All Topics / Legal & Accounting / To Trust or not to!

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 31 total)
  • Profile photo of jcarlos65jcarlos65
    Member
    @jcarlos65
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 13

    Hi all,

    I am presently preparing my financial structure to commence the purchase of my first IP!
    I recently visited an accountant and was informed that the best for me would be a Trust costing approx.$2,000.
    Is this what most IP investors have? and is the cost standard?

    Regards
    JCarlos

    Profile photo of JulianJulian
    Member
    @julian
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 232

    What kind of trust you want ?

    Julian

    THERE IS ALWAYS A BETTER WAY!

    Profile photo of JetDollarsJetDollars
    Participant
    @jetdollars
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,435

    If you are looking for Asset Protection then Hybrid Discretionary Trust is the way to go.

    Try this out:

    http://www.chrisbatten.com.au

    Warm Regards

    ChanDollars
    [Keep going, you’re on your way to Frolic Freedom!]

    Profile photo of The DIY Dog WashThe DIY Dog Wash
    Member
    @the-diy-dog-wash
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 696

    Hybrid Discretionary Trut is only used when you are planing to buy CF+ and Neg geared properties.

    Otherwise if you are only buying cf+ thn a standard family trust is all you need.

    Yes most investors have a trust structure set up for asset protection and the cost varies between 1700 and 2000 this includes the set up of your company as well.

    Keep in mind a trust is really only needed if you are planning on buying a lot of properties, if you are only ever going to buy one or two then don’t bother with the trust.

    Also do a search of the forum and you will find tons of info about trusts.

    Good luck

    cheers
    Leigh K[:D]

    Carve your own path and lead the way.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    It is probably best to get it right from the beginning. I use a trust structure and recommend them.

    You can actually set up a discretionary trust from $275 + stamp duty.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of PeterG_2PeterG_2
    Member
    @peterg_2
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 9

    Dear Terry,

    I have just been looking into the advantages of a family trusts or other type of trusts for property investment. Is this the sort you utilise and how do they work or operate to ones advantage.

    I have heard that it is better to have a company set up as the trustee with yourself as the director. This all seems very complicated. Who do you see to set this up?

    Looking forward to your reply,

    PeterG

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    PeterG

    I have a few trusts, but generally just use a discretionary Trust (ie family trust) with individual trustees.

    The trustee purchases assets on behalf of the beneficiaries of the trust. Just think of opening a bank account for a child. They ‘own’ the money, but you manage it for them. it is just like that.

    The benefits are asset protection (as you don’t own the trust assets) and tax reduction, by enabling the income to be distributed to the lowest tax payers (amoung the beneficiaries).

    Setting up a company as trustee is not necessary, but adds to the safety of the structure.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of MTRMTR
    Participant
    @marisa
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 663

    Hi All, can someone help…. we purchased properties in both names. From what I read Trust seems to be a better option, so can we now transfer these properties into some type of trust?

    Cheers

    Profile photo of woodsmanwoodsman
    Member
    @woodsman
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 714

    Marisa,
    Yes, you can. But not without incurring stamp duty.

    James

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    For the $275 trust deeds, please have a look at
    http://www.LawCentral.com.au

    They also have a lot of good general info.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of MTRMTR
    Participant
    @marisa
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 663

    thanks all you cluey people out there.

    I will have to look at trusts in future when purchasing my next property.

    Cheers.

    Profile photo of JulianJulian
    Member
    @julian
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 232
    Originally posted by Terryw:

    PeterG

    I have a few trusts, but generally just use a discretionary Trust (ie family trust) with individual trustees.

    Hi Terry,
    In what circumstances we will need many trusts? Why not all in One?

    Regards
    Julian [8)]

    THERE IS ALWAYS A BETTER WAY!

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Julian

    With the first trust I set up, I had both me and the wife as trustees. I didn’t realise at the time, but buying in two names or two trustees giving guarrantees severly limits your borrowing capacity. So I have set up some more, one each. I also have a unit trust for some joint investments, with the unit holder being my discretionary trust.

    It is also an idea to keep your business and properties in a different trust, just in case.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of melbearmelbear
    Member
    @melbear
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,429

    Is not another reason that you can limit the liability to only those assets owned by the entity that gets sued (I’m still unsure as to whether or not they are totally safe – I’ve read conflicting reports).

    Also, I think having assets in different entities prevents the ‘millionaire’ land tax that NSW and perhaps other states impose once your land value is at a certain level.

    Cheers
    Mel

    Profile photo of et003et003
    Member
    @et003
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 8

    Dear Terry,

    How much does it limit your borrowing capacity, can you still loan upto 80% or is it a case by case basis?

    As I’m new to IP’s, can you set this up yourself without an accountant using the website you provided?

    As I’m currently working overseas I should probably still talk to my accountant regarding the right structure if I intend to buy more than 2/3 IP’s.

    Thanks

    Cheers

    ET

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    ET

    Yes you can still borrow up to 80% or even 95% using a trust. But if you have two trustees, both have to guarrantee the loan. so this is where it hurts your borrowing capacity. You could be saving one person for future loans.

    eg the mortgage insurers have a limit of about $1.5mil (for both). If you were joint trustees you could only borrow up to $1.5mil. But if you each had a trust with one individual trustee (or one director of the trustee company), then you would get $1.5mil each = $3mil in borrowing capacity.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of et003et003
    Member
    @et003
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 8
    Profile photo of geogeo
    Member
    @geo
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1,194

    You have great knowledge Terry…thanks

    If You never never ask, you’ll never never know”

    Profile photo of tash1330435tash1330435
    Member
    @tash1330435
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 1

    Hi all,

    I am in the same position as jcarlos. My partner and I are in the process of getting our finances sorted so we can start investing and we are confused and undecided on whether we should be setting up a trust or not.

    Neither of us work in a ‘risky’ profession at present, so were advised not to bother about setting up a trust for asset protection as it was an expense that is not necessary for our situation.

    Then we have also been told that setting up a trust is the only way to go.

    We are wanting to only invest in positve cashflow properties and are concerned that the extra costs of setting up and maintaining a trust would eat up a lot of this cashflow.

    Can anyone offer advice??

    Thanks,

    natasha

    Profile photo of Shirley_2Shirley_2
    Member
    @shirley_2
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 87

    We’ve purchased our investment properties in joint names – should have known about trusts earlier. Noel Whittaker had an interesting point on trusts in his recent newsletter:

    “Over the last three days I’ve been making speeches at the Brisbane Money Expo and then talking to people afterwards. Every time I attend one of these functions, I’m amazed by the lack of thought that people put into their investment strategies. As I’ve said repeatedly, the first question should not be “what shall I invest in”, but “in whose name shall I invest”.

    One couple told me that they’d formed a family trust and then bought an investment property in the trust’s name. They have now sold the property and are facing big capital gains tax bill. When I asked them why they’d used a trust, they were unsure but said they felt it would enable them to distribute the proceeds to their adult children who were on low incomes and receiving a wide range of Government benefits.

    They had not taken into account the fact that a distribution by the family trust could wipe out the benefits the children were receiving and also trigger the repayment of a HECS liability if the children had one. It would have been much simpler and cheaper to have bought the property in their own names.”

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