All Topics / Forum Frolic / Cronulla Debacle

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  • Profile photo of nazzysmithnazzysmith
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    Suprised this subject hasn’t been touched on yet.Perhaps we can discuss it with out anger and hatred like was displayed on the weekend.
    As a regular user of cronulla’s glorious beaches it is a great dissapointment to see it now a war zone! Apart from the obvious “What where they thinkng” or “This is unaustralian”. What the cronulla crowd did was stupid.

    Not to mention they have awakened a beast. No im not middle eastern or muslim And Im definitily not rascists. i just recognize how dangerous people like this can be. The reality is, aussies are not in the same league or mindset as these guys when it comes to violence.

    Need proof, the crowd on Sunday turned up angry with beers and protest signs. Pretty pointless if the opposing team had turned up. They would have bars knives and guns.

    Another interesting thimg to note was how disturbed the public where with the violence on Sunday. Remember this type of violence happens every weekend. Just not as big, and its not televised. My heart goes out to the victims, but atleast they where still standing afterwards.
    Yes people got hurt and stuff got damaged and I certainly would’nt trade places with any of the victims!!!. But have a reality check. had there been 5000 rampaging middle eastern people Then you would have seen real violence and no victims would have walked away, I digress.

    It is not something i want to see, but i would expect that Sydney will see things this week it never thought possible. Already we are seeing vigilantes roaming the streets in packs.

    Im Kiwi, and have no ill feeling either way. I will be staying in doors this weekend. Not from fear, just from good ole commen sense.

    If anyone would like to reply, take it easy! And lets discuss like adults!!! [chill]

    -Thomas

    “More Time To Snowboard”

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
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    No worries Thomas. Let’s discuss.

    Been down on the rigs here in the Middle East in complete and absolute incommunicado for the past 4 days….I’m fully boned up on my fresh Arabic lessons thanks to my Muslim buddies and ready to translate back to English anything that you need…

    What event are you talking about ?? Was it big enough to make the headlines outside of Oz ??

    What happened in Cronulla ??

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
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    Not really sure dazzling. The TV news in NZ thought it was news to show the news reports of the story in other countries in their news.

    So I got to see the brits and yanks talk about the “race riots” in OZ.

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    Profile photo of ShwingShwing
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    Originally posted by nazzysmith0153:

    Need proof, the crowd on Sunday turned up angry with beers and protest signs. Pretty pointless if the opposing team had turned up. They would have bars knives and guns.

    Thomas,

    “Need proof, the crowd on Sunday turned up angry with beers and protest signs. Pretty pointless if the opposing team had turned up. They would have bars knives and guns.”

    Thats a bit harsh, the majority of people from what I’ve heard of the thousands that turned up where very well behaved and were simply being patriotic and pushing the point that we are a multi national country and we should all get on and not have to be subject to the violance that occurred the previous weekend.

    I bet there are heaps of people that were at Cronulla peacefully, and will be horrified that there face has appeared in papers and such and will now be associated with the violance that followed.

    Most people are not capable of taking things into there own hands, whether it be for good or bad, MOST people are just onlookers. Most people at Cronulla and within the rest of the Shire are good, non violent people who are just as horrified by the antics as everyone else.

    The crowd at Cronulla did not turned up armed. And they did not turn up to destroy their own propery.

    I agree that alcohol became a factor, and I agree that there are racists, and idiots that take things a bit to far. But most people are good people.

    I’m a Shire boy (but not as proud of it as I used to be).

    Mal

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    Profile photo of nazzysmithnazzysmith
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    I love the shire, spend every spare minute of my time down at eloura and greenhills. And I agree with you that a majority of the crowd would have been peaceful. I also have to say that this wasn’t unexpected. Im sure alot of people down there have been putting up with a lot of crap for a very long time! And this was just the straw that broke the camels back!

    Dazzling there was a riot down in cronulla,
    The cause, a group of lebanese mean beat up some young live savers on duty. This really got under peoples skin so they organised a sunday BBQ. This large gathering 5000 people turned ugly. Fuelled by alcohol a portion of the group went on a hunting spree through Cronulla looking for people of middle eastern appearance. And beating the crap out of them. Cops where completly overwhelmed.
    Understandably there has been an upstanding by the Lebanese. Resulting in a spree of attacks on people and property.
    Does’nt take a genious to figure out this is a chain reaction that is unlikely to be stopped. Noting more attacks on the news this morning on innocent Aussie people doing things like putting out the garbage!

    -Thomas

    “More Time To Snowboard”

    Profile photo of depreciatordepreciator
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    It’s a good ole fashioned turf war. Been brewing for ages. Yes, there was an incident the previous week that was a catalyst, but there would have been other incidents over the years and both sides would have alternately been at fault.
    Locals in all beachside suburbs inevitably feel like owners of their beaches – their rates contribute to their upkeep. Problem is people from less affluent inland suburbs are drawn to the beach, and often they travel in groups. Then when they are at the beach they sometimes behave in ways that upset the locals. One complaint from the locals at Cronulla is that the ‘Lebs’ come and play soccer on the beach instead of lolling about basting themselves with oil.
    Sure, the visitors sometimes behave badly (or differently), but locals can also behave badly – I had a bad experience at Maroubra beach last year and they were definitely locals.
    Deep down, most of us are racist, even if we don’t think we are. Comments like this are unconsciously racist:

    The reality is, aussies are not in the same league or mindset as these guys when it comes to violence.
    had there been 5000 rampaging middle eastern people Then you would have seen real violence and no victims would have walked away
    …if the opposing team had turned up. They would have bars knives and guns.

    Then there was this comment:

    Noting more attacks on the news this morning on innocent Aussie people doing things like putting out the garbage!

    Well, in today’s Sydney Morning Herald there is a quote from a local. He said he was inside his house and he heard shouting outside either Monday or Tuesday night:

    “We just grabbed anything, baseball bats, kitchen knives and ran out.”

    I don’t think that guy was just putting the garbage out.

    Turf wars at Sydney beaches have been going on sporadically since the 60s. With Sydney’s population increasing, there will be increased pressure on the beaches. And that pressure will come from people in predominantly ethnic suburbs – the coastal suburbs tend to be more Anglo.
    Scott

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    Profile photo of ShwingShwing
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    A family harrassed on the train at Cronulla, of a tanned complexion, although distressed, had a brilliant comeback.

    Turns out the guy is Australian Aboriginal, from Queensland, can’t get more Australian than that. He was quite happy to give the thugs some contacts numbers and names, if they required so desperately to reclaim the public land that they say is being taken over by various ethnic groups.

    Apparently he as been down this path himself for a slightly different cause.

    Mal

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    Profile photo of nazzysmithnazzysmith
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    Depreciator, your absoulutly right.
    While i deliberatly make a choice not to be rascists. And accept anyone for who they are.
    If i see an asian driver i automatically assume bad driver
    If i see 5 lebs in a gemini I automtically assume trouble
    But also If I see A group of bikies I also assume trouble?

    Is sterotyping a race, rascism?
    If so then why is it not rascism when i see bikie gangs?

    -Thomas

    “More Time To Snowboard”

    Profile photo of depreciatordepreciator
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    We prejudge people based on our perceptions of the group they belong to.
    If we prejudge a person because of their nationality, that prejudice is called racism.
    Racism is a just a form of prejudice.
    It’s very hard not to succumb to it, and I’m as guilty as anyone else. Seeing an Asian driver and assuming they’re dangerous means we are prejudging that driver because of the reputation that race has for driving. I live in a suburb with a large Vietnamese population. I like the impact they have on the suburb, but I’m wary of them when I’m crossing the road. And this is despite the fact that the hoons who race up my street aren’t Vietnamese.
    Bikies, gays, disabled people etc are all minorities who are often prejudged.
    Property investors also get prejudged.
    Scott

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    Profile photo of MarucoMaruco
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    I feel it is already wrong that people call each other as Lebanese, Aussie,or Asian, especially in this topic.
    I prefer not to be called “Asian” because I am a Japanese and not a Chinese or Korean.
    But normally people call us “Asian” and think we are all same.
    My son says, “My mum is a Japanese and my father is a Chinese, but I am an Australian.”
    How about people from Europe?
    They look like so called “Aussie”, but they can be a Spanish, German, Italian, etc.
    When I travel to other countries and when people ask me “where are you from?
    ” I say, “I’m from Australia.”
    When people ask my son “what nationality are you?”, can’t he just say “Australian”?
    Does he have to explain the whole bunch of family history? His dad is already mixed with Taiwanese, Malaysian, and others I don’t even know.
    I am really confused with this nationality topics.

    Profile photo of depreciatordepreciator
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    Everybody gets labelled, Maruco. Labels are useful things.
    The ‘Greeks’ next door to me see themselves as Greek despite having been here since 1956.
    Nationalities can be distinct from countries.
    The Greeks next door aren’t all that keen on the ‘Lebs’ across the road. I was talking to Ahmed, one of the lebs, yesterday and asking him whether he and his mates (there’s around 20 of them) had been to beach lately. He laughed and said: ‘nah, we’re the smart lebs, they’re the dumb lebs’
    Of course, the local Greeks and lebs aren’t all that keen on the local Vietnamese.
    To take your point Maruco, I’ve been to Asia and been discriminated against. I’d say many people in Asia often understandably can’t tell the difference between, say, an American, an Australian or an Englishman so we all get the same label. It’s no big deal.
    Appearance is everything.
    Last time I was in Italy, people assumed I was American, which horrified me.
    Of course your son can say he’s Australian. Some people will accept that, others won’t. But if he has sufficient self esteem it won’t matter.

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    Profile photo of calvin_thirty4calvin_thirty4
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    Interesting read!

    From what little I picked up from the TV news, every-one beat up on every-one else! Yet you tell a very different story!

    Here in Perth it seems as though my fellow Perthites are going on the same “all-out” bash some-one spree.

    makes you wonder how much responsibility the news has to take in their efforts to tell us what is going on and thereby inflaming the situation. Of corse, they’re only telling us what is going on! Yeah, rrrrright!

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    Profile photo of WylieWylie
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    We got back from Los Angeles to hear that there had been riots. Nothing on the news in the US that we saw. I wonder if they have even heard of us sometimes.

    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
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    Nothing on the news in the US that we saw. I wonder if they have even heard of us sometimes.

    This is exactly what I have been saying for ages. People living in Australia who never get out into the big bad world don’t realise how insignificant Australians and everything to do with Australia really is.

    In general Australians are very proud of who we are and what we are blessed with (culture / climate / environment etc) and don’t take too kindly being shoved in the category of irrelevancy. We are in most respects, and just have to get the tickets off ourselves. We really do have an inflated view of ourselves on the world stage.

    One of the old US gents I work with said our entire country has an economy 1/6th of one of his states, and a total population of about a 1/3rd of one of his states, and they have 50 of them. I said yes that’s true, and just the way we like it.

    Where I live and work…it’s extremely dangerous to be pidgeon holed as an American, and I am constantly reminding the locals, despite my looks, that I am not an American. It doesn’t work though, I look and act like an American to the local Muslim lads, and therefore may as well be one in their eyes.

    What I’ve found works that breaks down the barriers between the two cultures – which are massively apart from one another – is to be receptive to their culture. I need to be ‘cos I’m in their patch. I’m quickly learning their language and respect most of their local traditions – although I would never expose my wife and girls to it.

    We’ve got ex-pat white women from Unicef and Red Cross etc here working, but the local Imams think they are a joke and treat them as such. Nice enough ladies, but way out of their depth. After one or two years of trying to impose their Western standards on the local women, they give up and go back to wherever they came from.

    The one thing I never do is judge their culture and traditions with my Western standards. It will never work – and I’ve found it makes no sense to do so.

    What I expect when I come back to Australia is for the same courtesy to be extended. It appears that expectation is not being met.

    Profile photo of MarucoMaruco
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    Appearance is everything, huh?
    So those children who have European appearance get to call themselves as “Aussie” and people accept it, but those children who don’t have European appearance won’t get to call themselves as “Aussie” because some people won’t accept it.
    Oh dear, dear.
    His dad traveled around several countries as he grew up and calls himself a Chinese even though he has never lived in China, and
    he sometimes says he is a Malaysian, too, as people want to “label” him as something but an Australian.
    So my son was born in Australia and grew up in Australia, but has to call himself something else, huh?
    Well, maybe “it is not a big deal” as you say, depreciator.
    And it should not be a matter anyway.

    Profile photo of nazzysmithnazzysmith
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    Hi Calvin,
    I heard earlier on the radio a group of cars full of lebs was pulled up in the city. The cars where searched and numerous weapons ( no guns) where found.
    There drivers license showed W.A address’s.
    Not sure on the validity as it has not been shown on the TV news yet. And there have been several misleading stories flying around!
    But jeez if it is true the media must really be stirring the pot over there!!!

    -Thomas

    “More Time To Snowboard”

    Profile photo of nazzysmithnazzysmith
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    Maruco, I dont give a stuff what your son looks like! If he is an honest and trustwothry person Ill gladly stand by his side! And he should be able to proudly stand up and say “I AM AUSTRALIAN”.
    If people look at him and identify him by his looks so be it. Its whats on the inside that counts.
    As for not liking being called asian? Im kiwi and believe me when I say us Kiwi’s cop a hammering! Dont even get me started on the sheep jokes. None of which bother me in the slightest.
    Australia is a place based on multiculturism!!! Remember the Aboriginals where here first, they are the true aussies!
    You have every right to stand up and call yourself an aussie! If thats what you believe.

    -Thomas

    “More Time To Snowboard”

    Profile photo of MarucoMaruco
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    nazzysmith0153,
    It is just that I am worried for my sons, that’s all.
    I read a news that a 19-year-old boy was bashed because of how he looked (lebanese), even though he argued that he is an Australian, too.
    I know there are lots of, lots of wonderful Australian people (well, who are the Australian now?) but we, as an Asian, encounter some unpleasant experiences sometimes and that makes me worried for my sons.
    There was a writing on a toilet door saying “Asians! Go back to your own country!”. (and someone replyed “You first.”)
    Well, I can go back. But my children have no where else to go back.
    When my friend’s little girl was playing with an “Aussie” little girl in a pool and the “Aussie” mum shouted “don’t play with asian girl!”. Even though the little girl looks like an “Aussie” as her dad is an “Aussie”.
    An “Aussie” lady pointed at me on a train and started giving out a speech about how asians are invading Australia.
    There are more.
    My sons have to go through this sort of experiences because of how they look, and that breaks my heart sometimes.

    Profile photo of Cabo WaboCabo Wabo
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    This looks like a great opportunity to “vent”….

    I guess a generalised description of myself and my ancestry would be “island people”. My mum is from Perth in WA originally (aust is an island). Her great grandparents came from Scotland and Ireland (british Ilses). Both myself and my father were born in Barbados (caribbean). Dad’s side is from Barbados going way back & england before that(again British Ilses).

    I’ve been here since 87. My barbadian accent, combined with an Australian accent makes me sound terribly American. Everyone just assumes i’m an American. 18yrs in Oz, 10 of them in the bush…and i’m an American! My first car was my grandmothers Torana, and then after a bunch of hoon fords, i’m still driving the same HZ 308 prem i’ve had for the past 8 years. The other day someone asked me how my holiday was going!

    My staple beer is EB, I’ve been roo shootin more times than i can remember, in winter i hang around the house in flannels (brother gives me a hard time for it), and have seen more of this big brown land than 99% of city folks, and as soon as i open my mouth… i’m and American.

    Very frustrating when flamin idiots like George Bush are running around. I see the humour in it all though, believe me.

    My dad played cricket with Desmond Haynes and Gordon Grenich for christ sakes, and other Aussies look at me funny when they realise i can bowl, and know what a “slip” is.

    I’d have to agree with dazzling that the average australian takes australia’s role in the world far too seriously. There’s only 20mil of us. That ain’t much. I’m a huge history reader, and fall about if i miss the SBS news – I love foreign affairs… and yes, we are irrelavant. There’s just not enough of us, and we are thought of as being very far away.

    There’s a bloke up here at work (pilbara)who is such a typically stereotyped australian that he should be framed. More than the rest, this guy exudes larican, laid-back, footyloving, crack a few tinnies while jewie fishin Australianism. Like a cross between Boonie and Sam Newman.

    The day before yesterday, while talkin about how his missus wants him to go back to the UK to see her olds… he very patriotically, emphatically, and proudly said he “wasn’t the kind of bloke that would leave his own country.” WOW!

    As someone originally from the other side of the world, (12hrs difference) what do you say to that?!

    Cabo Wabo

    Profile photo of nazzysmithnazzysmith
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    Having met you Cabo I never would have guessed! You certainly sounded Americanish to me!
    Although having read yout post you sound alot more aussie then most blokes I know…

    -Thomas

    “More Time To Snowboard”

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