pay to have it fixed and move on, they won’t call again – surely ??

    I see my father and sisters play this game over and over…..it’s absolute complete madness….but they really like it.

    Rant mode off. [hmm]

    kessud….just pay up, and keep paying up whenever they have a whinge….it’s just your lot in life as a residential Landlord.

    Oh, and to answer your second question, ummm, as the investor, you don’t decide what you pay for and what you don’t….your PM has 100% discretion over that. What they strip out before handing you the remainder is up to the agreement between yourselves, and you’ll probably find calling out a $ 180 plumber, they are well within their rights and you’ve got Buckleys mate. Since they hold the cash – not you, you’ll have to plead your case with them….that’s simply the way the principals of the agencies set their business models up….to reduce their cashflow risk, they simply impinge upon yours – simple. [whistle]

    Profile photo of Stuart MilneStuart Milne
    Member
    @stuart-milne
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 196

    Do what I did: Change your Apointment to act with them – Nil expenditure without your permission. Yes you have to answer that call at 0330 and yes they know what time it is believe me.

    Yes you have to get your plumber out of bed at that time and he will charge you top dollar for the opportunity anyway get used it, life still rolls on (unless your the tenant paying a pittance for no hot water at 0330 in the morning in the middle of winter)…

    Let your tradesman charge you a fortune for refilling the hot water heater for you. Who cares? You don’t want to do it. Otherwise make it the agents responsibility that when they do their quarterly inspection they refill it. (Yes I know blocked drains I’m getting their).

    Then give your tenants Draino for Christmas. (Anonymously of course think of the liability issues). And for the start of the new financial year too! Then forget about the drainage issues they will be able to resolve them without calling….

    The next step in the process after removing the agents authority to spend your capital is to demand ONE person in the office makes decisions on your property. Ensure they have a mobile and are contactable. Then you will have ensured this doesn’t happen again.

    Easy Right? You would think so, but you will still end up refusing to pay for work which wasn’t authorised. Oh well at least it’s not your problem now…..

    Stuart Milne
    Non-Conforming Specialist
    READY Mortgages
    http://www.readymortgages.com.au
    [email protected]
    Mob: 0404 056 055

    Profile photo of WylieWylie
    Member
    @wylie
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 346

    I would try to not pay for the second plumber. I agree that you don’t have much weight in the matter because the PM is holding the money, but I’d be giving it a try.

    I manage our IPs myself, have done for about 25 years. My parents have managed their own IPs for 30 years. I could count on the fingers of one hand the problems we have had over that many years.

    I have never wiped a tenant’s nose. We give each tenant our list of trusted electrician, plumber but ask them to call us first, in case it is something we can fix. While many people advise against getting to know tenants, we have to because we manage them ourselves, and have had good relationships with most of them. The people in one of my parents houses are in the arts and give them free tickets fairly regularly. It is a two way street, we treat them well and they respect our houses.

    I think, Dazzling, you need to take a chill pill. I find managing our IPs a breeze, mostly. Sure, we have had occasional problems, but I find tenants are people just like me and most are reasonable. Of course, it helps that we live very near our IPs and are happy to spend half an hour if it saves us $180.

    I admire your posts and success, but personally, give me residential tenants all the days of the week. I want a simple life, and while I really enjoy reading about your trials and tribulations and huge successes, I do not want to experience any of it personally. I read about your clean ups and dealing with bikie riff raff, and thank goodness for the residential tenant. You can leave them all to me, the more the better.

    Wylie.

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086

    lets face it – as landlords we are offering a product to a client and they have the right to expect it to work and be in good order. The cost of that falls squarely with the landlord.

    Managing agents have spend limits for non emergency work. Either set a low one and micro manage or find a good manager.

    Even my nz tenants paying 10 to 14% gross like to live in functioning good homes. Frankly the standard of some homes that landlords expect to receive rent for makes me cringe.

    Go in and see the manager. Have a quick chat face to face about what your expectations are. Remember property managers are the lowest paid persons in real estate. If they are not on your wave lenght just find a new one. rental roles are very important to agencies in slower markets.

    When you get larger portfolios up and running you will find that over time certain properties seem to be problems. It might have alot more to do with the type of accomodation you have choosen as an investment than the tenant being sensitive.

    I Buy Property http://www.cashflowproperties.co.nz

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
    Member
    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,150
    I think, Dazzling, you need to take a chill pill.

    You’re absolutely correct Wylie – fully agreed. My different frame of reference is unfairly being applied back to residential tenants….it simply doesn’t work does it ?? Hey, you reckon this one is big enough, will it do the trick…. [chill]

    I admire your posts and success, but personally, give me residential tenants all the days of the week. I want a simple life, and while I really enjoy reading about your trials and tribulations and huge successes, I do not want to experience any of it personally.

    Cheers Wylie. No worries….horses for different courses hey !! Everyone has their own cup of tea.

    I read about your clean ups and dealing with bikie riff raff, and thank goodness for the residential tenant. You can leave them all to me, the more the better.

    Yep, done the clean ups but never dealt with bikies ?? I reckon they’d be OK to deal with, but never had to as yet…..being an ex-Harley rider myself, alot of their principles I agree with.

    Anyway, if you want my ressy tenants, you are quite welcome to the lot of them….would love to be rid of them all…..now that would be bliss !!! Sorry, they are in fact very very good, and worth heaps and heaps…..are you willing to stump up the cash required to inherit them ?? They are like little chicks…..going cheap cheap…. [biggrin]

    Profile photo of brahmsbrahms
    Participant
    @brahms
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 485
    Originally posted by kessud:

    Hi Guys n Gals
    I have a small problem with my PM. My tenant advised my PM that the shower recess drain was blocked .They promptly contacted me so as to arrange a plumber to fix the problem which i did. Two days after i had it fixed the tenant contacts another staff member in the office and advised the drain is still blocked. She then rings their plumber without my knowledge to fix the drain and then passes invoice to me of $180. Now the problem i have is if they had contacted me i could have sent my plumber back to fix the blockage that i had already payed him to fix. I know it is only a small amount but i dont feel i should have to pay twice to rectify the blockage. Should i just wear the extra cost or stand my ground and not pay.
    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

    Cheers
    kessud

    hi kessud – from your post it sounds like the original blockage wasn’t cleared by your plumber – and i agree the PM stuffed up not contacting you so you could send that plumber back out to do the job they should have done in the first place.

    naughty PM…you can’t expect too much from them, personally i self manage, and i have lots of clients and associates who do so also, many just list and pay the letting fee then take the management on. Seems to work ok.

    cheers

    brahms
    Purveyor of Fine Finances
    aka Mortgage Broker Brisbane

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086
    I reckon they’d be OK to deal with, but never had to as yet…..being an ex-Harley rider myself, alot of their principles I agree with.

    That’s a pretty interesting comment dazzling – suppose there are the teddy bear delivering type and the other type. ie organised criminal networks. You probably mean the teddy bear bunch?[blink]

    I Buy Property http://www.cashflowproperties.co.nz

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
    Member
    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,150

    Dunno Don….with you being an ex-cop, I’d have to bow to your greater skill and knowledge in that area. I just enjoy riding the bikes that Mr Davidson invented way back when.

    I currently work with 5 US expats, ranging from 57 up to 64 yrs of age. 3 engineers, 1 accountant, and 1 doctor…..all ride Harleys….all are good family men and none are involved in any criminal activity. Perhaps you have seen the wrong end of the stick in your previous profession.

    Anyway….this is all wayyyy off topic…..let’s flip back to kessud’s fascinating plumbing problems….

    Profile photo of redwingredwing
    Participant
    @redwing
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,733

    There’s Bikies and then there’s Bikers..
    BIG Difference IMO

    “Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
    Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow Calculator

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086

    yeah that’s what I meant but now that you say it not sure which is which. omcg’s are fairly nasty organisations – the bikes and leather are just about using force to gain market share – the rest is big business and these groups own many “legitmate” businesses and have fingers in many different pies.

    I Buy Property http://www.cashflowproperties.co.nz

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of kessudkessud
    Member
    @kessud
    Join Date: 2006
    Post Count: 9

    Thanks for the responses, i am having a chat to the PM this week to get some clear guidelines in place to keep everyone happy.

    Cheers
    kessud

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