I am getting really sick of Neil Jenman.
He critise Henry Kaye and other real estate investment advocates every couple of days. To Jenman, every seminar presentors other than himself are liers, scams and promotes unethical ways of making money. The articles he writes are subjective personal attacks on people based on a few sad stories in the press with very little facts to support his arguement.
He always uses the word “ethics” as his defense but I find the articles he writes to defame other people based on minimal facts very irresponsible and unethical.
i think he is ok. imagine what the world would be like if we didnt have people who question the motives of other people / organisations etc
its very healthy – just like having an opposition in politics or a defence lawyer in the judicial system. their job is to criticise and keep people honest.
its a good system because most of the time the legitimate people will fight the critisisim and come through stronger on the other side.
the frauds will end up in trouble – like henry kaye….
dont assume that all the seminar people you hear and speak to are in it for the love……..
just to prove the point ansonlau, you are doing to jenman what jenman does to the others. being critical. thats ok as long as yr points have substance. we are all part of the system.
if you dont like him – turn the page
cheers
Well, after having experience with Jenman agents I wouldn’t use them again ever.
They inflate the price they will get for you and suck you in with their no sale no pay deal.
Then the house sits and sits, gets stale and in the end they give up on it.
My perception is that they seem to work on the principle that this is the way to gets lots of listings. Many will fall over but the ones that go through keep the agency going.
The whole thing sounds good in theory when you hear their spiel but in practice leaves a lot to be desired IMHO.
Give me one of the “crook” agents anyday. They are probably not much better but at least you know what you are dealing with!
pray advise “ansonlau” as a new contributor to this aguust forum whom do you represent?
Me thinks that you might have an agenda!
Pray correct me if I am incorrect?
i think he is ok. imagine what the world would be like if we didnt have people who question the motives of other people / organisations etc
I don’t have a problem with people not agreeing with each other. In fact I bought Jenman’s book “Real Estate Mistake” and thought some sections are useful even for a property investor.
just to prove the point ansonlau, you are doing to jenman what jenman does to the others. being critical. thats ok as long as yr points have substance. we are all part of the system.
Yes I am being critical of jenman but I am not doing what he’s doing which is defaming other people without much substance behind it. He has reported a few sad stories from other people, but if you read the articles he’s written (an I’ve read through many of them), they are simply personal attack on others, repeatedly calling others “crook”, “liar”, etc.He goes after Henry Kaye every week and yet I havn’t seen any true facts from him saying what exactly is wrong with Henry seminars. He criticise Steve McKnight’s “wrap” strategy and say it’s unethical, and when someone says to him you can structure wraps in ethical, win-win deal, his response is simply “you cannot make an unethical strategy ethical” (or something similar). No real facts to support it.
i agree, i lump jenman in the same boat as J t. reed or whatever his name is.
All the successful and respected ‘gurus’ (for want of a better word – sorry Steve – i can feel you cringing!!) – don’t get there by pulling others down. they get there on their own merits by offering information in a new light. I just don’t think it’s a good look by saying someone else is bad to make you look good. i don’t think it works the way they hope. it just makes them look bitter or something. and you are right, all of the ones that do that have their own agenda.
cheers-
MiniAnsonlau – methinks you should spend some time at the ASIC website regarding Henry Kaye. He has officially made ASIC’s sh#t list.
ansonlau and also mini
i dont think you would get anyone to argue that if there ever was an industry that needed tougher regulation whether it be formal or from consumer groups – its the realestate industry.
do you agree?? if the answer is yes than you need to give ‘critics’ some flexibility and movement in what they have to say. there are lots of shrewed characters and bar going to a court of law how does anyone ‘prove’ anything? they cant! hence the reason why this system works. if you dont like jenman then say so and the wheel keeps on turning.
i reckon we need this in our society (contrarian views)….and blve me he is tame…………
what do you think of http://www.crickey.com ???
or notgoodenough or plenty of othersthis doesnt mean that jenman agents wont try tricks to get yr biz. it would be foolish to think that evryone has altruistic motives just because they have a sticker on their window. buyer beware……
my 2 bits
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Ansonlau – methinks you should spend some time at the ASIC website regarding Henry Kaye. He has officially made ASIC’s sh#t list.
Yeah I read just about all the articles from ASIC about Kaye, all I can find is:1. He says he’s ASIC approved when there’s no such thing as ASIC approved.
2. He teaches Mezzanine finance which he’s not licensed to do.
Not quite as bad as what Jenman says he is?
Compare Steve’s site and Jenman’s site, you’ll see Jenman’s articles are strongly biased towards his own business, uses a lot of words which plays on people’s emotions, and aggressively puts down other people. Steve’s site contains straight info about his own strategie and business, and promotes open discussion.
aussierogue – contrary views and critics are fine, that’s what these discussion forums are for. I just think Jenman’s articles are heavy on stirring up the public’s emotions to his advantage and minimal on giving us facts, which critics should be doing.
Thanks guys for all the responses. I just felt like getting this off my chest.
ansonlau
point taken. but curious that you want facts.
would you say these gurus are high on facts or retoric???
one of the most common critisisms of some gurus and seminars is that they are low on facts. they stir up emotion, make you feel like you havent achieved anything and present figures that make them look good.
whats good for the goose……..
would you say these gurus are high on facts or retoric???I’ve listened to some seminars (live and recorded) and I actually believe a lot of these seminar people tell you their tried and used investment strategy. Problem is implementing most of these strategies takes a lot of time and for those who has a full time job, the don’t have the time and time flexibility to implement them.
Actually I want to know how people who has a full time job allocate time to do property. That’ll be a new topic.
i agree property investing takes time,
I have a full-time ‘life’ and it’s been quite a lot of work to buy three properties and renovate two since april. even though i only spent a total of four days at one of the properties and the rest was farmed out or done on the phone.
i would call it a ‘full time hobby’ – i.e. to the temporary exclusion of other hobbies, if you are trying to do it on the side to begin with.
cheers-
MiniI think Jenman has a positive role to play in the real estate game without taking everything he says. I dont agree with all that he says (eg I think there are both unethical and ethical wraps) but through looking for and throwing light on dodgy individuals and practices within the industry he may be able to force some change regarding these and if that happens I guess he has done his job. Maybe some people come under his wrath when the dont deserve it, I really dont know. But he can play a positive role even if that is the case. There are a few dodgy “gurus” going around during this boom, including the major development companies that have wealth creation seminars which are extremely self-promotional. They also use terms such as “wholesale prices” to get people in. I think there definitely needs to be more regulation in this area as average “investors” have proven in this boom that they will take what is fed to them at these seminars too much.
p.s My personal opinion after reading quite a bit about him is that Henry Kaye is really a crook. Sure maybe some people have made money through him but that is obvious. Any idiot could have made money in this boom. I just think you should never ever take investment advice from someone trying to sell you something.G’day….
I absolutely have no time for Real Estate Franhises/Systems. The buyer of the franchise seems to think they need their hand held and are gutless wonders. Jenman flogs off his “system” and takes a % of T/O from those that are too lacking in self confidense to go it alone. Imagine doing biz with an agent that is not confidident enough to fly his/her own flag.
However only 2% of the population trust R/E Agents
not because of dishonesty so much but sheer incompetance. It is far too easy to get a job in R/E and the sooner they get rid of the “part timers” the better.Of course there are dishonest agents, but they are a minority… the majority are unskilled and tell the Vendor what he wants to hear…then the rot sets in.
Neil Jenman…promotes Ethics and he is on the right track. His cause needs to be funded so many agencies subscribe to his “system” and pay for the privelege. He is resposible for their actions I agree… and Agency’s do get terminated. Bad luck if you got lumbered with an Agency that should never been in the system. So don’t knock a bloke for running his own race. It does “differentiate” his services and that is the key to a successful Business…. give him a go.
He has been on this “ethical Bandwagon” for 10 years…already he is in part responsible for legislation in the atrocious Auction System.Cheers
BillBill O’Mara
Real Estate,Mortgages,Share Market Strategies.
[email protected]How Little you know about Neil Jenman
Yes he promotes Ethics in Real estate however he also trains people to be proffessional real estate agents and he want the industry to be recognised as proffessionals is that a bad thing. He helps stuggling agents to be more profitable. Once and for all you are having a go at a person and a system that you no nothing about . He is not a franchise he charges a fee for membership. I am defending him because I was a part of his system and I follow it to the T and my income is $150 200k per year.Where and average agent would earn $35000 per year.before making an opinion go and visit his seminar.
Comparing Neil Jenman to Henry Kaye is like comparing Elliott Ness to Al Capone (that’s what I heard someone say, but I agree).
I don’t think Jenman is without faults (who is?!)but I’ve been watching him for a long time and I reckon he’s the real deal.
Thanks for the chance to say this.
Bec
To deep for me i will just stay in my little corner with my measly 3 Ips and use my time to become a property TYCOON.[
]I Agree wholeheartedly..
Jenman probally isn’t without his faults, who amongst us isn’t [}
]But if he can promote ethics and achieve results in an industry with 2% confidence vote from the public.. good on him. every now and again you need someone to shake things up!
my impresion is he at least promotes paying real estate agents a wage not to survive on sales/bread/water alone.. thats a recipe to push your own agenda isn’t it.. you gotta put bread on the table.
not an agent-just an observer[8D]
Redwing
“The man that thinks at 5o as he did when he was 20 has wasted 30 years of his life”
Yes he promotes Ethics in Real estate however he also trains people to be proffessional real estate agents and he want the industry to be recognised as proffessionals is that a bad thing.I would like to know specifically what is so very “Ethical” about Jenman’s system.
Jenman believes agents should be professional and get the best price they can for the vendor. Nothing wrong with that.
Real estate investment people teaches investors how to become professional investors, how to negotiate better price, better terms and conditions, how to find and identify “good deals”, etc. Nothing wrong with that either.
It’s just the two sides of any transaction, you want to know how to get your best deal whether you are the vendor or the purchaser. I don’t see why one is ethical and the other is not.
He helps stuggling agents to be more profitable.There are also people who benefit tremendously from real estate investment seminars.
Btw, I’m glad he’s helped your career.
Once and for all you are having a go at a person and a system that you no nothing about.1. I did not have a go at the Jenman system. I don’t know anything about it.
2. Yes I am having a go at Jenman because I find the articles on his website very unprofessional, written in a way to defame other people, full of emotions and low in facts.
3. In fact, I wonder how much Jenman knows about these seminar people – has he attended some of those seminars, find out enough before having a serious go at them?
If you don’t like Jenman’s articles, then don’t read them. I love them. Who else names names and gives as many facts as he does? It’s weird that you say you don’t know anything about Jenman’s system but you are sick of Jenman. Tell me some facts about the facts he has written that you have a problem with. How can you stick up for the crooks? (Unless you are one). Not an ounce of thought or compassion for the victims. If his stories are not true, why has he not been sued? Good point?
Bec
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