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  • Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
    Member
    @kay-henry
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,737

    Well, derivex.com.au is dead.

    ifhl.com.au has that picture of the blonde skivvy-wearing fellow on the front of the site, but nowt else.

    Seems there’s no interest in no interest.

    kay henry

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 2,493

    It is poor management. Derivex and IFHL are just names of companies. The idea is certainly not dead by any means.

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
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    The CFDX website is still going. I wonder when he will just step back!!!

    http://www.cfdx.com/

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of TJamesXTJamesX
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    @tjamesx
    Join Date: 2003
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    Well maybe it is all over for the enigma that is/was Derivex….

    Here is a parting masterpiece taken from their cfdx.com site;

    Strategy

    The Derivex Group manages a class of fund processes that automate use of proven investment strategies over multiple capitalisation levels.

    The pooling of collateral bond strips into standardized and predefined strip series for active trading purposes, increases homogenization of the underlying collateral. The key benefit is diverse generic securities.

    The internalised core gearing strategy spans the complete risk/return spectrum for the equitisation of collateralised debt and equity capital.

    The risk-adjusted funding mechanism is a conduit between borrowers and capital markets, eliminating a host of local middlemen and costs.

    aaaahhhhhhhhh………. finance made easy!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,190

    I beleive they took up some expensive offices, so the operating costs (for wages, rent etc) must have been enormous. Without the ability to write any loans it must have been very hard for them to keep going for any length of time.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
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    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Aust wide) http://propertytaxbook.com.au/

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
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    The offices were not that expensive and no-one was ever paid. I think there was a trading insolvent issue.

    In any case, that was just that company. As far as I am concerned, the product is still a possibility and hope to see something happen in the near future. If not interest free, at least a very reduced rate. People are working on it.

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of GrantH_1974GrantH_1974
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    @granth_1974
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 190

    I think for it to work in the future someone needs to be able to explain how it works. Having said that, heaps of people (including plenty on this site) were happy to go along for the ride with little/no real explanation…so maybe it wouldn’t be that difficult to give it another run.

    Profile photo of tom1000000tom1000000
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    @tom1000000
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 74

    Last I saw on the derivex.com.au website, was that they were shut down by ASIC.

    ASIC were acting unfairly according to Derivex. ASIC wouldn’t even say what they were investigating, or who raised the complaint.

    Apparently ASIC are to blame for the end of Derivex?

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
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    ASIC had nothing to do with it. It was poor management.

    Jason, regarding your comments, let me ask you this…

    When new inventions come to market, should we all stay right away from them or should a few check it out on behalf of others?

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of tom1000000tom1000000
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    @tom1000000
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    Well I just sent an email to CFDX asking what happened. If they have anything to say I will let you know.

    I’m very disappointed, was hoping to change my PPOR over to 0% (and lock in current property valuation), not much I can do obviously. Oh well….

    Profile photo of GrantH_1974GrantH_1974
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    @granth_1974
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 190
    Jason, regarding your comments, let me ask you this…

    When new inventions come to market, should we all stay right away from them or should a few check it out on behalf of others?

    I think checking it out is always worthwhile. Even I tried to check it out but when I couldn’t get a straight answer I knew not to touch it (even with a 40′ pole).

    I was refering more to the people who were willing to risk $$$ in the application process & the people who added IFHL to their signature quite quickly at the ‘beginning’ of the spruiking but then removed it just as quickly when it became clear it was going to end the way it has (i can’t remember who these were but regular users would remember).

    Cheers,
    Jason.

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
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    Regardless of who it was, these guys risked a lot to check it out for their clients and others while potentially getting in at ground level for what could be one of the most revolutionary advances in finance the industry has seen in a long time.

    As for risking dollars, I agree this is a bit too much but I committed a lot of time working for the organisation and lost a lot in lost income which had the same result as putting in dollars. When I realised that the management was way off, I bugged out. This does not mean I do not think the product itself doesn’t have a lot of potential.

    I certainly do not think I was an idiot and I hope you don’t either just because I wanted to check out this new product.

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
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    @dazzling
    Join Date: 2005
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    I’ve only ever remarked once about Derivex – or any other organisation that may pop up from time to time extolling the virtues of IFHL.

    My comment then was that organisations collectively worth ~ $ 1 Trillion, yes with a T, namely the big four banks plus the also rans in the industry who have it sown up…simply will not allow some pip squeak operator to start up here and cut their lifeblood revenues – regardless of the idea or concept.

    $ 1 Trillion is just too much money and buys too much politic influence – which filters down to the authorities who then act on their behalf.

    I believe the ASIC agenda or workflow order would of been “Shut it down ASAP…and make sure it or something similar never raises it’s ugly head again”. Of course, that’s not what the public would have been told…but that would’ve been the direct order from the Chairmen of the big four to our lil’ mate Johnny. All done in the nicest possible way of course over a tipple of Brandy and a fine Cuban at their fave Club.

    In summary – serious money was threatened, they acted quickly to protect said serious money, and as a result of that action, I’m sure it won’t be threatened ever again. The issue is dead.

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
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    Dazz, let me assure you that you are way off the mark on this one.

    Firstly, non-conforming lending is huge business and the major players, namely Liberty Financial and Bluestone, were little “pip squeak” operators not all that long ago.

    Secondly, ASIC had nothing to do with the problems faced by Derivex. They are still investigating and have exerted no influence over Derivex whatsoever other than asking for documentation.

    Finally, I have it on good authority that the majors are trying to copy the idea and I am certain that others are attempting to put something together as we speak so it is certainly not a dead issue.

    If it can be worked out to be what it is supposed to be, it will be released on the market sooner or later.

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of DazzlingDazzling
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    @dazzling
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    I admire your feeble optimism flogging this ‘dead horse’ when pitted against such unprecedented, united, overwhelmingly massive financial forces.

    An old horse trainer once told me “The race is not always won by the strongest or fastest, but that’s the way to bet…”

    The IFHL is metaphorically a knackered old nag with 3 hooves already inside the glue factory.[biggrin]

    Lead on Horatio !!!!

    Profile photo of Robbie BRobbie B
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    @robbie-b
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    Dazz, you clearly have no idea about what happened. It was a management failure. Nothing else stopped it!

    The Mortgage Adviser


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    Profile photo of surreyhughes19905surreyhughes19905
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    @surreyhughes19905
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    Post Count: 204

    I can’t believe anyone gave IFHL even a passing thought!

    Honestly if anyone was ever selling snake-oil Derivex were. Upon hearing the term “interest free home loan” I looked them up. I was hoping to find out how they intended to make money. When I read their babble and jargon rubbish my spidey senses tingled and I switched off.

    If it were possible to given money away for free and still make a profit those Trillion Dollar companies would be doing it, not some upstart bunch with a dodgy web-site and an amazing inability to state where their profit comes from.

    Simple fact: If money is worth 5.25% / annum you can’t lend it for less than that AND make a profit. If you could either we’d end up with hyper-inflation or the money rate would be raised until it was equivalent to 5.25%.

    Anyone saying otherwise is selling a con.

    I don’t call anyone stupid for trying to find out what the deal is, but I don’t think it was hard to realise the deal would fail. If it would work, wouldn’t a big player buy them out? Virgin would love to such a product; they could really challenge the banks.

    Chalk up another con that failed to sail.[baaa]

    Profile photo of skippygirlskippygirl
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    @skippygirl
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 127

    Poor risk management in the business planning and strategy phase.

    I would have thought a glaring risk to the market entry was customer confusion, and backlash from regulators and established players whose business you may threaten.

    They should have mitigated those risks before they went public. They need to take a look at someone like Richard Branson. Then the product would have either succeeded or yes, failed. Now nobody knows.

    skippygirl

    Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
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    @kay-henry
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,737

    As for me, I ceretainly thought the whole event was interesting- ridiculous, but interesting. Robert- you certainly had more than a fleeting interest in Derivex- you were on the management team!

    I think the more dangerous element of all this were the applications that were put in… the mistake was for people to disclose their financial and personal details to Derivex- ugh- i hope there are no implications for those who did that. Obviously, there were some who were so depserate for the latest, biggest thing, that common sense went out the window, and they handed over private details to those who ought not to have them.

    Ahhh, well- we live and learn. Or do we?

    kay henry

    Profile photo of ANUBISANUBIS
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    @anubis
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 559

    Who prevented them from taking any further applications?

    Was that at the behest of ASIC or voluntary due to poor management?

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