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PTN,
You trust is a business, so you can only claim a deduction for business related activity. If you travel relates to the business, then it could be claimable.
Dale Gatherum Goss says you can claim small items and one off gifts that you could not otherwise claim.
You can rent a house form your trust and the trust claim the interest etc, but if you are running at a loss you will need a HDT or other income in the trust to make it worthwhile. ATO will also be looking closely as this, but there are ways around it.
A trust can only distribute profits, not losses.
A trust could buy a car, but you may be betetr off buying it in your own name??
Terryw
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Originally posted by ctaing:Much obliged Terry.
I’m cautious and don’t have great appetite for debt at the moment. But the experts are touting it the best way forward. My current bank is not one to let up in taking more security than it needs, and I hate paying hefty LMI.
Back to reading more of your posts on LMI; and the legalities of avoiding one by finance through different sources.
Enjoy reading your newsletters, Terry, and wouldn’t mind confirmation on the LMI issue.[blush2]
CT
Hi CT
Not sure what you mean about the LMI issue?
LMI is generally only paid if the LVR exceeds 80%. However, you may have to pay it on some low docs at lower LVRs.
So if you can borrow the 20% deposit from equity in another property (eg a LOC), then you can avoid LMI. Having a trust doesn’t change this.
Terryw
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Just apply for a loan increase with your existing lender. Maybe go to 80% LVR as a LOC and have a separate loan to the first. That way you can use the funds for the deposit on the next property and borrow the remainder as another loan. Interest could also be paid from the LOC.
Terryw
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CT
With a trust the banks only need to take the security as collateral. Same as without a trust. Some banks also want to take a charge over a company if a corporate trustee is involved too – pain the the butt, but I don’t think it affects things much.
Terryw
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Very interesting Dr X.
Funny about agents calling. A friend of mine sold his unit privately, he put an ad in the paper and specified “no agents”. For the next week he was called by no one but agents trying to get a listing.
Terryw
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Thanks for that Mcdeyess
Terryw
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Hi CT
My understanding is that the loan needs to be in the unit holder’s name – which is not necessarily trustee. However, I have seen a few client come to me with it all setup incorrectly, they have the hybrid setup, but have the loan in the trustee’s name, so won’t have any tax advantages.
From what I have seen, if the property in creases in value, the trust has equity. The trust can then borrow more money for further investments. If the individual unit holder wanted to borrow more money, they would probably have to buy more units.
I am not sure of all the finer details of HDT as I am not an accountant and do not use one.
Terryw
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I am not a solicitor, but would wonder if it is necessary to list either of you as named beneficiaries. Usually trust deeds are worded so that the trustee and appointer and their relatives are automatically beneficiaries. Not sure what legal effects listing or not listing will have.
There may be tax effects too. eg. if you forget to distribute income one year, some trusts are worded so the income is automatically distributed to the main beneficiaries. Probably because the trust would have to pay tax at the top rate. There may be other effects too of which I am not aware.
Better run this one by an accountant?
Also, if your trust is going to be borrowing any money, sometimes some banks was personal guarantees from any adult beneficiary listed in the trust. Something to keep in mind too maybe.
Terryw
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You may save these fees by selling yourself, but an agent may be able to sell it for a higher price and quicker. This needs to be considered as well.
I have found sales commissions to be around 2.5% of sale price. Some charge extra for advertising, others include it in the fee.
Terryw
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PTN, why is it going to be hard? You can just have one trust. The trustee will just chose who to distribute to each you.
Only a individual or company (or combinations) can be trustees. Another trust cannot. But one trust can be a beneficiary of another.
Terryw
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Hi Jennifer
Sounds like an excellent plan.
The original owner will have a mortgage on the property, but you will be paying out this mortgage, so it should not be a problem. Just think of it like you have loans with Bank A and Bank B, if the price has increased you just refinance the lot with bank C and pay out bank A and bank B.
Terryw
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Advertising fees? or cleaning expenses?
Terryw
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Sounds like your in Vic. I beleive vendors are legally require to prepare a statement consisting of various things about the property – building approvals, plans, rates, various utility connections etc.
Terryw
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Originally posted by Mortgage Hunter:Originally posted by ptn:Thanks guys,
I don’t want to approach an accountant or a lawyer at it will cost me $$$ just to say hello.
Thanks TerryW, you’ve given me a bit more confident in buying the family trust.
Regards
ptnI bet you that a mistake will cost you more.
I think you are focussing on small amounts of money and losing sight of the big picture. If you proceed without getting an accountant to sign off on what you do then you are setting yourself up for a fall. Just from reading your posts I doubt very much that you are your own best advisor.
My Doctor friends have a saying. “Any Doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient.” and at least they are qualified to give the treatment.
Lastly can you explain the benefits of using a standard family trust over using a hybrid discretionary trust? If you cannot then please seek professional advice [blush2]
True. I like to think I know what I am doing. The trust deeds from Lawcentral are excellent, but what if you don’t know who to put as appointor – or how many, or trustee. Or worse, getting the wrong trust. Changning things later can be expensive as Simon says.
Terryw
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Originally posted by ownahome:From a purely investment point of view a company is a seperate entity. This means it has its own borrowing power seperate to the directors and shareholders. When low doc loans.. LMI are invloved you can effectively double your borrowing capacity before you need to source private finance or higher rate non-LMi low doc loans.
Hi Ownahome
I agree that companies are separate legal entities. But cannot see how a campany can increase borrowing capacity. Virtually all lenders will require personal guarrantees from directors. This limits things. I am not 100% certain, but presume that on low docs the maximum exposure levels will include existing loans that the directors have as well as the companies. ie you do not each get a maximium exposure level.
Originally posted by ownahome:Your maximum tax rate is 30%. If you are doing sub-div, flips or reno with purchase to sale under 12 months you are paying only 30% as opposed to most likely 48.5% tax in individual name. So you use the company for short term projects and personal or trusts for longer term to enable the 50% CGT saving.
True, but if you were using a trust in this instance, you would have the additional flexibility of distributing income to other benefificaries on lower tax rates – who would get the 50% CGT reduction. As a last resort you could distribute to a company to cap the tax rate.
Terryw
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Originally posted by ptn:Hi Ownahome,
Your advice is very valuable. I am still pondering between a company (expensive setup and ongoing) or a family trust. I need to know the best way forward given the following scenario:
My family of 4 + my mother in law (5 trustee) . We buy an IP using this new family trust. If for some reason, we decided to remove my mother in law out of the family trust, do we pay stamp duty on the IP or are there some complex issue. Further more, if I add my father into the trust which already has an IP; what complication am I in for?Kind regards
ptnYou have to seriously consider many issues.
One is loans. If you have 5 trustees, then the loan will be in 5 names. This will affect borrowing capacity for subsequent borrowings. Maybe consider one or two trustees – leave off those without an income. The others can still benefit and contribute.
Terryw
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Originally posted by JohnSmith:The trust owns the property. What you do with beneficiaries or trustees does not affect who owns the property, and therefore there are no stamp duty issues.
Regards
JohnInspired Finance
(02) 9944 7776Thats not necessarily true. If you add or remove beneificiaries to a trust, this could cause a resettlement to occur. This is when the ATO deems a new trust to be formed and all the existing trust assets transfered (ie sold) from the old to the new. This means stamp duty and possibly CGT on everything the trust owns.
What John probably means is the trust deed is worded in such a way that you can just stop distributing to one person whithout having to actually remove them from the trust.
Terryw
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Hi Bob
Tax Consequences are mainly CGT related. You can only have one main residence per time. You can only claim a property as your main residence once you have lived in it. So in this situation you could claim either as your main residence. You will have up to 6 years in which you can continue to claim the first one as your main residence and not pay CGT if you sell. I guess what all this boils down to is, after up to 6 years you can decide to sell one and not pay CGT.
Better change this loan to interest only though to maximise deductions.
2. If you are only going to be borrowing $200,000, then the fact that HSBC will lend you more is irrelevant. Chose the lender that suits your situation best. 7.10% is a good rate though.
Terryw
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Do you intend buying more? If so a trust is probably worth considering now.
Terryw
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Same in NSW I beleive!
Terryw
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