- kay henryMember@kay-henryJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 2,737
Luckyone, your story is why I used my example about my ex’s uncle loaning us money. He would have put all kinds of values, expectations and interest into our lives, that we didn;t want or need (that’s the kind of man he was).
When we borrow from a bank, they don’t resent us, they don’t suggest our relationship might break up. They don’t ask us for a ten-year financial plan… they just loan to us *objectively*. I blieve parents would give to kids because they love them- not for the parents to profit- and not to have some form of control over the kids’ lives. I reckon if a parent is going to loan money, they have to “act like a bank, but give like a parent.” If the daughter then makes a bad decision, you can’t harp on about it forever. Give freely, or not at all.
kay henryluckyoneMember@luckyoneJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 148
Exactly Kay, that’s why I was so upset. I didn’t understand why my parents wouldn’t lend me the money when I had always had a good track of saving up for things that I wanted to buy. Unfortunately, I couldn’t show the bank what I had saved as my records were too old by the time I went to apply for the loan. They wanted records of the past 6 months of savings, I didn’t have any at that time as I had lent the money to a friend in need. Bank’s don’t really understand that.
LuckyoneAceyduceyParticipant@aceyduceyJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 651
My parents charged my sister board after she continued living at home while having a good income (the rest of us moved out before this point)….when she decided to go buy her first place they gave her all the board money back plus interest!
They’d just been letting it build up as a way to help her save for her first property
I’m thinking about doing this with my kids.
Wow guys! so many responses, and personal stories. I truly appreciate all the valuable input and viewpoints.
Family matters are a sensitive issue because they immediately bring to mind our own experiences and the advice we offer is always heavily influenced buy our own story.
You all make good points.
Give a man a fish etc: True, but … when I was 29 my wife was still finishing her medical degree and I was working 10 hour days and 2 kids to look after, I had moved houses some 3 times and getting sick of it.
My father in law came one day and asked me to take the day off. We bought the newspaper and went to see some properties in the area, picked one, and he paid for it in full and in cash, and gave it to us as a present. When we came to Australia, the money from our first house was the deposit for a house in Sydney, and I settled my number 8 IP two weeks ago.
So the fish story is not necessarily always so.
Aceyducey,I like the idea of charging board and setting it aside for daughter 3, still at home, thank you.
Luckyone, you are correct. Help one and not the other and you start resentment. That is precisely what I don’t want to do. That is why I proposed to buy one property 1/4 each, all equal shares even when my eldest daughter was maxed out and could not borrow any further and my youngest one has a good job but no deposit nor equity, so we got the loan based on my equity and our income.
Yet at the time, the one that would have benefit the most, opted out. The other two had a helping hand and the one I indented to help has nothing.
Wejons1Part of being a parent (my opinion) is to try and provide your kids with options and opportunities that you didn’t have.
Everyone is different, some learn some don’t, and everyone learns at different rates too.
Give them the opportunity, do what you feel is best for you and your children and if they let it slip then you have done all you can.
Everyone learns at a different rate and in different ways. I feel that my dear daughter and son in law will benefit from some form of help that puts them into a house they can call their own even if they need to make repayments for a long time.
How to do it without ever having to hear from one of the others that I “gave” them something I did not the others, is my dilemma.
However, may be I am being overly careful (?)
Kay Henry, your opinion is interesting (do you have children?), you seem to see it from “the other side of the fence” as a kid would. Why would one sibling resent the other? why in deed! I know I did. When my parents split up my mother put our house on my brother’s name to keep it from my father. We where 18 then and I did resent it.
Lucifer, you remind me a famous beekeeper that wrote a revolutionary book in the 70tiesm about bee keeping. Against all the traditional literature he said (in a nut shell), spend you energy not in helping the struggling beehive, but in maximising the one that is doing well. Spend less energy for better overall results.
True . . .only that our kids are not beehives nor subsidiaries.
Piscis, I agree with you. We are parents for life, not just for 16 years.
The point of my post was not so much about telling you my life stories, but to see if someone had some practical suggestion as to how can I help my daughter to have her own house.
Today I was trawling the net for houses with a granny flat. It occurred to me that perhaps buying a house with a G/F that can be rented would just make it possible for them to make the repayments.
Residentialwealth, yes, you are right. Some practical ideas would not go amiss.
Calvin…clever! She missed out the first time, I can help her now. True.
Hope the others see it that way too. Any ideas as to how?
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcelvesMember@elvesJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 507
I agree with so much that has been said, I will try to limit mine.
I have a close family, and I went once to help my brother, but things didnt work for a few reasons, and it worked out the best possible.
I help a relative by renting them a place, that they know they can call home, and I benefit they only get 10 a week of the rent and a few more luxuries than other tenants, eg air con dish washer
I would not help my sister with a mortgage
I would hesitate to help my brother with one.
Why, because I have gone without in order to do what I ahve done. Why because, in giving something to them, or handing it to them they dont learn, and they dont have to fight and they dont value the hardship.
Now that would change if, I knew they would forego the new tvs, the excessive pets or foods, the always buying junk mode. I know you can say its not my place to judge them, well it is if it my money I am putting up.
I take a harsh line with both of them as I have seen both earn more than me, I ahve sene my parents lend them money and it was never repaid.
So I think you need to work out for yourself what the go is, and only you know this.
I have one daughter.Some know the story, and it was sad for a while, but what gave my daughter hope was that I made her an offer. I bought a home, she found it, she did all the work to get the deal and it will be hers for the price of the loan outstanding. Now I get tax deductions and I lose the benefit of having that money/ She gets the increase in value but she pays me above market rent for the priviledge.
She keeps the payments up, she knows the home will be hers one day when she is on her feet.
If she applied now, she would get the fhgo, a big bonus, that is her deposit.
I would not see my family starve, or on the streets, but they also need to learn the value of what they do and how to do it. call me hard, but my daughter has not defaulted once! She pays 220 a week rent on the dot!
” a blind man may see what a sighted man may not”MillyMember@millyJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 288
eeek marc im glad my kids are still at primary school. If I were you I would wait till you were approached by your daughter and husb for assistance.
You offered them help last year and they declined. Actually it is curious the amount of people that all agree its a great idea to invest but never actually take the plunge… but i digress.
THey don’t sound all that motivated. Hubby as a teacher could get a job in NT tomorrow with a house provided free by the department. Two yrs there they could have their deposit saved.
best of luckkay henryMember@kay-henryJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 2,737
Kay Henry, your opinion is interesting (do you have children?), you seem to see it from “the other side of the fence” as a kid would. Why would one sibling resent the other? why in deed! I know I did. When my parents split up my mother put our house on my brother’s name to keep it from my father. We where 18 then and I did resent it.”
Well yes, I will always be my parents’ kid. So will the rest of my siblings. My parents love us all equally, but sometimes each of us need different things, because we are all different people. In my family, not only do we have parental support, but support from siblings. We all have different relationships with our parents than the other does, and with our siblings too. We just don’t do the jealousy/resentment thing- it’s not in our makeup, I suppose, and I feel lucky for that. That doesn’t mean we all get along all the time- not at all, but if someone needs something, that’s always been between the two parties- whomever that might be- and not a “family affair”. We would be considered a very emotionally close family, and I guess that means that finances are not hugely interesting regarding “allocation” because we are all so VASTLY different to one another, so we never compare ourselves with the other. Hope that makes sense, Marc – it’s just desiderata (“never compare yourself…”) in practice.
kay henryDerekMember@derekJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 3,544
I have briefly skimmed the thread and apologies if I missed the relevant bit – but is the fact your daughter doesn’t have a ‘house’ an issue for them or you?
It may be they are blissfully happy doing what they are doing anyway and don’t want your assistance.
On the other hand maybe they are being ‘stubborn’ and are regretting not taking up the earlier offer and now don’t know how to broach the subject with you.
Given you have already assisted the other sisters it is possible that they would understand if you now wanted to help the other sister.
Seems to me there are so many ‘what ifs’ and ‘how wills’ being thrown around that it is time to talk and clear the air and see what transpires.
If you never ask you’ll never know.
Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.elvesMember@elvesJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 507
my brother and sister think I have had it easy, I am the middle child and i did all the balancing.
They think im my parents favourite, but that is only because i earnt their respect. I didnt ask for money! ( I did later, but it got repaid)
my sister got bought a car, she wrote it off
My brother got a car and new stuff
my sister got a 21st, my brother an 18th
I got neither
My sister got a lavish wedding at the golf club
my brother got a Coffs harbour resort
I got the dive RSL
My sister was allowed out
my brother was never home!
I was never allowed out
so tell me? we all have a different stroy adn we all (meanign siblings) have a differenet perception, try asking yours what they think at the next family gathering and you will be amazed.
Truth is, I was never treated as they were nor got what they got, sister eldest got way with so much, brother youngest was baby favourite.
But they think I got the best deal…go fiure, there is jealousy, but you learnt to live with it.
” a blind man may see what a sighted man may not”
Mm, yes some more good points, it probably bothers me more then them.
Now lets for a moment put all the very valid personal considerations aside.
Do you have any practical suggetions as to how to go about it? I thought about a house with a granny flat, or buying a house 1/2 each. They could probably pay 300 per week I must probably throw 200 in the mix, or 100 if the g/f is rented.
What do you think, how would you do it if you were to do it that is.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcaussierogueParticipant@aussierogueJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 983
i reckon we should all be careful not to push our middle class asperations on to our children. this discussion is primarily about achieving through property some kind of financial security. the truth is to a certain extent its all a bit of a myth.
again must say kay has hit it on your head. you can avoid sibling rivalry and all the messy stuff by creating a household where this kind off stuff aint that important. like kay i grew up in a house where this kind of jealousy resentment thing was not ignored but was always put into perspective by my parents.
teach yr kids to enjoy the things in life that dont involve money. teach them that the struggle is part of the fun, help them out if you want to, and dont if you think they are taking advantage…
horses for courses
i like aceys idea about charging board then giving it back with interest.
marc – im sorry i got no ideas whats best for yr family. reckon yr ideas are all valid…go for it.calvin_thirty4Participant@calvin_thirty4Join Date: 2004Post Count: 556
just a quickie –
- First find out where your daughter is at! What do they want? If they want your help, proceed to point two, “otherwise just hang up……”
- Then involve the other two daughters to help ‘coach’ or come up with ideas on how to over come the situation. Whaqt to do next kinda thing – reminding them that they would have helped each other out in the school yard, so why not do it now.
- Once everything is happy propose and work them thru a number of options YOU are happy offering (the granny flat may be too far ahead of where they are at – mind set!).
Offer a financial solution and CONTRACT each parties involvement, responsibilities and conflict resolution procedure(!!!) as this may very well be the thing that stops bad rental payment habits to develop (you know a set procedure of “you don’t stick your nose into my business and I promis to pay on time” kinda thing).
My prefrence would be vendor finance (you by a house that fit all the criterion – they like it and it is affordable) where you buy the place and they then buy it off you. No need for RE and minimal fees!
So much for the quickie bit…. Does this help? I wouldn’t push the G/F issue unless they see the benefits of it and have the kind of mind set that embraces the growing of wealth thru property. My thoughts – you have to make the decision before they can.
Cheersezy.home.loans23320Member@ezy.home.loans23320Join Date: 2003Post Count: 144
my thoughts also,
ok you want to help your child ,”doen’t everyone?”
but be smart, ask your child separatly . why she thinks she still does not own a house ,ask her husband the same question.then look between the lines..is it because they as a couple can not find their feet , or is it one has not got the will to work hard? is one thinking some one else should provide for my family , why should I work hard and scrafic?who gets the house if they divorce,? Dont give this family a reason to think daddy will give it to me.By all means buy a house for your family member subsidize the payments if you need to , give them a time limit when you think they will be able to pay their own way, and keep the house in your name untill they are in a position to say..ok we can do it on our own now dad …sign the house over to them and ask they pay you back to amount you have subsidized the payments . just an idea , if your family feels that they dont want a hand out offer to pay the child care in order to let your daughter earn her own way..or get her husband a second parttime job.
I bet you had to scrimp and save when you first started out…Me I bought my house when i was 17
my husband 18 and I had a job and hubby had 3 jobs and we had 2 kids befor we could buy carpet or what we would call new furniture .
we where so proud of our first home. Dont take that away from your child …she also needs to feel pride in what she has achieved
Maurn I ain’t no[angel] I’m a [satan]in disguizeFFCommMember@ffcommJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 627
What about buying an inexpensive but big house first… Mabye a big house 4 bdr, and the rent to foreign exchange students (you could fit up 3 (2 per bdr)). Of course they may have to move further out if the area is expensive.
Perhaps build a place with a granny flat (so two tennants).
Sorry to harp on this point, but I really do think if you actually start paying them regular money (for their mortgage) that could actually build more resebtment than if you just loaned them the dollars (as one daughter could say, you gave them $100 p/w for the last 3 yrs. why can’t you do the ssame for me. SO it would be better to loan them the money. I would talk about it to your other daughters.
Lucifer_aumelbearMember@melbearJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 2,429
Marc, a couple of things
Talk to all of your daughters, and ask them what the others would think of you trying to help this one out. If they are amenable, then good – if not, dig deep and find out why not. You have ‘helped’ them out by buying that IP with them.
Then as has been said, talk to your daughter and her hubby separately. Hubby may not like taking on any debt whatsoever.
My sister’s husband is like that, and has vetoed many options where they could have purchased and made squillions.
My Dad also wants to help out my younger brother with buying a house. He’s ‘lived a good life’ (except that his GF died in a car crash 18 months ago), and has nothing to show for it. My older brother has a PPOR, and an IP (that I found for him, organised etc. etc.) I own an IP with my sister (two actually), and she has a PPOR. I live at hime virtually rent free.
I haven’t thought about talking to the others about Dad helping my brother (i’m helping Dad to find ways to help) – I’ve just assumed it would be ok. He is especially at a disadvantage in that the house he will be purchasing, is more than double, and almost triple what my other siblings paid for similar or better houses. So he’s going to need a hand with the monthly repayments.
I’ve been working out a way whereby I can help him with that, but at the same time, help out the others – with less of a ‘hand’ as their payments are substantially less also – so in proportion really.
Perhaps you should chat with your daughter about purchasing an IP, and seeing if they can pay that off any quicker by using tax deductions, and any ‘spare’ cash and the tenant of course – maybe that is an easier way to get them ‘into the market’. Of course, if hubby is like my brother in law – it might be interesting…..
MelwrapfinderMember@wrapfinderJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 8
Hi Marc, You asked for practical ideas, and so i thought i would throw in that i know of a house available for around $290,000 with 4 bedrooms, only 5 yrs old at Bow Bowing. If you wrapped it to your daughter and chose to charge a less-than-usual percentage rate of say 7% they will only be paying $450 a week, there is depreciation in it and it will achieve capital growth as it is a good area for that over time. You said you want to move to Camden which is onyl half an hour away. Just a thought. I am new at all this. The trouble with getting a place with a granny flat to rent as a supporting income is not knowing who you have to share your backyard with. Some people will think this is much too ‘giving’ – handed on a platter. Whether a gift is useful or not depends on the people involved. For some people a gift empowers them and for others it supports unhealthy dependency and helplessness. you have to know the people involved to know what would be helpful. as for your other children, sounds simple but why not just ask them how they would feel about you giving a hand up to her. There can be a range of valid reasons why one person or couple hasn’t developed the same financial strength as another. Maybe, part time work was to do with being present for children. Would that there was more of that in our society.
Thank you for the suggestion taurus, I never heard of that area so I will check it out first.
Yes, I agree that we all make our choices and have our reasons for what we do.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcwrapfinderMember@wrapfinderJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 8
Hi Marc, just a few additonal thoughts i meant to say yesterday. As Pisces said, why incur stamp duty twice? Maybe financing the property to your daughter would be better on the basis of a contract. Also, meant to say that that house is brick, and i have no connection with it. Just found out about it on the weekend while doing some wrap research from local agents. It was more of an example than anything.