All Topics / Help Needed! / dividing property 100% me 0% my wife – good idea ?

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  • Profile photo of n0ahz0rkn0ahz0rk
    Member
    @n0ahz0rk
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 16

    Hi,

    I’m in the process of buying a slightly negative CF IP with the intent to have some capital gain over 10 years or so. I have put the property in my name only (as I earn more and pay 48.5% tax), though I have used my PPOR for security on 100% +costs loan. I jointly own my PPOR with my wife 50-50 so my wife has to be a party on the IP loan. There is a form (Borrowers Acknowledgement) that the lender requires her to sign stating that she is satisfied she will get some benefit out of this loan.

    1st – is it a good idea to purchase the IP in my name only ?

    2nd – what benefit does my wife get from this loan – is a share of the capital gain (throught the whole what’s mine’s yours thing) a reasonable benefit ?

    Thanks,
    Andrew.

    Profile photo of PurpleKissPurpleKiss
    Participant
    @purplekiss
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 580

    I guess you could say she gets a reasonable benefit because if you guys split she can still take you for her share through the courts. That’s reasonalbe isn’t it? SOunds terrible I know, but I’m sure she would benefit. We have a negative geared house in my husbands name only and a positive geared house in my name only but all loans are in both names. We’ve never had to sign anything like that though.

    As to whether it should be in just your name or both names, that depends how long it will be negative geared for and when you plan on selling, retiring etc. If it’s only negatively geared for a year or two and then it with rental increases etc it turns around to be +ve geared then it might not be worth while as you’d be paying the higher rate tax on the porpety for the next few years until you retire or sell the porperty in 10 years time.

    Is it too late to see your accountant and get them to do a forecast over 10 years so you can see when it might change from -ve geared. It’s only a forecast as assumptions will need to be made regarding inflation, possible rent increases, interest rate changes etc, but it’s a starting point.

    Also what I do on all contracts when buying is state that the buyer is “MY NAME and/or nominee”, then in the conditions on the back of the offer I put ” The nominee is MY HUSBANDS NAME”. This then gives me time before settlement to work out the figures over the next 10 years to ascertain whose name it would be best in.

    Profile photo of redwingredwing
    Participant
    @redwing
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,733

    Or look at a TRUST structure..depends on your individual circumstance..

    REDWING

    HI PK HOW YA DOIN ?

    “Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”

    Profile photo of RugbyfanRugbyfan
    Member
    @rugbyfan
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 683

    As my wife earns all the money, we have put her at 99.9% ownership on title and me .1% for the negative geared properties. The +ve will be 99.9%in my name so she does not have to pay extra tax on it.

    ‘Eat rich food, barbeque a yuppie’

    Profile photo of n0ahz0rkn0ahz0rk
    Member
    @n0ahz0rk
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 16

    Thanks for the replies….

    I think it’s too late to do anything differently now… settlement is 22/03, but I don’t think it will be positive CF for 5+ years as i’m paying interest only loan.

    Sounds like it’s a good idea to have an accountant that knows about all this… can anyone reccommend one in Syd CBD or Campbelltown NSW ?

    Profile photo of Still in SchoolStill in School
    Member
    @still-in-school
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,844
    Originally posted by redwing:

    Or look at a TRUST structure..depends on your individual circumstance..

    Agree with Redwing.

    Cheers,
    sis

    People 4get that by saving just $3 a day & investing it sensibly
    over a working life, you’ll end up with around $1 million

    Profile photo of n0ahz0rkn0ahz0rk
    Member
    @n0ahz0rk
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 16

    What’s the best way for me to find out about TRUSTs and how to start one – is there good information freely available ?

    Profile photo of woodsmanwoodsman
    Member
    @woodsman
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 714

    Do a search on this site under trusts and also http://www.somersoft.com.au also has good information as well.

    ‘Trust Magic’ is an excellent resource ($99). I have recently purchased it and suits someone just in the process of commencing their trust knowledge. Can only be bought directly through Gatherum Goss & Associates (their accountants in Melbourne).

    James

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I would have done things differently.

    It seems you have cross securitised the IP loan with your existing home, and your wife is going guarrantor to your IP loan as she is part owner of one of the securities.

    A safer and more flexible way to do it would be to withdraw funds on the existing loan (eg loan increase, redraw or LOC), and then get a separate loan (without the wife) on the new IP. This limits your exposure and is easier to get further loans.

    I would also have used a trust. In fact, if you talk to a solicitor, it may still be possible to slip a trust in to this deal.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of Kiwi-FullaKiwi-Fulla
    Member
    @kiwi-fulla
    Join Date: 2002
    Post Count: 371

    I agree with Terry….To a point.. Alarm bells a ringing here….
    I think you have just signed up to give the bank the right to pull both properties from under your castle if you default on either contract….. Most common trick in the bankers book of dastardly deeds I am afraid!!!
    Hope you have not gone through the whole process yet or if you have … it may cost you some coinage to get out from under this arrangement by refinancing out and holding each property under it’s own security.
    Anyway my best suggestion is to seek some legal and tax advice from the appropriate proffessionals to get a better picture on your situation and be more informed as to your options and stratagy planning.

    Personally I do not like LOC’s as they will take your house if you default … where as an unsecured credit card will just bring the sherrif a knockin’

    Did you know that the banks invented the LOC as they researched the market to find a most profitable cash cow for them?… how??? the statistics showed that over 85% of clients would not pay down their loans at all and would blow the equity on consumables ::: Holidays, Boats , Cars… you know the drill!! [:)]
    Then the banks also knew that most LOC clients would then move the loan over to a P & I loan … giving the bank more funds in fees and ongoing business….. So I guess the moral of the story is … if you are extremely diligent and disciplined go for the LOC… also remember the LOC is normally at around 0.5% higher than the basic P & I with the ability to draw down on the equity anyway…. but not so easily… still this type of arrangement will not be a show stopper when hunting down deals as usually you can get the funds released within 10 working days.
    NB: These are my express opinions and are not to be construed as advice in any way …. always use your own due diligence and research before deciding.
    Good luck!
    Cheers
    Kiwi
    [:D]

    Profile photo of melbearmelbear
    Member
    @melbear
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,429

    Kiwi, all (both) my LOCs are only .1% above the standard rate. If you get .5% off the standard rate anyway, you still do quite well.

    I agree with Terry re the structuring too.

    Nick Moustacas http://www.strategicwealthmanagement.com.au is in Sydney somewhere!

    Cheers
    Mel

    Profile photo of HueyHuey
    Participant
    @huey
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 213

    Hi Andrew,

    As I understand there are many advantages in buying IP under Trust but there are also a few disadvantages like:

    – can’t claim loss against your taxable income.
    – 0 thredhold on land UV (unimproved value) for land tax in all states except ACT & NT.

    These can be few thousand of dollars out of your pocket in the 1st few years. Pls check with your accountant and do your sum before making decision.

    Can anyone correct if my understanding is wrong.

    Regards

    Huey

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