All Topics / Opinionated! / Rich is evil, poor is virtuous.

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  • Profile photo of 1Winner1Winner
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    I read with amusement the thread about the report on “Today Tonight”. Since I am new in this BB, I did not know about that MAP program and so had to guess a bit among the flaying tomatoes and other more subtle criticism.

    Some rabid criticism I had a chance to glance at before they went the way of the dodo, and some acrid responses, made me think that perhaps I should write once more about my favourite subject.

    I discovered 2 years ago that all I do and all the decision I take are based on information stored in my subconscious mind. Such information I learned, is the result of a life long of subconscious programming by all the people I take notice, and all the people that are more or less close to me, even the one that drop a sentence in my ear and disappear never to return.

    Such values are unfortunately more times than not, a handicap to my progress. Someone convinced me that I cannot fly, I believed him. Later they told me I am not good at walking either, so I was using my wings as crutches, hopping and limping true life around imaginary obstacles.

    This handicapping thoughts, Catherine Ponda calls “Limiting beliefs”, come in all shapes and forms but the one that has become my pet hate since then, because I not only discovered in myself but in about 95% of the population, is the universal concept of “Rich is evil yet poor is virtuous.”[8]

    This boldface lie is preached in different variations from TV, radios, newspapers and pulpits all around the globe, and its nefast influence makes and keeps more people in poverty than third world country bank loans, Ayatollahs and equatorial heat put together.

    It would seem to the untrained eye that on a BB like this, such concept should be already eradicated and that you should be all well versed in subconscious programming, and eliminating your limiting beliefs.

    Well, the thread in question and others I have seen reading here and there, make me think that perhaps my words will not be wasted, and so I want to remind whoever wants to read this far, that in order to prosper, we must first become prosperous in our own mind.

    Now perhaps you want to first define prosperity
    What is prosperity for you?
    That is personal of course but just a reminder, prosperity is money . . . . Yes! Shock horror! It IS money! And, … yes, also a lot of other things, I leave to you to share your own definition of prosperity if you want.

    How can we prosper? Steve has written a fantastic book on one practical way to became wealthy with Real Estate.

    Is that how we become prosperous?

    No, that is not how we do that.

    You can buy 100 properties, you can purchase 1000 properties yet, if you are not prosperous in your own mind, you will be as poor as when you first began with 0 properties. In fact you will find a way to sabotage your plans, to take the wrong turn, make the wrong decision that will turn you as poor as your thoughts are on the subjects. IF YOU ARE CONVINCED THAT RICH PEOPLE ARE CROOKS, EVILDOERS, SINNERS, MERCILESS EXPLOITERS OF THE MASSESS, your “conscience” the one that dictates your life from the safety of your own subconscious mind WILL NEVER ALLOW YOU TO PROSPER BEYOND THE LEVEL YOU THINK IT IS OK.

    Do you think it is wrong to charge rent? To increase it? To possess houses when others don’t have one? Do you think it is wrong to drive a new Mercedes? What about a Rolls Royce? You think it is immoral to have a 80 footer and a Jet Ranger helicopter on the back deck to go shopping. What about getting a bunch of Tulips flown in from Holland for your wife? Take an international flight to have dinner in an exotic location and return the next day?

    Well I say this to get you thinking that perhaps your belief system is not serving your purposes, and that perhaps you don’t know it but you also gloat over Renee Rivking’s incarceration and have a secret satisfaction when so called high flyers, “hit the dust”

    I say that if you are one of those who are happy over other people’s misfortune (if those people have more money than you), well then perhaps rather than trying to find a way to purchase that elusive +cash flow property you should use your time in making your belief system positive and working for you.

    Our prosperity starts in our mind, and then becomes reality in the material world. Unless we eliminate all the bias and resentment we have against other people’s success, unless we become able to celebrate such success in others, and believe that we deserve to succeed and that there is nothing wrong with wealth, we are wasting our time here. Start a Trust, buy properties but hate success and you will fail, that is mathematical.

    I am Christian, as fundamentalist as they come, but I also say that the Bible is a very prosperous book.

    The bible has been used and misinterpreted for centuries by many factions for political purposes. God does not want you poor; there is nothing virtuous in poverty, just like there is no inherent evil in prosperity.

    God want you prosperous, a winner in all sense, spiritually as well as materially using the God given talents to the fullest. Read the parable of the talents, it is a revelation.

    Love success, love it in others, celebrate others achievements and believe you deserve such wealth as well, see the other side of the coin, eliminate the satisfaction from others misfortune, and you will start prospering. The good RE deals will fall in you lap and you will not even know why or how.

    May God bless you
    and prosper you.
    Marc

    Profile photo of AdministratorAdministrator
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    Now all that makes a lot of sense.

    Pisces

    Profile photo of MCGJMCGJ
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    Profile photo of markpatricmarkpatric
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    Good post, but it is a blanket statement which is neither right or wrong, in all respects.
    I will leave you with this, it`s not what you do or say but your motivation for doing it.[;)]
    Rich or poor has no relevance imo.

    Profile photo of westanwestan
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    Yes

    and Marc, i think you’ll find Jesus spend more time talking about what we can do for others rather than do for ourselves. I also think we need to be careful not to see God as a Santa Claus character. we know that bad things happen to Good people. Thinking the right things never gaurantees anything. If you are fortunate to have money, the emphasis is what you do with it. Money is only a tool.
    One final word Jesus said to be concerned for the things of God not the riches of this world (my translation).
    regards westan

    I find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]

    Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
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    Well, Í´m an atheist, so Christian arguments are irreleveant to me. But don´t forget, we atheists also have a sense of what some people call ´morality´which i call living by certain ´principles´. I am more interested in the practices people use to make money- not in how much money they make. Onserving the practices of others helps me to develop my own sense of right and wrong, but I don´t have a belief system behind it- just a belief in myself.

    kay henry

    Profile photo of westanwestan
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    hi kay welcome back

    i used to be was an atheist too.[:D]

    regards westan

    I find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]

    Profile photo of AdministratorAdministrator
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    For those who want to take things a a bit further, Catherine Ponder’s books are remarkeably and most helpful books to bring about a change for the better in one’s thinking.

    By the way, her name is Catherine Ponder. Ponder, not Ponda !!

    Pisces

    Profile photo of elveselves
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    sayings

    well, my penn’f worth, a clash of doctrines is not a disaster- it is an opportunity (unknown)

    anyone who lives within his means suffers from a lack of imagination

    a person who acquires knowledge without using it is like a farmer who sows but fails to reap.

    ask and it shall be given you
    seek and ye shall find
    knock and it shall be opened unto you
    for everyone that asketh, receiveth,
    and to him that knocketh it shall be opened m7;7,8 (bible)

    The person who is afraid of taking risks joins of his own accord the society of failures

    Sorry but I dont know the original sources, but they aren’t mine. (unless stated) more if you want em!

    Elves

    Profile photo of 1Winner1Winner
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    Thank you for your answers.
    The only reason I included some Christian considerations is, because I noticed that some of the criticism levelled at Steve add some misdirected Christian ethos in the mix.
    Such is not uncommon and when a Christian prospers, he is usually attacked by people who are offended by other peoples wealth, by the use of some aleatory biblical passages or mismatched concept from some obscure Christian connection, put together in a rush by someone who would not open a bible in a fit on a 29 of February in Sydney whilst snowing.

    When I would gladly use this opportunity to discuss wealth and prosperity from a biblical point of view, I don’t think it would be appropriate to say more than I already have, and any more would be construed as evangelism by elevation. Nothing is further from my mind. Furthermore, the principles of Prosperity are universal and not dependent on one particular credo, even when in my view the origin of prosperity is God himself.

    T. Harv Eker likes to say:
    Rich people make their own life.
    Poor people say that life happens to them.

    Rich people play de money game to win.
    Poor people play the money game not to lose.

    Rich is in business to create wealth
    Poor is in the business to pay bills

    The goal of the rich is to be rich
    The goal of the poor is to get comfortable

    Rich acts in spite of fear, does not let fear stop him.
    Poor stops and wait for fear to go away, fear stops him.
    I also like this one:
    Have you noticed that…
    there is no such thing as a rich victim?

    Catherine Ponder yes sorry for the misspelling
    Here is a link http://www.prosperitynetwork.com/Ponder.htm

    May God bless you
    and prosper you.
    Marc

    Profile photo of jassepjassep
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    “Have you noticed that…
    there is no such thing as a rich victim?”

    *Except, perhaps for Rene Rivkin and Martha Stewart! [;)]

    Profile photo of AdministratorAdministrator
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    Marc, all well and good but unfortunately these kind of things are wasted on people with a closed mind.

    Anyone who hasn’t quite achieved what they want AND has an open mind could do a lot worse than getting hold of one of Catherine Ponder’s books.

    Even more important than reading a real estate book.[:D]

    Pisces

    Profile photo of pelicanpelican
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    I think we find society brainwashes us to :

    1) get good grades in School
    2) get a good job and work hard
    3) retire…..

    Thanks but NO THANKS…. I hope most people at PI forums realise this, and is why we are all here sharing our ideas etc…..

    The Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive in well in most countries…. but, as I once heard in a seminar…. If you are not well off and are bitter, you should be asking yourself, what am I going to DO about it…. .sadly most still sit and complain……

    the rest of us…. are on our way…..

    Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
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    I think a decent person, whether Christian or not, would care for all people, and not have to put down poor people.

    kay henry

    Profile photo of markpatricmarkpatric
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    OK guys lets not get too carried away.
    Marc1, basicly your attempt at providing some wisdom came from the right place I would say but for a start who is “misdirected”?[?].
    Secondly I am far from poor, I`m semi retired, the reason I never mention it because it makes NO difference to me regarding arguments of this type, you seem to be using riches as a measuring stick, and in life you must pass judgement in order to make decisions, there are a lot of things in life we all agree and disagree with.
    If a person has a negative or seen to be jealous comment it does not make thier whole life clouded by negative judgements, it is called free will.
    You didn`t even read the whole discussion before bestowing your wisdom, I make an observation on fact and what happens?.
    I would not even be here if I did not believe you could make money in R/E, I have CF+ properties, I have made more money than I could ever save in the last 18 months due to capitol gain.
    On a side note I painted a coffee shop for a christian who had the exact same view of his incredible good fortune…..great bloke and very interesting, but do you go out and read a bible and become a christian to get rich? and happy, of course not.
    I greatly admire people who aspire to truly helping others to success in all things, but to my mind your head appears to be well and truly in the sand at this point.
    As far as Pisces email, and the neverending jibes, I did apologise for my early error…get over it, it was an innocent mistake, subject closed.

    I don`t know enough about the Rene Rivkin situation to comment.[;)]
    Lastly, you should take a good look at Kayes reply, sums it up really.

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I haven’t read all this post, but would like to say Chritians do not have a monopoly on morality.

    Being wealthy is not a bad thing. It depends on what you do with the wealth.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of HousesOnlyHousesOnly
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    Great post Marc.

    I feel that poor people often are programmed into not performing, whether it be by their parents lack of ambition or their friends or other environmental factors. Most of them are capable of achieving so much more than they settle for.

    Profile photo of aussierogueaussierogue
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    isnt ambition one of the 7 deadly sins

    ps – shld this be in another section of the forum??

    Profile photo of CastleDreamerCastleDreamer
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    Greedy is evil – rich isn’t

    Castle Dreamer

    (You’ll never go wrong if you never go anywhere – have a go!”

    Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
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    I also seem to recall that Jesus was not a rich guz, but that he loved all people- remember Zacheus, the tax collector? Well, Jesus loved him too, plus mary magdalene etc. Jesus was a humble guy- of humble beginnings- Joseph a carpenter and Mary, Jesus´mother, was a housewife. I do not see the bible as a get-rich quick book, and Jesus didn´t charge for his proselytising- he just spoke to people because he loved them.

    Now, the above might sound unusual for an atheist to write, but please don´t assume that because someone doesn´t believe in God, that they don´t know the topic. Mzself and pretty much everyone I know was raised a Christian, has a deep memorz of the Bible, but chose not to be Christians for all our different reasons. And you can´t just conjure up a God- you either believe or you don´t, and I don´t.

    To say God wants us rich is similar to saying Marx wants us rich. And we can all quote selectively… how about ít is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the gates of heaven`?

    If you have made wealth through property, be happy. But I don´t know why people have to say poor people are not living out God´s will because they are poor´I think that is verý mean-spirited.

    I am much poorer than many of you- so what? I think the Bible is a manifesto of equality and communal living than it is of climbing over one another for elusive wealth. But go figure, each of us will read a book and receive a totally different meaning from it than another person.

    Oh, and folks, if you think that people who have less than you are merely ´jealous´well, that is not the case – perhaps for some it is, but for others, like myself, I don´t want your money- i want to learn how to live life well. So please don´t discount comments which differ to your own as ´jealousy´. It might simply be independent thinking. Money isn´t everything.
    kay henry

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