All Topics / Help Needed! / Air con in Perth Metro…

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  • Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    Hi Guys,

    I’m looking at installing ducted air conditioning in a new rental i just purchased in Merriwa, Perth.

    Does anyone recommend anybody for installation? I’m going to start ringing around and getting prices – though before I do I thought I’d ask for any recommendations first:)

    Also, is evaporative air con suited for Perth Metro, or do I look at using refrigerated air con?

    Thanks in adavance:)

    _ Wayne

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

    Profile photo of PurpleKissPurpleKiss
    Participant
    @purplekiss
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 580

    Try Airconditioning Solutions 93981777. I found them to be very helpful in advisng the right system for our situation ie: we’re on water tanks, are few degress higher than metro in summer and have frost in winter. The consultant we had was Tony Ryan and from emroy I seem to think he might live up that way.

    Others ones I faxed for quotes at the time didn’t even bother to come out to the house to look at what we were trying to aircondition!

    Good Luck whatever you decide.
    PK

    Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    thanks purple kiss:) I just got off the phone to Ryan – he’s sending out a quote as we speak:)

    Do you mind me asking what air con unit you installed? Was it a Cool breeze system?

    This is what he recommended…

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

    Profile photo of kpkp
    Member
    @kp
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 509

    OMG !!!
    Don’t do it Wayne !!
    You’re adding one more air cond that Western Power can’t cope with before summer.
    Blackouts in Feb for sure.
    And with a state election due around the same time, your air cond could be the straw that breaks the camels back, and causes a change of govt..can you live with that on your conscience ???

    KP

    Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    :)

    I was going to install reverse cycle wall units, though the floor plan (large windows) don’t allow for this. Therefore to give the tenant decent air con for the summer evapourative seems the best option at the mo…

    What do u suggest I do KP?? Got another alternative? :)

    cheers

    Wayne

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

    Profile photo of redwingredwing
    Participant
    @redwing
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,733

    Wayne..

    I’m pro refrigerated

    “Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
    Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow Calculator

    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    @derek
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 3,544

    Hi Wayne,

    Mother in law lives in Ocean Reef and she has a ducted evaporative unit and it seems to manage OK – humid days they are no good but otherwise OK.

    The key issue with evaporative units is for the moist air to get out to prevent saturation point being reached – you will need some way of securely allowing this to occur.

    On humid nights you can turn the water off and use the cooler as a fan unit.

    Derek
    [email protected]

    Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.

    Profile photo of RegrowRegrow
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    @regrow
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 77

    Hi Wayne

    The difference between Evapoative and Refrigerated A/C is:

    1) Evap A/C adds moisture to the air.(making the air muggy but cool), Less mechanical parts to ware out, but will require more maintenance (cleaning of the water resevior and pump) and will require water (like a toilet cistern) it adds water when level drops, they can be noisey (To neighbours)and usually is ducted throughout house (more instal costs) They are mounted on the roof of the house and will require tiles to be removed (possible water leaks from rain) and

    2) Refrigerated takes moisture from the air. (making the air dry) Has more mechanical parts but with technology today are quite reliable and are super quiet. They can be ducted throughout but are generally Split Systems which has less install costs as they are hung on a wall with a hole drilled through the wall for the conecting pipes, drain and wiring, with the outdoor unit mounted on the ground.

    With both systems you might require the services of an electrician as well if the A/C company do not have a qualified electrician. Check their quote to be sure.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Regrow

    Profile photo of thecrestthecrest
    Participant
    @thecrest
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 992

    Hi Wayne
    I’m awaiting quotes re a/c vs evap system on a 2 storey residence. Been uphill all the way with so many conflicting opinions and no shows. An a/c consulting engineer crossed my path just when I needed him, and is clearing things up for me (the cosmos delivers once again with hair-raising accuracy and timing, thank you).
    I’m trying to avoid high ongoing energy bills.
    I’ll post the details here when I get them.
    One evap user told me that when outside heat is too high, she turns off the evap unit, drains the now hot water, refills with cold fresh water, restarts, and it cools more.
    cheers
    thecrest

    thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
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    selling motels in NSW

    Profile photo of RegrowRegrow
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    @regrow
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    Post Count: 77

    Hi thecrest

    Slit systems are good in terms of energy consumption. Diakin have a new model out which is inverter driven ie: compressor speeds up when heating/cooling is required and slows down as it reaches the temp set point (saving power consumption). Older units just turn on and off as required.(exactly the same as your fridge)

    My personal opinion is Daikin is a far superior brand in quality and performance. Other good brands are LG and Mitsubishi.

    Although there are much cheaper makes available the quality will be much less and will last a great deal less costing much more than the initial savings to repair or even replace a few years later.

    There is even a gas system (same gas as in your kitchen) which runs the heating side of things which is incorporated into the ducting on ducted units which might save you heating costs in the long term but these might be quite costly up front. I have not had any experience working on/with these units but thought they worth looking into though.

    Regrow

    Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for your input:)

    After doing some research, and reading your comments – it’s clear that wall mounted reverse cycle units are the best way to go. These units seem very popular and are fairly easy to install.

    I actually priced up the house using a 3hp Mitsubishi (26sv) for $1450 and another 1hp unit in the front of the house. However the problem I’m having is the installation location, as these units have to be placed on an external wall. (If you place them on an internal wall then you have to run the cables etc through to an external wall – where the fan is)

    All suitable external walls in the house have large windows from the floor to the ceiling. There is one suitable wall – though the air con company was saying that the unit wouldn’t work well there as it wouldn’t allow for much flow of the air.

    This is why I’ve gone done the road of ducted air con.

    Unfortunately I only have a budget of $3,600 for air con, so ducted refrigerated will be too expensive to install. Plus I’ve heard they cost more to run? (the ducted versions).

    I had a couple of quotes yesterday which came between $3,445 – 4,200.

    My problem now is selecting the best brand:)

    The cheaper quotes recommend using a “Coolair” unit. Has anyone had a Coolair unit installed? Does anyone reccomend other units??

    Derek, I’ve heard that if you install air vents at the other end of the ceiling this allows the hot air to escape the house – eg, without having to leave the windows opened slightly.

    Cheers guys!

    Wayne

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

    Profile photo of KICKS 66KICKS 66
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    @kicks-66
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 20

    Dear wayne,With the limited experience I have had with Air-con in the Perth environs I would suggest orientating toward re-frig,this method can cool/heat quickly thus can be set 1/2 hr. before arriving home so is not in use during time not in the residence, also allows for year round use.Evap. is great for summer given you have doors/windows left open for airflow and the weather is not humid as this significantly reduces its effectiveness (as some one pointed out earlier you can switch off the water and use fan only for cooling)Evap. are ideal in a commercial situation where you have constant foot traffic in and out of the building and in fact are cheaper to run than refrig.in that situation.As you are doing it for the tenant you are not having to pay the costs of running (wear and tear excepted)and you are providing them with an all year round temperature control.One other consideration with Evap. is if the airflow is inadequate it can result in development of mould and mildew inside the building(paint cupboards clothes etc.)I hope this helps in your thoughts.Regards Mitchell.

    Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    thanks kicks:)

    Though do ducted refrig air con units cost more to install?? My budget is only $3,600:(

    I would love to install the reverse cycle wall units – though the design of the house doesn’t really cater for this:(

    thanks

    Wayne

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

    Profile photo of KICKS 66KICKS 66
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    @kicks-66
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 20

    Wayne, unsure on any install. costs,quotes probably best way for market/average price make sure however that comparision is same i.e apples for apples.,get breakdown on all aspects labour, unit, power etc. My understanding is initially Evap is cheaper to purchase.Another thought is if a number of other people are looking at buying to join up to secure a better deal.Regards Mitchell.

    Profile photo of MTRMTR
    Participant
    @marisa
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 663

    Hi Wayne
    We have refrig and Evap in different props.

    Cant say which is best as there is Good and bad with both systems.

    Can I suggest you pm DD, I was impressed with his prices. Cheers[biggrin]

    Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    Thanks Marisa:)

    yeah, overall refrig seems to the better of the two, though i don’t think i can justify spending the extra on install… after all i need to stick to the budget:)

    hey, if u get a chance PM me about ya little project! would love to hear how it’s going:)

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

    Profile photo of kpkp
    Member
    @kp
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 509

    Hi Wayne,
    Excuse the tongue in cheek reply earlier.
    Seems like you have had plenty of response anyway.
    As mentioned already, the evap systems tend to lose their effectiveness once humidity goes beyond 80% and also once temp goes above approx 35 degrees.
    Hence no evap systems installed in places like Kalgoorlie and up north..only refrigerated.

    The evap system is cheaper to install for a whole house, and is very much cheaper to run.

    However, you can normally get away with maybe two splits, one in the common kitchen, meals, family room ( if this is the layout of the home) and one in the master bedroom, so it should cost you less in total if you do this.

    Maybe even install just one in the living area, this is what I am planning for the rentals currently under construction.

    Sounds like quite an unusual design in the house with the ceiling to floor windows, and as you said, this may restrict the choice especially with regard to the splits.

    My experience to date includes a ducted evap in the house in Perth which becomes ineffective once temp and humidity climbs too high, a ducted refrigerated in the house up north which was quiet, but expensive to run, and a set of splits (6 in total, which replaced the refrigerated system when it broke down) which are cheaper to run but much noisier in the rooms.

    All the same, I am sure you will come up with an answer once you get an expert in to advise and quote on the house.

    All the best,

    KP

    Profile photo of RegrowRegrow
    Member
    @regrow
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 77

    Hi Wayne

    My personal opinion is Daikin is a far superior brand in quality and performance. Other good brands are LG and Mitsubishi.

    As a qualified Refrigeration / Airconditioning Mechanic although not working in the field at present.The indoor unit is hung on an external wall as preference to the installer (easy install).

    They can be hung on an internal wall also. Although you will have to run the pipe work up into the ceiling then out through the eves to the condensing unit (outdoor unit). The piping can be hidden inside trunking, usually about 300-350mm long. The total pipe run should not exceed 15meters from inside to outside or more refigerant would be required.(more costs)

    You can even get units that allow up to 4 indoor units run from 1 outdoor unit. These are good if you want to add indoor units to other rooms at a later date or when funds are available. Remember each pipe run has max 15 meters, so central location of outdoor unit should be taken into consideration.

    Regrow

    You are a fool for 5 seconds if you ask a question, but a fool for life if you don’t.

    Profile photo of thecrestthecrest
    Participant
    @thecrest
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 992

    Hi Regrow
    Thanks for the info, and thanks to the rest of you who provided input. It’ll help me a lot.
    cheers
    thecrest

    thecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
    http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    selling motels in NSW

    Profile photo of waynel2waynel2
    Member
    @waynel2
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 311

    Hi guys,

    thanks for your input:)

    I’ve got an air con guy coming out during the week to view the property and make suggestions.

    If I do go down the evap track, I’ve been weighing up two makes:

    – Celair (made by bonaire)
    – Coolair (made by Breezeair)

    Has anyone had any experience with these two models? Regrow, do you recommend either of these makes?? (btw, regrow – thanks for your detailed reply:)

    Cheers

    Wayne

    Wayne Leech

    *Below are links to my websites – any feedback, comments would be appreciated:)
    http://www.landsearcher.com.au – List your land for FREE (Private sellers only)
    http://www.homesearcher.com.au – List your property for FREE (Private sellers only)

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