Hey everyone,
Has anyone personally experienced this or know someone that has?
We are buying a property but on the boundary diagram (our solicitor gave us) it shows that a fence was built, by the neighbours, that encroaches on the land we are buying! Their house (about 2 metres of it) overflows onto the (our) land!!!
Are they idiots!? Or could they have possibly had permission from the local council to do this? Because we have a diagram that shows that this fence was built, and if that diagram came from the council, then how come they haven’t done anything about it?
Any help would really be appreciated.
pasandbec
I’m no expert at this but I think I read somewhere that if they have been in posession of the land for more than 15 years, you cannot do anything, otherwise, you could have a case to get the neighbours to compensate you for the 2m of land they are using.
Have you bought the land yet? If not I would either stay away from this one, or ask for a discount on the price as the land you are buying in reality is smaller than what it appears on paper.
Xenia
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phone 0412 437 582Hi Xenia,
Haven’t brought yet, we’re going to exchange in the next few days.
Our solicitor said that when we buy it it’s up to us to approach the neighbour about the matter and take it from there. My partner is going back there today to get some more advise from him because they have encorached on more land than we orignally thought (by the looks of it). And their house is encoraching (we originally thought it might have just been land, so easy to move a fence, but not so with a house.
I don’t know how long they’ve had the land but their house is very new looking so perhaps not long at all.
We still want the place but we’re just wondering how to go about this matter.
thanks,
pasandbecI’m no solisitor, but the advice received from your solisitor appears……….
I would seek advice from another solisitor and/ or the local council immediately.
hrm
Yes I haven’t been very happy with the solicitors here so far. I have not lived here long and have not found one I’ve been very impressed with yet.
I live in Orange, NSW, so if anyone can recommend a good one to me…..!?
I would get things sorted before you exchange contracts. I know someone whose house and the neighbouring house used to belong to mother and son (now both houses in different hands). The pool (or pool surround) in the yard of the people I know is slightly in the back yard of the neighbour. Obviously it wasn’t such an issue when mother and son lived in the two houses.
After years of living there, suddenly the non-pool owners have the yard surveyed to replace a fence and discover the pool problem. They discuss things with the neighbours, all is friendly, they even apparently discuss keeping the slice of back yard needed for the pool and giving the neighbours the equivalent in the front yard.
Discussions are going swimmingly (pun intended) when the non-pool owners slap a letter from a solicitor requesting $25,000 for the portion of land. Situation goes from friendly discussions to solicitors letters exchanged and much heartache and possible expense in sorting it out.
If you really want the house, I’d sort it out first. If the real estate agent knows of the situation, my understanding is that he/she is duty bound to disclose it to any other potential purchasers. You need to check on that, but if it is the case, I’d say most purchasers would want to sort out the situation before going ahead, so you may have time to get it solved, and not miss the house you want.
With the neighbours house partly on your land, I could imagine only trouble ahead and, personally, would not touch it with a barge pole.
Hope you can get this solved to your satisfaction, Wylie.
Perhaps I missed it but have you actually had the land surveyed. I have found that boundaries are a bit loose in some country areas but people do not usually build without being sure that they are, in fact, on their own land. I suggest you do not make a move until you have the land surveyed and marked.
Thanks for your reply Wylie,
I rang the local council (where the house is) and they have said what my solicitor said “It is a private matter between the owners”.
They said the first step is to get a Land Survey done by Surveyor to determine EXACTLY what the properties’ boundaries are and go from there. Discuss with neighbour, then go to Small Claims Court or higher….
But I think my solicitor should be doing more than saying “buy now, worry about it later”….
I like to know what I’m up for BEFORE HAND.
Will see what he said to my partner thsi morning about it all.
Originally posted by marsden:Perhaps I missed it but have you actually had the land surveyed. I have found that boundaries are a bit loose in some country areas but people do not usually build without being sure that they are, in fact, on their own land. I suggest you do not make a move until you have the land surveyed and marked.
Thanks for your reply Marsden.
We have not had a Land Survey done (yet), I am only going by a diagram my solicitor showed me that has a bird’s eye view of the properties’ boundaries. The bold line indicates the boundary line and the broken line is where the neighbours have built a fence. Also, going by visual inspection. The neighbour’s fence overlaps the driveway of the property we’re buying.Great story Wylie…some real life tactics in that. How refreshing to read;
“Discussions are going swimmingly (pun intended) when the non-pool owners slap a letter from a solicitor requesting $25,000 for the portion of land. Situation goes from friendly discussions to solicitors letters exchanged and much heartache and possible expense in sorting it out.”
Looks to me as though all of this generic non-committal advice/suggestions proferred by forum members about consulting your solicitor and swinging them into action isn’t such clever advice after all. Perhaps there is a far better solution than involving those overpriced clowns.
I remember reading some sage advice from Noel Whittaker in one of his earlier books saying that involving lawyers and going to court is almost a guaranteed way of ending up on the ‘losing’ side, with all of the protracted stress/time and money issues that go along with it.
In regards to your specific concern pasandbec, I’d suggest if the house structure is indeed encroaching (confirmed by a licensed surveyor) the problem ain’t going to be resolved quickly or cheaply. Simply realise that, estimate the cost to rectify (don’t forget to include your time, it’ll be substantial) and if you are still keen move ahead with that re-adjusted figure.
Methinks once you’ve added up the real time/cost to rectify the situation and put your appropriate lower bid to the vendor, they’ll reject it outright and you’ll be walking away. If you still ‘really really want it’…then put up with the heartache and cost that will surely follow.
Cheers,
Dazzling
“No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”
Dazzling,
If we’re in the right, won’t the offending neighbours end up having to pay all the court costs?
You may well be in the ‘right’, but it could drag out 6 years and cost you more than $ 100K+ along the way, not to mention the onset of grey hair and far worse medical problems.
One of my work colleagues is/has been going through this very same thing since 1999. It’s aged him terribly and frankly everyone in the office is fed up to the back teeth with his constant court dates and hearings, onsite meetings with councils and pleading his case with anyone who’ll listen (MP’s / journos / councillors). Apparently it all boils down to how strong are your opponents (financially and more importantly ‘connections’ wise). I asked him one day last year (only 5 yrs into the drama) if he thought it was all worth it…he candidly said no it wasn’t, and wish he’d never bought the place.
He was also of the strong opinion he was ‘in the right’…over time he’s of the opinion it doesn’t matter who’s right about the original infraction, over time the case gathers it’s own personality and the original incursion almost becomes irrelevant with every swinging Tom and Dick and Harry getting in on the act.
“IF”….now there’s a monumental word…my mother always used to say “If is in the middle of stiff”.
Cheers,
Dazzling
“No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”
Hello
I have unfortunately experienced the joy of having our property encroaching on our neighbours. I live in the inner west in Sydney and our Terrace block is approximately 6 metres wide. We undertook extensive renovations back in 2001 which included putting a double garage/carport out the back – we have rear lane access. We did all the right things, had the survey done, went through council, the survey guy put string lines up etc etc. When we were watching the concreters preparing and laying the slab, all looked OK. When the brick walls went up, we specifically told the builder to come in a bit (just in case) so as not to have any dramas re boundaries in the future.
Our next door neighbours have recently starting renovating their house and they are building a garage/carport similar to ours. They too had a survey done, and as it seems our builders correctly place our wall on the boundary, however the concrete footings beneath the wall had encroached on their land approximately 10 centimetres. Well there I was standing in the rear lane with the neighbours builder arguing over 10 centimetres.
To cut a long story short, at the end of the day, we were in the wrong and the builder had every right to cut away 10 centimetres of concrete footing with a diamond edge blade.
So having experienced this first hand, I personally would never again get involved with any house which had potential issues re boundaries. It is very stressful and can be expensive.
I can’t remember the technical term used, all I know that you could grant your neighbour an “easement” (not entirely sure it this is the correct legal term). Basically means you are granting him permission to use part of your land. Whether that comes with a price, that I am not sure.
All I can suggest, is get the survey first, and then at least you will have clearer picture.
Good luck
Nikki K
Nice post dazzling. The other saying is that the only winners in court are the solicitors! Keep it out of court if at all possible!
So, what are the real reasons for your concern? Is is because the title says the land size is Xm2 and you require that for future development or is it because you are buying land of that size and equates to $Y / m2.
Ultimately I would think that if the title says you are buying a certain parcel of land and are not getting what you are paying for, the onus lies with the buyer to either justify you ARE getting that, recognise that you are not and modify the price or for you to recognise that it dosn’t matter and will accept as is. Once you buy, the current owner has transferred responsibility to your good self and then the problem is yours.
It comes down to how much you want it, why you want it and does it make a difference anyway. You can fight it out with the neigbours later, but as said above, that could prove costly in time and money, not to mention causing disharmony from day one with your next door neighbour which can be painful.
My advice, determine the size of the problem first (through a surveyor) and take it up with the seller before exchange occurs. If you are not happy, walk away!
Hi,
My personal preference would be to skip this deal as I know I’d get a bit too passionate about justice and people trying to cheat other people and so on. I’d end up getting a survey done then knocking their fence down and building it on the real property line. If their house fell into my yard I’d write a nice little letter that told them to either:
1. Move their house off my land.
2. Pay rent for use of my land calculated as a per square metre as a percentage for usage at the market rent.
3. or if no other word is heard back in 60 days I’ll take a diamond saw and cut the offending section of house off and remove it myself.I’d make sure the neighbour knew in no uncertain terms that one way or another I’d be getting full uniterrupted use of my land because it is mine and get to choose how it is used.
That is why I wouldn’t buy the land. As you could imagine it would start a war, one I would almost certainly “win” but only by the neighbour doing as I asked (or coming up with a better solution) or me burning their house down next time they are out on holidays. Heck maybe I’d burn the house down so they could claim insurance and I’d get my land back. [biggrin]
So what length would you go to? I know what I’d do so I’d not buy.
Well, we are not too concerned about the land size. Although I do think it’s unfair that the neighbours have built onto our land, and for that, I think we should get compensated. However, my main concern lies in when WE sell it in years to come. Are we going to have trouble selling it for the exact same reason???
What WOULD the implications be if we tore the neighbours fence down and built our own as close to the boundary as possible???
Providing the land survey proves what the boundary lines are, of course!!
Out of curiosity, have you questioned the previous owners as to why they allowed them to build on their (being the seller) land in the first place? Who else have you spoken to apart from lawyers and RE agents?
jhopper,
Have not spoken to the Vendor personally, all communication is going through our and their solicitor. But when our solicitor asked them about it they said they didn’t know of any encroachment! I don’t know if they’re bulls*&ting or what.
have only spoken to our solicitor, my mortgage broker (great man), I have not approached the R/E agent about the matter at all.
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