Viewing 7 posts - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
  • Profile photo of delboydelboy
    Member
    @delboy
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 80

    Hi All

    Can anyone tell me what the situation is with cgt and wraps?

    Do you pay cgt when the contract is signed with the wrapee at the start of the contract?

    Do you pay it at the end of the agreement when the actual title is exchanged?

    Or do you avoid cgt as it becomes part of your income stream?

    I can’t find any reference to this anywhere and I am about two weeks away from investing in my wrap kit.

    Delboy[cap]

    Profile photo of rebecca2rebecca2
    Member
    @rebecca2
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 54

    Good question,

    I asked my accountant this very same question 3 weeks ago. Although I have just purchased the wrap kit and you get wrap support with it so I will ask the question here.

    Beck.
    “You have to leave your mouth open for a very long time before a roast chicken flys into it.” Early Proveb.

    Profile photo of JairusJairus
    Member
    @jairus
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 6

    If you go to “search” under forums on this website and put in the keywords such as CGT etc, you will find a lot of useful information on this topic. It has been discussed quite intensively before and there is some very good information on this site. There is a post by Julia from Bantacs which i feel is extremely useful
    Cheers
    Jairus[biggrin]

    Profile photo of FFCommFFComm
    Member
    @ffcomm
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 627

    CGT is not payable on wraps. From memeory it comes under ’emerging profits’, but I would suggest as Jairus suggeted, do a search for it (it is contained in the now defunct wraps and vendor finance section (near the very bottom of the forums list)). But as I said before no CGT.

    Rgds.
    Lucifer_au

    Profile photo of Paul DobsonPaul Dobson
    Participant
    @pauldobson
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,196

    Here is a previous excellent post from Julia on the subject.

    Cheers, Paul

    “If the Vendor Finance arrangement has the following features the income stream received, once the wrap arrangement has begun, is considered to be principle and interest by the ATO. The income stream received before the wrap arrangement is entered into is considered rent. Reference ID2003/968.
    Typical Features of a Wrap (Vendor Finance Arrangement)
    1) The purchaser pays a deposit at the time of entering into the arrangement.
    2) The settlement (change of the title deed to the purchaser) does not take place for several years after the arrangement is entered into.
    3) The purchaser has the right to occupy the property prior to settlement
    4) The purchaser pays a weekly amount (regardless of the name it is given in the arrangement) for the right to occupy the property
    5) As part of the arrangement the purchaser pays the rates, taxes and insurances on the property.
    6) The balance of the purchase price to be paid on settlement of the arrangement is reduced by the weekly instalments.
    7) If the purchaser fails to complete the arrangement the deposit and weekly instalments are forfeited.

    Now what about the profit on the sale of the property? Is that normal income or capital gain and when is it taxable? Assuming an agreement similar to that described above the answer to this question revolves around whether the vendor is in the business of selling houses or an investor just realising an investment. The key issues in differentiating here, according to ID2004/25, 26 & 27 are:
    1) The Vendor did not use the property for any other purpose than to enter into the wrap. A straight rental of a property before entering into a wrap arrangement would avoid this point.
    2) The property was sold at a profit
    3) The wrap arrangement was entered into within 6 months of the vendor purchasing the property.
    4) The Vendor is in the business of purchasing properties to resell. It would be difficult for the ATO to argue this case if the Vendor only bought and sold one property.

    If you are caught by all of the above then CGT cannot apply to the sale of the property as the profit on the sale is revenue in nature. If a transaction is caught as income, CGT does not apply or in other words CGT is the last option if income tax doesn’t catch it. But even if you weren’t caught by the above and CGT applied there would be no discount if the property was held for under 12 months. If you did hold the property for less than 12 months before entering into the wrap it is better to argue that you are in business and caught by the above because the profit on sale would be revenue in nature and as a result not assessable until settlement which could be 25 years away (ID2004/27). If you hold the property for less than 12 months but it is subject to CGT you don’t qualify for the discount but would be assessable on the profit when entering into the wrap.
    Section 104-15(1) of ITAA 1997 states that a CGT event happens when the owner of a property enters into an arrangement with another party to allow them to live in the property and title may transfer at the end of the arrangement. Section 104-10(3) states that the time the CGT event happens is the time of entering into a contract for the disposal of the asset, not when settlement (title passes) takes place.
    For example this means that the vendor who enters into a wrap on a property that has been previously used as a rental and held for more than 6 months will be subject to CGT on the property in the financial year the wrap agreement is entered into. Accordingly, if at this stage the property has not been held for 12 months no CGT discount will be available even if they eventually end up holding the property for 25 years under the arrangement.

    More information on rental properties is available on my web site in the rental property booklet. All free http://www.bantacs.com.au

    [email protected]

    Paul Dobson | Vendor Finance Institute
    http://www.vendorfinanceinstitute.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    An alternative way to finance your home.

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
    Keymaster
    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 1,763

    Hi Beck,

    This issue is discussed in Chapter 6 of the Wrap Kit. I’m an avocate of the emerging profits basis and from memory there are worked examples to help you understand how to cruch the numbers at tax time.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of delboydelboy
    Member
    @delboy
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 80

    Hi All

    Thanks for your replys.

    That post by Julia is very informative.

    Steve, the next investment is the Wrap Kit, talked to Brent already.

    Delboy[cap]

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