Well my first question is why did this person ‘get nothing’? There was lots there to ‘get’, but again it’s the individuals who make the decision to implement or not. I think they say it’s something like 5-10% who will implement, the rest will come up with reasons why they didn’t.
Here are some articles regarding the decision by creditors to liquidate NII. Not real smart IMO because now they will probably get 0c in the $ of what they are owed. As for ‘teaching Henry a lesson’ – I doubt that it will do much damage to his personal wealth anyways.
http://finance.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8727414%255E462,00.html
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/18/1077072711765.html
I think it pays not to fall out with your siblings when big money is at stake!!
Cheers
MelMelbear I love this line of thinking that “if you don`t succeed you didn`t follow the guidelines correctly or you are useless or you just don`t get it….lol[
][]
Success comes to people at different points in thier life and in different ways, this poor immigrant may now go out and make a million but spending big dollars on kits is rarely going to help him, and expecting to make it with little or no hard work is a myth, you read it right…a myth, unless you come from a family with money or were helped out in some way early, if you want to make it in this world you better be prepared to work, not buy a R/E kit and live financially free froever.
Very few in this world can live life like one big holiday, I`m guessing HK is one of them.[]Have been looking forward to reading and trying to understand everyones POV regarding our beloved HK. Its a bit like all of our opinions -RE, wrapping, politics, sex’n’religion. We all have our viewpoints and fail to understand that others have diametrically opposing viewpoints held as strongly as our own.
So, until I unilaterally become the official dictator of the republic of Australia, please feel free to understand that the following comments may be viewed only as my opionion, as opposed to “the one and only way that you are allowed to feel about the situation”[
]The first sentence of the first lecture of the first ASX course that I attended started something like this “Fear and greed, greed and fear, these are the problems and opportunities within any market”.
If anyone has ever written a book, and then does a seminar, (unless the book was a loss leader for the hard sell seminar), then I have always found the book to be highly informative, more thorough and more densely packed with information than the lecture. As the economists would say, the cost/benefit ratio of the book is much lower, IMHO usually by a factor of 100 or so. Significantly much more information at 1-10% of the price.
Think about it this way. Get your favourite book, and read a page. Took about a minute, didnt it? So, if a lecture lasted about one hour, the lecturer could read only 60 pages. In a three hour lecture (if you could remember half of it), 180 pages. How many pages were in the book?
Also, there is always some dopey moron who asks dead easy stupid questions to the detriment of others. These people annoy me more than people who talk during movies while throwing their popcorn. Perhaps there are only a few of these people, whom regularly rotate all of the courses on offer around australia, just to make the rest of us feel annoyed[
] Intelligent questions are fine, but they are usually preceded idiots repeatedly requesting basic stuff already covered in the talk. Or, even worse, thinking that the lecture is actually a dialogue between the lecturer and themself.We all learn differently, some better through books (which we can highlight, read, underline, reread etc), while others learn auditarily, visually, or through social contact. I believe that most lectures that are sold, are sold to people whom learn via social interaction rather than via the printed word, and I have nothing against that. The problem can become when you advisor is also on the payroll through your backpocket. I believe that many people in the real estate game make the dodgiest used car salesman look like shining ethical beacons from heaven.
A colleague of mine (who I had a lecture or three off) at university got stung by a huge scam to the tune of 300 grand. It was a grape investment, with management fees of up to eighty percent!. His accountant was wildly enthused, and was supposed to be investing, but didnt! It will be interesting to see if he was on the kickback payroll!
Was it fear (of missing out on a great return, of retiring poor) or greed (this cant lose), or naiivity (not likely-he was highly educated, and the person I would view as least likely to get screwed by this sort of scam). Well, he cant claim naivity, as even in our proffessional magazine, almost every tax year, the accountant warns us all to avoid the agricultural scams, and to focus on the INVESTMENT itself, rather than the TAX ‘ADVANTAGES’.
Heres a way in which I will guarrantee all you high income earners (>100k) to legally pay 10K tax per year.- take fridays off!, or lose 20k in a business!. Saving tax means losing money, but the ‘average dickhead in the street’ (my favourite coined saying of all time) thinks this is wonderful- I can pay less tax. They go to the adviser, who asks the (rhetorical) question- do you think you are paying too much tax?, followed by the uppercut of would you like me to show you how to pay less tax?
All the eggs in the one basket. Lets face it, all of us could probably lose 10 grand in bad mistakes, and live through it. I have done it before, and will probably do it again. But 300grand? on a scheme (or scam) like this? It is almost incomprehensible.
My old man (a chartered accountant) tends to ask three questions of me when I run something past him.
Firstly, what is your intention (and “making money” IS NEVER THE ANSWER!
Secondly, how did you meet them
Thirdly, how are you paying them. NOT If, but how. If you pay someone up front for their opinion, they will probably do your due diligence for you. If their opinion and information is “free” (as in a lunch), then they will be doing their due diligence ON you, and get paid via your back pocket commission.
And in any market society, we have not just the criminal element, but those that wish to line their pockets. I explained to my boss (on more than one occasion), that I would have a better chance of being jailed if I broke into his house a few times and stole a few grand worth, than if I stole a hundred grand off him white collar style. Witness Skase, he went in front of a judge, asked for his passport which he wasnt going to use. Judge gives him passport, he never uses his return ticket. HK may go this way, as I am sure that he is smart enough to get away with what he has done/ alleged to have done.
My view of HK is that he may (and I repeat, may ) be a cunning white collar criminal, or he may legitimise his activities as teaching. My proffessional courses start at about 350 dollars a day, upwards, and why not sell courses in RE? If people are making great money, they may attribute it to me (as opposed to the great bull market), and why cant I sell them my own investments and developments?
Perhaps he brought a two tiered scheme, with smaller margins and easier cash, but who really knows? (I dont think he would even honestly know the answer)
But I reckon that if someone had 30k to invest in RE, a proper accountant would suggest a few hundred dollars in books, a bit of shoe leather, a property investors club (non profit), solid financial advice, spend some time looking in the market to find a bargain, and still have about 29,654 dollars as a deposit. To spend large sums (prior to the first purchase) to me sounds like something I would personally never do, and find it hard to understand why anyone would feel the need to do this.
Thanks for that interesting reply.
I have been to an Henry Kaye seminar, and I found him to be incredibly believable. With a bit of insight, it is easy to see him as a top salesperson. However, that unfortunately wasn’t obvious to the people who bought from him. The stories you read in the press about the pain and loss suffered by so many people who had dealings with him is tragic and hard to take. Hard to accept that he can walk away from it.
CarLover.
Like my dad tells me, “If i had an idea which i can make quick millions, why the hell would i want to tell everyone else, even for a high price”
There is only a finite wealth pool in this world and if someone is making miilions fast, many is going to have to lose quick. So if this someone tells this “secret” to everyone else who tells it to more people, sudddenly there would be hundreds if not thousands of millionaires and the economical infrastructure would have to collapse at some point.
So there we go, fear and greed, basic human emotions, that allow time and again, us to put ourselves in a position of ruin; financially, emotionally, mentally and sometimes morally.
I try to tell myself everday that what I have may be not as much as some of you guys here( 3IPs in good burbs) but I have a sound job that makes a difference to people’s life, a supportive family and in a position of reasonable comfort if i contine in my path.
Those in similar position or not i think should think about all the good things in their lives and not worry about getting or missing out on the next superb IP deal.
However, i feel that sometimes this site can offer false hopes to those who are new or disiilusioned with life to find new ways to make a living and to emulate Steve and Dave; though most of us know the effort in 2004 is about 10X more than 1997.(I’m not saying this site is unscrupulous, its great and informative but one must understand before indulging into areas unknown)
Sorry about my ramblings but had to get this out
FJFICM
Melbear,
Really sorry to flog a dead horse topic here… but will you be able to get your money back- as in a refund- for the 55K you spent on the last course.. would be terrible to have to pay such a large amount back- that would destroy me financially. [8]
Sorry- on euro keyboard and cannot find question mark! [
]kay henry
Ah, Kay, ignore my welcome back on the other posts. I thought you were home, but obviously not.
Nope, I’m not going to get any of the $55K back. In fact, I still owe about $10K which they have STILL been taking from my credit card even though the company is dead. I’ve cancelled the card, and told them not to take any more money, but they didn’t listen, so I’ve disputed it with the Card company, and will not pay it.
As for the other, I get to pay $700 a month for the next 4 years to pay it off. That doesn’t worry me too much because I probably got most of the value out of the course that I expected – it’s just the company/trust setup that I was entitled to, deposit bond, accountant visit etc. that I can no longer get that I want to hold back the $10K for.
As I said in another post to Redwing, I have learnt how to find deals that will return in excess of 30% per annum, and the last deal that was offered to us (secured by land ownership) was an effective return of 70% over 18 months. So I only really need to a. find the $$ to invest in this, and b. use the returns to then pay the loan. I weighed up how much it would cost me when I enrolled, so nothing has really changed, except that we are no longer getting our 1/4ly meeting with Henry.
Hope you’re having a huge time in Austria. Say hi to Monika for us all!! [
]Cheers
MelOriginally posted by melbear:Markpatric, did you ever attend a Henry seminar? Is that why you are so bitter?
My wife attended the seminars. Before she did though, which was in April/May 2002, I actually contacted ASIC to check that NII was the real deal. I am a vary wary of ‘get-rich quick’ schemes & to be honest if it wasn’t for my wife ‘pestering’ me, I would not have agreed to the course. Also prior to signing up, I had a meeting with a consultant, who I literally grilled & I don’t think he liked it!!
The previous paragraph was to qualify the fact that I am not a gullible person & that did more ‘checks’ than most would.
As for the seminars, well yes there was alot to be gained. I will be using this information in future, as I am determined to make money out of property.
However, there were a couple of glaring lies, in my opinion. Henry kept pushing the fact that making money out of property is a ‘pushover’ or he at least IMPLIED this. Totally wrong; you need to be spend hours & hours of your own time & this is very difficult with a full-time job.
Secondly, it was never explained that the renovation of apartments/units & on-selling them at settlement, is one of the most complicated features of the course. This was even admitted to me later by one NII’s employees on the phone. I never found a builder willing to hold off paying his subbies during the 30 day settlement period, while a place was being renovated. Related to this, I felt that Richmond in Melbourne had the most potential for apartment renovation, as its property prices are on average significantly lower than other suburbs in the same vicinity to the CBD. Henry stated during the course that you should avoid buying at auction & wait a couple of months for when the vendor wants to sell at a reduced price. WELL WHAT’S THE POINT IF THE AUCTION CLEARANCE RATE IN RICHMOND IS OVER 95% (as of February/March last year)!!
This renovation ‘scheme’ would only work in a depressed market, not a bubbling market, in my opinion, as vendors & builders would take what they could get. THIS WAS NEVER STATED IN THE SEMINARS.On a separate note, I am just about to settle an apartment bought from PCG, where the valuation has come in 15% under the valuation provided by PCG at time of offer & 10% under their ‘discounted’ price (18 months ago). Makes you look at things totally differently doesn’t it!!!
Originally posted by Ozboy:
As for the seminars, well yes there was alot to be gained. I will be using this information in future, as I am determined to make money out of property.
However, there were a couple of glaring lies, in my opinion. Henry kept pushing the fact that making money out of property is a ‘pushover’ or he at least IMPLIED this. Totally wrong; you need to be spend hours & hours of your own time & this is very difficult with a full-time job.
Secondly, it was never explained that the renovation of apartments/units & on-selling them at settlement, is one of the most complicated features of the course. This was even admitted to me later by one NII’s employees on the phone. I never found a builder willing to hold off paying his subbies during the 30 day settlement period, while a place was being renovated. Related to this, I felt that Richmond in Melbourne had the most potential for apartment renovation, as its property prices are on average significantly lower than other suburbs in the same vicinity to the CBD. Henry stated during the course that you should avoid buying at auction & wait a couple of months for when the vendor wants to sell at a reduced price. WELL WHAT’S THE POINT IF THE AUCTION CLEARANCE RATE IN RICHMOND IS OVER 95% (as of February/March last year)!!
This renovation ‘scheme’ would only work in a depressed market, not a bubbling market, in my opinion, as vendors & builders would take what they could get. THIS WAS NEVER STATED IN THE SEMINARS.Ozboy, I’m gathering that you are bitter? Only by the fact that you quoted my earlier question?
I feel for you with your PCG purchase, and I wonder if they are still operating. I have not had a call from them for a month, and never bought anyway, so I wouldn’t know. I never actually believed that PCG could provide me with a better deal than I could find myself, and I didn’t like the way they presented.
I’m interested that you say there were lies though. Then you say that ‘it was implied’, and ‘this was never stated’ etc.
The main thing I got out of the particular ‘strategies’ that you mention is that it could be possible. I don’t think he ever said it was easy, but the way Henry presented, everything was a piece of cake. I think that’s what got so many people into trouble, cos it sounded easy!!
As for your point about auctions, some like them – Peter Spann for instance, and he can teach you his strategies which work quite often, but not always – and some don’t. I’m not a fan, but if I identify an area that I want to buy in, I would have to adapt to the way things are done. Henry didn’t say you had to buy in Richmond, that was your research, and so you have to adapt to the fact that it looks like auctions work down there.
Ozboy, I’m glad you did get some positives, and I hope things work out with your PCG property. I hope it wasn’t a $600-$700K property.
Cheers
MelWow Mel
You certainly know how to get the most out of every experience. Can you zap me some of your positivity? []Good onya [^]
Judi
Sorry the system just stuffed up my post & I’m not typing it again!!!!!
You can buy Henry’s course now on the internet for about $300.00 and in my opinion that is all people should be paying for stratagies and techniques, the coaching or personal mentoring is another cost and a seperate issue.
it is a shame that the human being believes that the more money you pay the better the information, BS, I got a lot of my information from an Italian greengrocer in Balmain who owns 73 properties in that Suburb alone and has some great fruit and veg as well.
Ozboy, you can edit your posts if you are logged in. You can edit or delete. It’s at the top right of your post.
Cheers
Mel
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