thewebchildMember@thewebchildJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 3
i am just getting started but amongst all the research i have been doing n.z. seems to be popping up. i would certainly be interested in hearing more details…!
love ya’ work.
cheers, clay. [^]MarkyMarkMember@markymarkJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 132
Thanks for the comments Mini,
I’m interested. You mentioned that you are already doing this. Do you have a good number of deals coming in on a regular basis? What sort of time frame are we talking about? Anyway put me on your list. Of course there’s also the question of, How much?
MarkyMarkandrew30Participant@andrew30Join Date: 2003Post Count: 6
Email me – I am interested.
AndrewMiniMogulParticipant@minimogulJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 1,414
this is brilliant, this is market research right at the coal-face.
> 1) Forum members appear to Fear being screwed by an unscrupulous Bird Dogger,
yup. I was trying to figure out how a bird-dogger could be unscrupulous. If you could lie about the rent or something to make the numbers look better and then they’re bull. well, we won’t be doing that because we don’t have to,
> by buying into an area that may experience -ve growth,
yeah, like sydney? Only 20 percent of properties are clearing by auction in sydney at the moment. there’s a movement back to ‘putting your house on the market’ in the traditional way, a sure sign of slumpy times ahead, so they tell me. Nah, we’re not going to be offering sydney properties for the time being!!
>or by buying into a
> property that may (after one has done their due diligence prove not to be
> worth the bother.)
That is a risk that everyone has. That I have when I make offers. I always try to get the info from the agent – tell me the truth now because I’m going to get a BR anyway so you may as well not waste my time and tell me what I’m
going to find. That’s been working and the BR has been as expected. When the agent swore black and blue there was absolutely nothing to do and it would rent absolutely as is, she was right. When the agent said ‘it’s reasonably tidy, but the bathroom probably needs attention,’ he was right.
Basically I’m a ‘good communicator’ and that’s a great skill to have. Talk, talk, get them talking, and keep them talking. 1/2 an hour on the phone with a vendor talking about the town, the house, the area, is priceless. So I really try to find out lots of stuff.
I’m surprised at how many people don’t get a builder’s report but i always always do and i always always will. whether or not I inspect in person.
Often the vendors have no clue about ‘did this XYZ (garage, or whatever) have a building permit?’ if they bought without a builder’s report or council report. Not everyone is as thorough as I am. If finding deals for others it makes me want to be even more thorough for them than I am for myself, if that makes sense.!
>Of course rural localities in NZ may experience declining
> populations in the future,
some of the declining towns are only 60k away in one direction and 90k in another from booming expanding towns, and you can see by the statistics that the decline is slowing every year. the nearby boom eventually feeds and trickles to the neighbouring towns. Some of the places that are CF+ve today will not be in the future. Not meaning that something you buy now won’t remain CF+ve (it should get even more so-) but meaning that prices will rise in these undevalued places near booming places, and in 5 years they’ll cost more, think Ballarat, think Oamaru. i.e. Oamaru was CF+ve a year ago but now is maybe borderline because prices have risen so much.)
Global population is set to increase, and keep on increasing. To me it’s a no brainer that every place in the whole world will have some kind of growth over the next 10 years unless there’s a chemical spill or something that reverses it.
Some of the NZ towns are a few years after an event that cause the initial decline, devaluing the houses – let’s say a major employer leaves – but have stabilised now. Maybe a little like ipswich.
> We need to question our assumptions about what exactly the Bird Dogger offers.
> Differing assumptions result in differing expectations.
> As a potential consumer, we should write a list:
> “What do I expect from the Bird Dogger”
> “Where does their responsiblity end?”
> “What would I want in a property analysis?”
fantastic question and I love how we can actually take these thoughts and then tailor what we do for what people want. how perfect is that.
Hi again marky mark,
>You mentioned that you are already doing this.
>Do you have a
> good number of deals coming in on a regular basis?
haha, i wish it was just that automatic. Basically I go find them after figuring out what the client wants. but they’ve all wanted the same thing, which is high yields!
>What sort of time frame are
> we talking about?
In november I had three people who were not tyre kickers asking me to find them deals. I said yes to the first guy and meanwhile told the other two i couldn’t quite cope with the idea of finding deals for three people at the same time and wanted to get the first one sorted and then do the second one.
but i would let them know when i had time and if they still wanted me to i would then find them some.
So the first client i think i took about 2 weeks to find three deals of which i thought they’d pick one. Client took all three. then I went on holiday for a month in NZ, and while there found my parents a deal. yay.
Then when i got back, the the second client became my priority. So I found four more deals in two different towns. I just found out tonight they have all been accepted, between two clients. So tomorrow I will find out if they are still available* and tie them up. (*can you see a fatal flaw here? I can, which is why I’m going to change my system!)
I wasn’t putting any contract on the properties until the clients said ‘go’ and then putting them in their name (i.e. not flipping.)
This is the part I will change, so that I don’t miss out. There were a couple of deals that had gone, by the time the clients got back and said ‘yes I want to put a contract on that one’. And for me that was research and work and calculations and phonecalls and pdf’s and emails and time wasted.
>Anyway put me on your list. Of course there’s also the
> question of, How much?
$1000 bucks, but here’s the trick: thought of it myself, and it’s doable –
I’m aiming high – the deals we are aiming to find will have 15 percent returns calculated on the purchase price *including* the bird-dog fee.
I .e. the property is actually 1K cheaper than quoted.
of course if other deals come up, such as ‘this one is only 12 percent yield, but it’s right next door to the site where they’re building a new supermarket’ kinda thing, they will be included too. We’d be silly to have blinkers on for other kinds of deals.
In the meantime it’s great to keep workshopping this idea a bit and having a bit of a RE discussion at the same time, but I’ll let everyone who’s PM’ed me or messaged me know what’s happening, once something is!
miniSadieMember@sadieJoin Date: 2004Post Count: 1
I am also interested.
Please add me to the list also
Mini, I take your points above re refinancing locally in NZ.
Another issue I think you need to provide reassurance on is tenancies. We all know marketeers promise 18 months or whatever of guaranteed returns, only because they do dirty deals with tenants. When that period is up, the owner soon finds out what real tenant demand is like. If you weren’t inclined to do this, then certainly a dodgey NZ REA could get away with it.
Mini, I see faults in your argument, but I could argue all day, just think about the general concept that if you had a property and the value went up 100%, IF IT WENT UP AT ALL, then dropped by 50% you would be broke!.
All your opinions seem to cling to optimum market conditions, this can apply to rents, population whatever, the more houses you have the more you can make… sure, but also you are more and more vulnerable imo, especially in the current market.
We are now nearing a point in the market where this kind of calculation will start to boggle more than a few minds as they veiw thier empty pockets.
Even Dolf Deroos who is probably the most well known guru to expound the thoeries of investing overseas warns against doing it till your experienced and have a significant equity close to home!.
You also tell people they can get an Aussie loan and switch it over later?…..more costs, not a good habit to get into.
From what I see here, Mini is advertising for around 30K properties. These aren’t 200K properties, folks. She’s also put lots of info on here about what she’s doing and what she believes in, which is more than the mysterious DD did, when they were advertising for bird-dogging. And noone said boo to them- perhaps because they were from the MAP program? Except when things went bad, and then they barely responded anyway.
I see that what many people onhere are doing is “due diligence” in finding out the mechanics of how Mini is operating- and that’s healthy, but these are cheap properties she’s discussing- much cheaper than many of us can find, and she seems to know the market pretty well- in fact, it’s the market that has made her successful herself. Isn’t that one of the rules of investing? To work with those who have been successful in a niche area? If Mini was advertising emu farms or organic fruit, then one could be more suspicious.
Mini- good on you for being so open and such a communicator- but also for standing your ground. Doesn’t seem to me like you’re being dodgy- and my bullshite-ometer works pretty well. I guess basically, people arw a bit scared of handing over any amount of money- $1000 can be a lot. But at the end of this $1000, you can have an income generating property- paid off some by tenants and some by yourself. You get bricks and mortar, which is more than you get if you pay $1000 to a seminar provider.
My only hesitation would be how the properties are so cheap. Many would know I have an issue with undervalued properties- hard bargaining with vulnerable people etc.
But I don’t think Mini is trying to rip forum people off, for what it’s worth.
Kay it may be they are selling due to they are getting good money right now!.
I never said Minimogul was a Minimongrul, just that the idea that you could lose out is being completely disregarded, if someone was prepared to hold these properties long term with no +CG if it came to it, I`d say it would be worth considering.
Hi everyone 
It’s time to come out of the closet! My name’s Leigh Storr and I’m the guy working on the ground with Mini. As of tomorrow I will have a return airfare for 12 days to New Zealand, departing on Sunday 15th of Feb. Whilst over there I’m going to be doing a lot of travelling, speaking to a lot of real estate agents, putting in a lot of offers to purchase cashflow positive properties, and following up with plenty of negotiations and property inspections.
Initially (for this first trip anyway) what we’re looking for is about a dozen serious investors who are ready to play ball, and in a position to purchase properties in NZ within the next couple of months.
Sorry if this sounds rude, but I must emphasise that we are only prepared to deal with serious, committed investors at the moment. The service we are offering is a property finders service (bird-dogging), and as such we will be putting 100% of our efforts into finding the best properties, and negotiating the best deals for our clients. Therefore, at the moment we would prefer not to be spending a lot of our time bringing clients upto speed on the benefits of investing in real estate, debating positive cashflow or investing in NZ. Although we will assist with our best efforts, services such as obtaining finance, managing the property and predicting the direction of the market we are going to leave to the respective professionals at the moment [:o)]
Thanks to everyone that has PM’d or emailed Mini, we will be getting back to you all within the next 48 hours with the full details of the trip and service we are offering. Anyone else that feels they may be interested in purchasing positive cashflow properties in NZ, or if you have any questions, please feel free to PM either myself or Mini rather than continuing this thread (I think it may have entered into the grey area of the forum rules).
I look forward to working with many of you.
Cheers, Leigh 
Give a man to fish & you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish & you feed him for a lifetime, give an entrepreneur a fish though & he wont be happy until he has a majority share of the entire fishing industry!
In my own naive way, this is how I look at it. You buy a 30-40K property… and if you have stable tenancy for most of the year, they pretty much pay off the entire house for you over time- so it’s a free property! If you don;t have permanent tenancy, perhaps a quick reno- such as Mini has done and sent me photos- is in order. Her reno’s cost her around 10k and made the houses look lovely. So maybe after the reno, the house isn’t free anymore, but i always think of an investment as an *investment*- as in, I have no problem paying money to get back money. So maybe now I have to pay an extra $5 a week to own my own house! That might include Landlord Protection insurance, some maintenance, etc.
But you might decide to pay the place off quickly. So in 1-2 years, you basically have your own property, which is income-generating, may not produce much CG, but you’ll probably have income from it the rest of your life. Even if you don’t have tenants every day for the life of the property, basically, the tenants will have paid it off for you, and you have a passive income.
I approach property fairly simplistically- even ny first prop was pretty much paid off by tenants- even though it was neg geared. These ones Mini is talking about are cheap, pozz geared, and might not cost you nix. And you may have a lifetime of income- if you look after the property.
Nice try in closing down this thread  but it’s a forum, and people can debate until the cows come home, or until a moderator closes it :o) I learn so much from these threads- I find them really valuable. As I have from this one. If one begins a topic, it usually continues until people lose interest in it. That might happen right now! But it might not, so you are just gonna have to be patient
Hi Kay Henry,
It’s not that I want to close the thread, why would I do that! I just don’t want to be on the wrong side of the moderators . It’s like stealing until you get caught!
You’ve said it very well! I’ve known Mini for 12 months now and everytime I speak to her it’s reaffirmed that no one I’ve ever met has a higher level of integrity.
We can assure everyone reading this thread that we have best intentions, the highest level of integrity and an attention to detail. Every property sourced will have to first meet our personal standards and investing criteria to be considered. If we had the means, and it fitted with our objectives we would purchase every one of them ourselves! As Mini has said though, she’s finding more properties than she can poke a stick at at the moment, and my personal interests/current objective is to raise seed capital for a start-up business I’m working on at present.
Leigh and Mini (who I thought was a guy), not trying to be a wet blanket, but have you considered getting some local knowledge on board?
I’d certainly feel more comfortable with a sheep loving local digging up the due diligence then Leigh, who is going to have serious time constraints and apparently has no long term local connections???
There must be a zillion fisch and chup shop owners who’d love to make a few bucks on the side filling out templates and going for weekend drives with digital camera in hand.
They’d also have an advantage in sourcing NZ reno brothers for those inevitable moments.
Anyway, once again, I am not trying to sink your idea. If you are providing quality info and investments, then I am supportive of the concept.
However, if I do my own due diligence and find out differently, I’ll bite hard.
“However, if I do my own due diligence and find out differently, I’ll bite hard.”
Bruce honey… if you prefer to do your own researching, then do it. But don’t decide that you’ll either pay $1000 asnd if it works out for you, you’ll be silent, but if it doesn’t, you’ll “bite hard”. $1000 isn’t worth getting abused by anyone.
I think Mini and Leigh might choose to work with people who aren’t going to abuse them. I hope they choose carefully. Trust works both ways. They are being fairly transparent in what they’re doing here. God- what do you expect from life??
Kay this is the thing, rental properties can quickly consume a lot of time, thought and effort and become a full time job, and we are now scraping the bottom of the barrel with regard to CF+ properties.
I`m not saying it can`t work right now, but I certainly ain`t going out buying ten properties right now…..ignorant?, dumb maybe we`ll see but I`d prefer to have no more than 2 CF+ houses in Aussie right now and certainly wouldn`t buy overseas, let alone sight unseen.
The earlier you get in the better, the more equity you have the better, but we are fast approaching the point sooner or later investors will be buying CF+ houses in risky areas and exposing themselves to risks which they may not clearly consider.
>Leigh and Mini (who I thought was a guy), not trying >to be a wet blanket, but have you considered getting >some local knowledge on board?
Absolutely. The success of our system will come from not trying to do everything ourselves. The very first thing I’ll be looking for in each area is a team of professionals i.e. real estate agents, building & pest inspectors, valuers…
>I’d certainly feel more comfortable with a sheep >loving local digging up the due diligence then Leigh, >who is going to have serious time constraints
I actually disagree on this one. One idea we had was to run everything from here in Aust using the net and telephone to dig out all the deals and handball the rest to locals. However, look from another angle (the angle of one of our clients) and ask how confident you would be on a deal that even the bird-dog hasn’t seen!!
One of my favourite quotes is ‘Know what you know and what you don’t know’. I acknowledge that I don’t have the local knowledge, but by surrounding myself with people that do (i.e Mini for a start, the NZ estate agents, plus the many ‘sheep loving locals’ I’ll meet over there) it doesn’t become much of an issue. Due diligence isn’t rocket science, neither’s property investing for that matter!
>apparently has no long term local connections???
Mini’s a kiwi  She has pretty good knowledge of the areas we’ll be looking at, and also has a range of contacts in place over there already.
>There must be a zillion fisch and chup shop owners >who’d love to make a few bucks on the side filling >out templates and going for weekend drives with >digital camera in hand.
I’m glad we’re on the same wave length here! The power of a network together with a strong system is something which can be hugely leveraged to benefit everyone. We have considered, once putting the system in place, delegating some of the basic ‘time consuming’ tasks to some local fisch & chupies! The ‘templates’ have to be made first though .
Cheers, LeighkimmyMember@kimmyJoin Date: 2003Post Count: 8
Yes, I am IN too. Am from NZ, but have lived in Aust for so long now (in Broome). Have contacted Westan about same sort of thing? Is he the other person by any chance – hope so, because I think you guys would make a great team and I’d feel very confident to have your advice and help in investing.
“if you prefer to do your own researching, then do it.”
there’s one little fascist dictate….
I suppose you don’t have the subtlety of intelligence to understand that two sources doing it has a cumulative effect.
“But don’t decide that…..”
and there’s another.
Can’t help yourself huh Kay? I’ll decide what value to put on a $1000 thanks Kay, without any advice from you in your Gestapo boots and “$1000 isn’t a lot of money insolence”.
You funny guy Bruce :o) You didn’t hand over the $1000 to me and so I don’t give you permission to bite hard, thanks. There’s another little fascist dictate for ya, Bruce The anger on here just pours from some people- i have no idea why!
But the good thing about it is, people show it so easily that it gives a really good indication of what kind of person you’re doing business with.
As always… Caveat emptor…