http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10981298%255E421,00.html
Agents defend murder home sale
October 5, 2004A SYDNEY real estate agency says it has done nothing wrong in failing to tell an unwitting Buddhist family they were buying the house where teenager Sef Gonzales brutally murdered his family.
The family did not ask about the house’s history, so there was no obligation to tell them, said the LJ Hooker agency at North Ryde which sold the home where Gonzales slaughtered his family in 2001.
And while LJ Hooker’s head office said the agency’s actions were regrettable, they were not illegal.
The Taiwanese family involved wants out of the deal, but must now rely on goodwill to get their $80,000 deposit back.
Ellen Lin, whose Taiwanese parents bought the $800,000 property in August, discovered only last month that it was the scene where one Australia’s most infamous murders occurred.
Devout Buddhists, they are refusing to move in on the grounds the house is haunted and will bring them misfortune.
Real Estate Institute of NSW president Rowen Kelly said estate agents Paul and Ereca Hinton, of LJ Hooker North Ryde, did not break any laws by not disclosing the two-storey brick home’s bloody history.
But Ms Lin is now hoping good will will prevail and she will be able to reclaim her parents’ money.
“There is no way we are moving in there,” Ms Lin said.
“My parents are devout Buddhists and they believe that if there is a murder in the house … there will probably be a really bad ghost living there and that really affects the fortunes for the next family that move in.”
Ms Lin said she had sought legal advice, but was told no laws had been broken.
Ms Lin said Mrs Hinton had shown her through the property three times, but had not told her it was where Sef Gonzales murdered his father Teddy, mother Mary Loiva and sister Clodine on July 10, 2001.
Gonzales is now serving three concurrent life sentences for the crimes.
The Hintons today defended their conduct, saying in a statement they had not misrepresented the property or its history and had answered all questions honestly.
They had told the buyers the property was being sold on behalf of a deceased estate.
But they added:”The purchasers asked the selling agents no questions concerning the property’s history.
“….there was no obligation on the selling agents to inform the purchasers of the history of the property.”
LJ Hooker head office agreed its agents were not bound by any general duty of disclosure in commercial dealings.
However it added: “It is regrettable that the selling agent of this property, although legally not bound, did not in this case inform the clients of the property’s history in line with the professional standards of LJ Hooker.”
Mr Kelly said estate agents legally only have to disclose information detrimental to the home’s structure or title, but ethically the agent could have checked if the family knew the history.
Now Mr Jenman hopes LJ Hooker’s sense of “fair play” will win the return of the family’s deposit.
“I know there are a lot of good people in the LJ Hooker organisation and if each LJ Hooker office threw in about $100 each that would just about cover it,” Mr Jenman said.
He also said he would pursue the matter with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) to see if anything could be done under the Trade Practices Act.
Yes, I would disclose.
This LJH office is one that I have been in contact with regarding some of the properties they have listed in the area. As soon as I read the article I decided to use a different agency. I have no time for operators like this.
It’s a bit cheeky to say that because the buyers didn’t ask about the house’s history, there was no need to mention it. Okay, so now every time I want to buy a house I should ask whether someone was murdered there???
The silly part is the agent probably didn’t mention it for fear of scaring off buyers, which would certainly be the case with some buyers. But I bet there would be plenty of others who would revel in the gruesome past, as long as the price was right.Keep smiling
Felicity
Is a hard one for sure.
I am not sure how I would have approached it.
Glad I wasn’t the agent involved.
Cheers,
Simon Macks
Mortgage Broker
http://www.mortgagehunter.com.au
0425 228 9853 year fixed rate – 6.69%
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I agree. It is a tough one. And at what point do you reveal it? If at all. I think to advertise the fact would scare some off but as Felicity said, some people would get off on that. I guess once someone is at the point of putting in an offer they probably should be told. Tough call for the real estate agent.
It’s not tough at all.
Any agent knows that the house history is part of what you are trying to sell. If the house belonged to a famous artist it would be disclosed with fanfare.
A murder history if 150 years old would make for an interesting sales pitch, because it is recent, it may scare a few off.
The reality is that it is impossible to hide and the agent was a fool for trying, and I am almost certain he did so at the request of the estate.
I have already considered to put an offer for $500k but my wife does not want any part in it, so no cigar. I am sure there will be others lining up for just the same.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcI can see it now, in the future, down at the agents. “We’ve also got this fabulous near new house in Ryde for rent affectionately known as the death house……interested? You can make an offer…….please?
Or when you want to offload it…..
“But sir that offer is 35% below market value surely you can offer more !â€.I wouldn’t touch it!!!
The truth always comes out in the end.
Better to disclose and attract the right buyer than to ruin your credibility by bending the truth.Darren
knock the place down – get the local catholic priest down to warn the demons off the land and bobs your uncle.
Very interesting subject. We bought our ppor 11 years ago without knowing the previous owner had committed suicide by shooting himself in the head IN THE MAIN BEDROOM. Apart from the real estate agent, many people in the area, whom we knew at the time, failed to let us know. Funnily enough when I did find out it did not disturb me as much as most people would think. We still sleep in the main bedroom every night, and for about four years I ‘felt’ the presence of this man occasionally, not indoors as you would expect but on the property (it is on 10 acres). I rarely think about it now.
Surely there are many home owners out there with similar experiences.
Eljay
I bought a house where a murder had been comited outside. THe dicount of the buy price was not because of the murder, but rather the bank was about to foreclose on them!
But yes I would disclose.
Rgds.
Lucifer_auHi all,
Tis an interesting matter – for which I suppose there is no right nor wrong answer.
One of the key points not yet raised here is the agent is employed by the vendor and surely this matter also comes into the ‘equation’ somewhere.
PS Baloo – maybe you should ring the agent and say “I will no longer deal with you because……”
Just some rambling thoughts.
Derek
[email protected]Property Investment Support Available. Ongoing and never stopping. PM welcome.
Derek, I intend to the next time they call me asking where I am at with a couple of their listings. I was actually next door to their office tonight having dinner at the Italian restaurant next door. Lights were on and door locked….
Why does every crap negative story end with Jenman??
Next time we sell a house do we now have to tell the agent we bonked in the kitchen – get over it..
I was renting out a flat in a house I owned once. It was an old house that had been owned previously by a doctor. The flat was where his surgery had been. A lady came round to look at the flat one night. We were standing in the living room and she said: ‘I really like the flat, but it’s too crowded.’ In response to my quizzical look, she said: ‘I’m a psychic. There are dozens of people in this room.’ It took me ages to get her out of there – she started talking to them.
Originally posted by eljay:We still sleep in the main bedroom every night, and for about four years I ‘felt’ the presence of this man occasionally
Eljaysounds like that goddam milkman
todays paper
qte
It’s not quite the bridge, the rock or the reef, but it may have some pull with the macabre-minded.
A British man says he has offered to buy the suburban Sydney house where Sef Gonzales slaughtered his family so he can open it up as a tourist attraction.
“I’ve spoke to the agent. We have an offer on the table. We’re waiting now to find out (if) we’re accepted,” Craig Gill told Seven Network’s Sunrise program.
“From there we will obviously look for the planning permission.”
Mr Gill, who calls himself an “entrepreneur”, said his offer matched the $800,000 a family unwittingly paid for the north-west Sydney home when agents failed to disclose the property’s grisly past.
The Lins, Buddhists from Taiwan, are now refusing to move into the home, believing it to be haunted by ghosts, and want their $80,000 deposit returned.
Mr Gill agreed the family should get their money back, but he admitted his own motives for bidding for the property were somewhat less community-minded.
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“First, I want to make some money out of the property. And by doing that I’m going to open it up as a tourist attraction,” he said.“You’ve got the Harbour Bridge, you’ve got the Sydney Opera House and I think we could use the House of Epping for example.”
Mr Gill’s business plan involves charging $2 for entry into the innocuous-looking Ryde home, where Gonzales murdered his mother, father and sister over three hours on a rainy night three years ago. He is now serving three life sentences.
Once tourists crossed the threshold, Mr Gill admitted, it remained unclear what they would actually see.
“I think all the blood may have been cleaned up and things like that,” he said.
“But at the end of the day, I think people want to see these things.”
House of horrors attractions are nothing new in Mr Gill’s homeland, whose darker tourist drawcards include the home of Jack the Ripper. Mr Gill said he once lived next door.
He acknowledged some people may oppose his plan as being in poor taste.
“It must be a horrible idea, but I’ve already got something like 2,500 people who’ve already said they would queue to go into the house,” he said.
He also admitted he might find some opposition from the property’s neighbours.
But if he convinced them the business plan would put an end to the “stopping, looking, pointing” they might go for it.
“If we can get … the neighbourhood away from the drive-by pointing and looking then it’ll be over with,” he said.
“They can all go back to a normal life.”
And if he succeeded in buying the house but council blocked his plan?
“Knock it down, start again, build another tourist attraction.”
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11000870%255E26462,00.html
See full story above, but a few quotes:
A British man today said he had offered to buy the suburban Sydney house where Sef Gonzales slaughtered his family, and open it as a tourist attraction.
But his plans may come to nothing, with Ryde Council saying the proposal would never get off the ground.
<snip>
However, Ryde Council acting general manager Sue Weatherley said the area’s zoning prohibited the house from being used in such a way.Asked if the council would consider any proposal to turn the property into a tourist attraction, she said: “It couldn’t be contemplated; it would be absolutely prohibited and couldn’t be contemplated.”
A guy wanted to do a similar thing in Melbourne and start running tours to all the sites of the ‘gangland war’ murders. Needless to say this has been met with a lot of opposition also.
Wow, imagine exploiting the death of someone else for your own personal gain. Some things really are unimaginable.
Ali G
Hate to have rental have a property have a murder or suicide in house sure most times it happens in rental properties unfortunately for landlords of properties. I could understand why does not get disclosed sometimes because this is the case I would a lot less likely to disclose and who pays for cleaning, repairs and loss rent
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