Wow what a toxic thread-lol the scammers wonder why so many people want to run for the hill when ever anyone hears the word scamway, or a pyramid scheme such as this.
The proof is in the pudding-look at how many one post 'members' have posted in this thread. Its a joke, its either the same person or a heap of scammers trying to push the bucket. Either way bugger off and go peddle your scam somehwere else….we are buying and selling property, not snake oil.
Pyramid schemes are illegal in Australia. No high profile company could get away with operating a pyramid scheme in Australia for long these days, so work it out yourself.
Recruiting methods used on us as a couple lacked up front integrity, honesty and transparency.
However, the motivational material proved useful and the journey into and out of their influence was very educational.
The system of making money doesn't suit everyone's taste.
We live and work with integrity – it's essential in all our business processes, from start to finish.
That initial deception and evasiveness spoke volumes to us and the writing was on the wall from the beginning.
cheers
thecrestthecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
Email Me | Phone Meselling motels in NSW
Hi network 21 is not a pyramid scheme. It is a company that uses Amway as its parent company. You cannot lose money by joining up. Amway is now 50 years old. The idea is you can buy your groceries, makup, jewellary vitamins over the net and delivered to your home. It you decide to sign up others to do the same, you receive back a bonuson what they buy rather than the owner of the supermarket. The business also has partnership stores involved such as Harvey Norman. The members of this group are the largest group in the world that support world vision.
The company also has a motivational section Robert Kiosaki has endorsed the company. Gilly the Australian criketer is endorsing their vitamin range this year. It is a great way to learn the skills to be a small business owner even if this business is not your style. I like to buy my groceries this way if it is helping someone above me who may be looking at earning extra money to support their family rather than the profit going to the big supermarkets. Particularly since the groceries are often the same brands that you find in a supermarket and they are delivered to my door with a 90 day back guarrentee which you cannot get anywhere else. Hope this helps"it is helping someone above me who may be looking at earning extra money to support their family rather than the profit going to the big supermarkets"
The people you are mostly helping are the owners of Amway, who dont exactly struggle to support their families. They are rich because they charge a premium on their products, and by the time everyone down the pyramid gets paid their share of the premium (thats where they get their bonuses, by charging extra to someone else, a "struggling family" most likely), how much do you think that inflates the price of products? If you want to support struggling families, donate money to a cause. If you want to make money/save money, why would you buy expensive products, and then on top of that, pay for training materials so you can learn the most effective way to lose all your friends from annoying them with Amway.There is a funny example of price comparison of Amway products at http://network21amway.blogspot.com/ that proves how expensive the products are. You also say, "The company also has a motivational section", yes, that charges it members exorbitant costs for "motivational" material, on how to sell exorbitantly priced products.
Who cares who endorses something, there are not many people who wouldnt endorse something for the right price. Look at Gillie, he endorses everything, which gives his endorsements even less value.
Posts like this make me come out of the woodwork, as they sucker innocent people in. Please take your scam somewhere else. If it is not a scam, and you are making lots of money, then you dont need to come here and defend it, nor recruit new victims. If it was good, it will speak for itself, and everybody wouldnt be calling it a scam. The problem is it doesnt speak for itself, everyone knows its a scam. Perhaps not an illegal pyramid under Australian law, not anymore, but still rips people off, and one day it will be made illegal again.
by the way Amway has nothing to do with property, so really this thread is offtopic and should be closed, promoting N21 on a property forum is worse than SPAM.
IMHO – Fair comments Marketwatch – not about property so it's off topic and way past any possible constructive or beneficial spinoff for forum members.
I'm happy to request Admin to close this thread.
cheers
thecrestthecrest | Tony Neale - Statewide Motel Brokers
http://www.statewidemotelbrokers.com.au
Email Me | Phone Meselling motels in NSW
HAHAHAHA im just gunna rip all of you cos your all probably 'Gen A' old men who are still paying off property from the 80's! hahaha
I think its funny how one minded property people as knowledgable as you wouldnt get all the facts for YOURSELVES and maybe TEST something out for YOURSELF to see if it does, doesnt, could, maybe work even slightly.
Cos i sure know that Amway turned over 8.2 Billion dollars last year (2008)
By 2012 there on track to reach 12 BILLION!
You bring another company to me that is anywhere near that, that has no overheads or disgustingly high fees and I might take a glance at it!
They are 50yrs old and stood the test of time, so probably younger than you lot on here anyway.
They are completely DEBT free, not on the stock exchange so have no problem with all the global economy garbage thats been going on and they so far have PAID out 27 BILLION dollars of bonuses.Part of that 27B is the cheques I receive in the mail EVERY MONTH ON TIME NO DOUBT!
PLUS the sign up fee WAS $180 and I believe next year will be half that!!!
So if you 'WEALTHY FREE PROPERTY GURUS' dont have the lifestyle or an extra $200 bucks to even trial something like this you gotta be joking!I just laughed when i read all these back n forth arguments on such a 'PYRIMID SCHEME' ??? you cant even spell PYRAMID let alone even know anything about one haha.
And its not a pyramid scheme otherwise i wouldnt touch it!Heres to the money hittin my account from the groceries friends and I buy at wholesale!!
Cheers and im only a 20yr old with the facts + money
What you need to consider is are you a really good sales person.
Do you have a big network of contacts and friends you can present this business opportunity to!If you push your friends too hard you can become known as that Network 21 person by your friends. And they may avoid you like the plague.
Amway has come a long way since its conception and I have an friend who is in Amway and the products they now have is amazing.
What you have to be very careful about is getting caught up in the hype.From experience you have to be very aware of on going costs !
A $1000 out of your pocket is a once off cost but what if you have to pay for as an example:
A web site each month (ongoing cost)
A credit card processing facility (ongoing cost)
A training web site (ongoing cost)
A special training phone mail box (ongoing cost)
A seminar (ongoing cost)
Bulk stock purchases so you get a discount but get stuck with the stock that you can't sellThese are some of the question I would ask
What are my ongoing costs going to be
How much do I have to sell to remain an agent
How many people do I have to sign up or arrange meetings for over what time frame to remain an agent.This type of system works on Networking.
If you can find say 4 people who are as keen as your friend is.
and these 4 people find another 4 people
who also find another 4 people and on and on and on,.
4 – 16 – 64 – 256 – 1,024 – 4,096 -16,384 – 65,536 – 262,144 – 1,048,576 – 4,194,304
So after 11 cycles of signing up groups you have 4 million people below you who if they just purchase the products for themselves and you got say 50 cents from their purchase you are earning 2 million dollars.
This is why they are pushing that you network rather than sell the products.
It really is a different mindset as you build wealth through building the network and growing it rather than from a once off sales commission structure. You would be expected also to mentor the new members under you and to help them build their network however you have to have the time in the initial stages to organise and help new members get their new members and all this takes work and time to build and develop.
You have to be able to survive long enough to build up a network and the $1000 paid is probably done to try and avoid what I have heard happens which is member burn out where the member quits.I am a burn out of another network marketing scheme but being fair and honest I did not have the time to devote to the networking and concentrated on the selling of the product rather than the networking and the ongoing costs were a killer. You really have to eat , breathe and live the network marketing way of life to succeed without burning out. It requires a great commitment over a long period of time to have any sort of hope of success.
Hi, just to answer on all of your emails at once. I have sold all of these N21 materials and now don't have any N21 materials.
A number of business owners also contacted me (MLM and non-MLM) to my surprise, asking me what kind of telco services I use for everyday business purposes. Don't know why this question came through, but anyway I use iTalkBB, where i call Australia and overseas unlimited and it charges me $30 a month fixed rate.
Here is the link: http://www.italkbb-australia.com
I paid for the device out right because I don't want to sign a contract like Telstra and optus etc. So far for 3 months, iTalkbb has been pretty good.
Anyway, i think this should be a property forum, we have gone way off the topic..
Its quite funny if you put your hand up there quite quick to say yes, then you start asking questions and keep asking questions and get them in a corner and they start stumbling and they try to move on but keep poking at them, then it shows every one in the room it is a scam
I find it rather funny that grown up people are still 'debating' if network marketing is a pyramid scheem or if it is a scam, or if it is a business.
There is a simple rule you can use and it goes like this.
Does the company SELL products or services?
EVEN IF THEY KEEP REPEATING AT NAUSEAM THIS IS NOT SELLING?
Then it is not a pyramide scheem. Pyramid scheems are like the chain letters and are a system to extract payments for no reason then recieving a bigger payment promise at the end. They are illegal.Do they tell you it is all about signing up, recruitign, never mind the product, sign up sign up?
Then it is network marketing and the trainer is an idiot.Now reflect for a moment. We have just worked out in a few seconds that all this ventures are NETWORK MARKETING.
What does MARKETING mean?
Answer:
SELLING
SELLING
SELLING
and in case you did not note it, it is about selling.So if you are good at selling, if you love selling, if you feel good about selling, take a career in selling. You can do worst than network marketing providing you are rational and realise you sing up for sales and will sign up others for sales.
If you lie about it, dont' waste your time, you will not go past kindergarden stage, where you all clap in unison to feel good about yourself.
Now think about the product. Is it badly overpriced but they tell you it does not matter because it is not about sales anyway?
Run away.Are there alternative products on shop shelvs for half the price?
Run away.If the product is unique (really not only in their own imagination)
In a market that is growing, and you love passionately dedicating years to make a vaste clientele.
Well it may even be Ok for you.otherwise.
Run away.Fast.
Tysonboss a very interesting point of view… To be honest with you im an IBO through the IDA program, and i really havent made much money at all, but i dont see that as something negative because i have not put in the amount of work required to earn the desired incomes that the Amway Buisness talks about.. As far as a Pyramid scheme let me present this to you, look at any corporations company structure for a minute, eg. Microsoft, IBM, Commonwealth Bank, Bank of America. Now you have a CEO, then their executives, plus you have a board that these people would report to for accountability purposes. you then have all the employees underneath in their respective roles all doing the same thing day in day out until they retire? am i right? My point here is that the employees of these big Corporations dont earn the same amounts of money than the CEO's and executives, but if you look at the structure isnt a corporation set out just like a pyramid?? The Ceo will get paid more than the normal employee because their role is Running the company, but the amount that they get paid is excessively higher than the normal employee, now does that seem fair to you??
The Amway Business is a business with a company structure, the difference is, is the Amway business uses the normal person to expand its vision, and rewards these people with an income that can be generated if you put in the work. You see in the Amway Business we all become our own CEO's, we purchase products from our own business and through that we earn a percentage of that purchase as income. Now does your local supermarket pay you for shopping there?? The Amway business is people based and the more people in the business doing the same thing, the bigger it Grows, Just like a Corporation.
You may not agree with what i hve just said, and if you dont then thats your choice… all that i ask is dont ruin it for other people, just becasue you think its fake!! The Amway business is real, and you can earn a great income from it just like your 9-5 job, and a few more incentives thrown in(like holiday trips). Robert Kyosaki Endorses this type of Buisness opportunity becasue he knows it works.. and if you have read his books you would know this.. Good Luck with your endeavours.
I have been to 4 network 21 meetings….
Each time, It was by pure accident. They train their recruits to not tell people what it is until youre in front of them! I'm always looking for new opportunities, so I'm always open, but MAN do I hate the business practices of amway and its affiliated partners.
"Here I am again!!! In another stupid hype meeting!!! ARGH!!!"
Im an idiot for getting sucked in four times by four different pitches, only to discover its the same damn crap, just with a new pitch.
Heres the low down, they'll give you some truths at the beginning, and then attach their business to the back end of it. Things like residual incomes, passive incomes, trading time for money, the cashflow quadrant etc etc. All true. It's the honey that makes the bitter pill go down easier. You'll become a salesman that sees your friends as cashcows.
People cross the street when they see you coming once you join an mlm. I know I do, even when I find out that someone is in it, though they've never talked to me about it! They eventually will. I've been in sales most of my life, I'm extremely hot property to MLMers…. so I get harrassed by them once every couple of months. I've learned straight away to just NOT be polite about it.
"I hate mlm, and I'll never, ever, ever be in amway."
Nip it in the bud straight away before they get a chance to be 'friendly' about it.
I just hate being in the position where you could get into an argument about wether it's a good idea or not. If I win the argument, I've just crushed their hopes and dreams of having millions of dollars in passive income. It's horrible. This is why I avoid it.
Thats my 2 cents anyway.
Here is a post to end it all:
For those who want to do MLM, good luck. But realise it's not your business – you have no shares in the business, you are controlled by 1. the company (most likely in US), 2. your country's section of the company (e.g. Amway Australia Pty Ltd), 3. your uplines and there can be multiple multiple of them. MLM can be good for learning some skills but do your due diligence about your future and don't let their motivational speakers do it for you.
For those what don't want to do MLM, I hope you get out of a job anyway, have your own business and succeed. Find a niche, find your strengths, find partners who compliment your skills but you trust each other, find investors if you have no money, find out what your exit strategies are and end goals are. The easiest money to earn is to create a company, flip it and do a strategic sale to a big player(s). Look at http://www.groupon.com – a 3-yr old company going to be sold for $5-6 billion to Google. I am working on my company http://www.ourproperties.com.au and http://www.gifang.com, looking at strategic sale or IPO at a later stage.
For those of you been bothered so many times by MLM people, here is a way to reject them:
– "I have heard of this company a while ago, my friend asked me to join, I joined already, tried, and I am still in it – but don't ask me about the compensation plans – because it's not MY business. I have my own business and wish to focus on it, and focus on it only, so…THANKS".
Forget Amway – Network 21 – whatever…..
Try this
http://www.myshoppinggenie.com/goodchoiceIt's FREE. I use it to find the cheapest price for items for my renos and other things.
I read these posts and I love the two sides of this debate, I love property, shares and the conventional methods of business, I am exposed to several conventional methods and their risks and benefits. Also five years ago I joined Amway…
Five years on I can honestly say the key to this is proactively working… In regard to those who say anyone with real business sense would not sign up. I ask why not? Also I will say that in the three months I was active I did make money, i did receive rebates straight into my bank account, and I did get some awesome products. Sure the soap scam is an inventive name however at .15 cents per use and cheaper than any other commercially sold washing powder forgive me if the three kilo box has lasted me nine months so far.But hey everyone here is a serious business person right…. So
What company has had consistent growth thought the gfc…. Has annual revenue of over 10 billion dollars and been in existence for over fifty years that is illegal. Also the other question I ask is what is the net present value of a 35000 per year income? What real estate do you Suggest I invest in to create this passive take home income. And how many years do I need to work for to get the cash flow positive property that puts 35000 in my pocket.
However I agree with you, on the surface it seems a bit seedy. . . The more successful you are in conventional business, usually the more constipated you look, the less you see your kids and the less of a social life you have. These people are excited, and seem overtly happy … They promote free holidays, free cash rewards and similar.
This is a debt free global company, they have distributed over thirty billion dollars over the past fifty years and while yes they do make a profit. And yes the top 20 percent do make more than the other other eighty…. That is the Pareto principle in action and the guys in the mail room in company x make 20 percent while to the executives make eighty percent is this a dodgy pyramid scheme too? No the executives worked really hard just like you would to build a network marketing business, they came early, they stayed late, they kissed ass, and they lost friends…. Wait that sounds just like the description of multi level marketing. So do you like the method more than the outcome, or trout come more than the method… Open minds make a difference.
To clarify I do not claim to be wealthy because of network marketing, I receive great books and development CDs that have increased my income in real estate sales and recruiting industry. The program’s do cost money to sign up. However you do receive great products worth almost the same as your Amway sign up. N21 does charge money for continuous education program, books and audio. when I worked in sales I had to find the audios and the books that would advance my career to beat the competition.
Did Sydney swans just win the grand final without a coach?or was he there every day, every training, every match helping them become the best at what they do.
Open minds make money in many ways…. Closed minds are the victims of the economy, and there is no shame in being afraid of aligning yourself with things. But seriously ninety days money back. How is that dodgy?
We were suckers with a scamway presentation when a 'friend' of our tricked us into coming around to discuss a 'business deal' we may be interested in.
When he first suggested it I straight away said 'It's not Amw*y is it? Because if so we are not interested'. He knew we were into property investing and so twisted the conversation to sound like it was related to this. Throw in the Robert Kiyosaki line and we thought he was genuine.
He came around to our house and straight away broke out the hour long presentation. About 45 pages in or so, what do you know, it IS scamway, disguised under the another name starting with N! We were really annoyed and unfortunately it has ruined our friendship as the trust was broken. I can see how people can be convinced and unless you are happy be be a low life manipulator then it probably isn't for you.
To add to this a colleague decided to quit her job in search of something closer to home. On the ferry a guy approached her who had been listening to her phone conversation (creep) to say that he owned a graphic design business with one office very close to her house. He told her he may have some work for her and so they arranged a time for an 'interview', complete with business card etc. She was very excited and spent quite a bit of time preparing. As it turns out it he was trying to rope her into Network 21…such a low life.
I think there are far more honest ways to make money for people with morals.
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